UK crime falling

Old Jul 19th 2008, 1:19 am
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Default Re: UK crime falling

Originally Posted by Grayling View Post
Rubbish.....it is not like that where I live.

Perhaps you should move to a nicer area.
Not rubbish for those living there. Try saying that to people living in places I've lived, in several parts of Liverpool and Manchester. I was lucky enough to be able to leave. Moving to Bournemouth at 22 was like moving to a foreign country. I felt like I was on holiday. People in deprived areas generally have no upward mobility. They often don't have the choice to live where you live, or anything like it.
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Old Jul 19th 2008, 11:57 am
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Default Re: UK crime falling

Originally Posted by ShozInOz View Post
Not rubbish for those living there. Try saying that to people living in places I've lived, in several parts of Liverpool and Manchester. I was lucky enough to be able to leave. Moving to Bournemouth at 22 was like moving to a foreign country. I felt like I was on holiday. People in deprived areas generally have no upward mobility. They often don't have the choice to live where you live, or anything like it.
That's true .. but look at the comments in the context of where we are at ... an Expat site. One can hardly be condemened for presuming that if someones on here posting about how awful the UK is that they intend to emigrate, that they are lacking the education or the funds to relocate.

Social mobility is a process, and everything possible should be done to provide people with the opportunity. It's hardly like the poverty cycle is unique to the UK though is it. Perhaps its easier to hide from the issues in Aus, the US and Canada because you can just build further and further away from the problems. Doesn't mean to say exactly the same issues dont exist - in fact the States is considerably worse but that's a different story.
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Old Jul 19th 2008, 3:27 pm
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Default Re: UK crime falling

Originally Posted by ShozInOz View Post
Not rubbish for those living there. Try saying that to people living in places I've lived, in several parts of Liverpool and Manchester. I was lucky enough to be able to leave. Moving to Bournemouth at 22 was like moving to a foreign country. I felt like I was on holiday. People in deprived areas generally have no upward mobility. They often don't have the choice to live where you live, or anything like it.
Very true, we were not in a position to move in the UK either for our own reasons.

One thing I have learned though, when you become a victim of crime - it doesnt matter where you live, it doesnt matter how the press report the statistics and it certainly doesnt matter if your mate 20 miles away has never been affected by yobs/hoodies/crime etc.

What matters is what happens to you and your family, and how it affects you.

Bugger the stats, and stuff everyone else because when it is you, you could be in the nicest country in the world - but your whole perception of your own safety changes.
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Old Jul 19th 2008, 3:50 pm
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Default Re: UK crime falling

Originally Posted by Professional Princess View Post
Very true, we were not in a position to move in the UK either for our own reasons.

One thing I have learned though, when you become a victim of crime - it doesnt matter where you live, it doesnt matter how the press report the statistics and it certainly doesnt matter if your mate 20 miles away has never been affected by yobs/hoodies/crime etc.

What matters is what happens to you and your family, and how it affects you.

Bugger the stats, and stuff everyone else because when it is you, you could be in the nicest country in the world - but your whole perception of your own safety changes.
Very true. Police stats are almost worthless as criteria change constantly. Probably the best stats are survey types - British Crime Survey, UNESCO survey, WHO survey, but the latter two tend to compare between countries. I can well beleive that burglary, car theft, etc is decreasing, mostly due to cheap elecrical goods, and better design of car security and audio equipment. I'm far from convinced that the stats ring true for crime against or by younger people.

I'd prefer a personal perspective on an area any time. You can't put a price on feeling safe in your own area, wherever it is. It would be nice if people in many countries in the Western world would reclaim the streets at night for everyone. Once people fear the streets it's a downward spiral. I feel very lucky here that we feel very safe outside and inside (not to say there is no risk), and mostly in the village we left, but I've lived in other areas where I felt the need to arm myself outside an inside. It took me a while to shake off that paranoia and relax a bit when I moved to better areas (in the UK and here). Looking back this is mad but sadly I can understand why some young people carry weapons. For many it is due to fear. They are not all monsters, they are just kids who are freaked out at the crazy world they live in.
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Old Jul 19th 2008, 6:09 pm
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Default Re: UK crime falling

Originally Posted by ShozInOz View Post
Very true. Police stats are almost worthless as criteria change constantly. Probably the best stats are survey types - British Crime Survey, UNESCO survey, WHO survey, but the latter two tend to compare between countries. I can well beleive that burglary, car theft, etc is decreasing, mostly due to cheap elecrical goods, and better design of car security and audio equipment. I'm far from convinced that the stats ring true for crime against or by younger people.

I'd prefer a personal perspective on an area any time. You can't put a price on feeling safe in your own area, wherever it is. It would be nice if people in many countries in the Western world would reclaim the streets at night for everyone. Once people fear the streets it's a downward spiral. I feel very lucky here that we feel very safe outside and inside (not to say there is no risk), and mostly in the village we left, but I've lived in other areas where I felt the need to arm myself outside an inside. It took me a while to shake off that paranoia and relax a bit when I moved to better areas (in the UK and here). Looking back this is mad but sadly I can understand why some young people carry weapons. For many it is due to fear. They are not all monsters, they are just kids who are freaked out at the crazy world they live in.
This is exactly what has to be educated against though, anyone, probably young people especially are at a much higher risk of being injured or killed when armed, be it by the weapon they are carrying or someone elses.
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Old Jul 19th 2008, 10:54 pm
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Default Re: UK crime falling

My issue with Brown being PM is that we didn't vote him in I can't wait to vote him out though
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Old Jul 19th 2008, 11:58 pm
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Default Re: UK crime falling

Originally Posted by Tootsie Frickensprinkles View Post
This is exactly what has to be educated against though, anyone, probably young people especially are at a much higher risk of being injured or killed when armed, be it by the weapon they are carrying or someone elses.
Yes, a young, scared person with a weapon is one of the most dangerous types of person, especially if intoxicated or with a group of others. But education isn't anywhere near enough to change it. These kids know what damage they can do, but have become desensitised to it. (I really don't think violent media helps here at all.) Conditions have to change before the person will - families, educuation generally, jobs opportunities, culture, facilities.... It's impossible to educate a kid on one of Glasgow's estates when turf gang culture has been entrenched for so long, and straying off their 4 or 5 streets could be fatal (Dispatches documentary on this here in 4 parts http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjiIsHezZjw&feature=user). Massive concilliation is needed in such cases with a huge investment, including spending on youth facilities. The documentary shows are a swimming pool was built on one of the Glasgow schemes, but most couldn't use it because it was on one particular bit of turf controlled by one gang. I remember being gutted as a kid when 'our' field was built on. We played football on it most nights, in the warmer months anyway, then it was gone. Many kids now have never even grown up with a place to go that is 'theirs'.
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Old Jul 20th 2008, 8:11 am
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Default Re: UK crime falling

For every year that I have lived on the Gold Coast, Australia, I have known one person via family or friends that's been killed, shot and survived or had a gun pointed at them.
I never experienced this at all, EVER, in the UK and as far as statistics appear to indicate, the UK has the lowest incident of crime compared to the rest of the world because the British police do not carry guns.
Long may that continue because Australia is a lot like the US and gun crime is rampant.

I was so shocked earlier this year. I live in quite an upmarket area and on my morning walk the road was blocked by police and forensics. It's funny but I immediately thought to turn around and walk home and an even funnier thing was the thought that instinctively went through my head was 'I don't want to get shot' even though I had no idea what had happened.
When i got home, a friend rang to see if I was still alive because a drive by shooting had been carried out just streets from where I live.
Drive by shootings happen regulary and the police shoot people regulary. I don't need to vist America, it's visited me!:

Also yards from where I live is Australia's elite Bollywood millionaire set in a whole island of fake Florida style multi million dollar homes. Some interesting people live in these homes related to the mafia and underworld and some peculiar group called 'finks".

Well hey.Guess who's heading back to her humble UK roots next year? I;ve never seen crime anywhere like here considering it's a much smaller population.
Britain is bound to have some crime but aren't the latter knife statistics mostly amongst recent immigrants and their own politics? It's not the Brits fighting themselves is it?
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Old Jul 20th 2008, 8:39 am
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Default Re: UK crime falling

Originally Posted by cricket1 View Post
For every year that I have lived on the Gold Coast, Australia, I have known one person via family or friends that's been killed, shot and survived or had a gun pointed at them.
I never experienced this at all, EVER, in the UK and as far as statistics appear to indicate, the UK has the lowest incident of crime compared to the rest of the world because the British police do not carry guns.
Long may that continue because Australia is a lot like the US and gun crime is rampant.

I was so shocked earlier this year. I live in quite an upmarket area and on my morning walk the road was blocked by police and forensics. It's funny but I immediately thought to turn around and walk home and an even funnier thing was the thought that instinctively went through my head was 'I don't want to get shot' even though I had no idea what had happened.
When i got home, a friend rang to see if I was still alive because a drive by shooting had been carried out just streets from where I live.
Drive by shootings happen regulary and the police shoot people regulary. I don't need to vist America, it's visited me!:

Also yards from where I live is Australia's elite Bollywood millionaire set in a whole island of fake Florida style multi million dollar homes. Some interesting people live in these homes related to the mafia and underworld and some peculiar group called 'finks".

Well hey.Guess who's heading back to her humble UK roots next year? I;ve never seen crime anywhere like here considering it's a much smaller population.
Britain is bound to have some crime but aren't the latter knife statistics mostly amongst recent immigrants and their own politics? It's not the Brits fighting themselves is it?
I have never understood the appeal of the Gold Coast. There's an awful lot of drug dealers, hit men, hookers, strippers, underworld, plastic surgeons and entrepreneurs (get rich quick in property etc) inhabiting the place. Think of a combination between LA and Las Vegas and you're about there.

I would not in a million years want to bring up teenagers down there given the amount of drug abuse and prolific sex industry going on (and yes, I do have first hand experience - not me though I hasten to add!).

It's a vaucous, shallow, empty shell of a place beneath the supposed "glitz" and "glamour", with an extremely seedy underbelly.
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Old Jul 20th 2008, 8:55 am
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Default Re: UK crime falling

Absolutely all true. I didn't come here voluntarily I might add. I was brought here by an ex husband who ran off to experience the lifestyle you describe. I'm working my rear end off trying to get home.

Nearly made enough money
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Old Jul 20th 2008, 9:00 am
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Default Re: UK crime falling

Originally Posted by ShozInOz View Post
Yes, a young, scared person with a weapon is one of the most dangerous types of person, especially if intoxicated or with a group of others. But education isn't anywhere near enough to change it. These kids know what damage they can do, but have become desensitised to it. (I really don't think violent media helps here at all.) Conditions have to change before the person will - families, educuation generally, jobs opportunities, culture, facilities.... It's impossible to educate a kid on one of Glasgow's estates when turf gang culture has been entrenched for so long, and straying off their 4 or 5 streets could be fatal (Dispatches documentary on this here in 4 parts http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjiIsHezZjw&feature=user). Massive concilliation is needed in such cases with a huge investment, including spending on youth facilities. The documentary shows are a swimming pool was built on one of the Glasgow schemes, but most couldn't use it because it was on one particular bit of turf controlled by one gang. I remember being gutted as a kid when 'our' field was built on. We played football on it most nights, in the warmer months anyway, then it was gone. Many kids now have never even grown up with a place to go that is 'theirs'.
Sorry, clearly Im not explaining myself well enough. I'm not talking about young people that go out carrying knives with the intent to be agressive and cause trouble.

You said you can understand why kids in fear on the streets were carrying weapons - I took this to mean because they were in fear of being attacked. And we do see it, to some extent. Carrying a knife, in self defence, puts you at far more risk of being injured or killed with either your own weapon ir someone elses.

That is what we have to educate against - and we are - the police are already working with youth community groups and self defence experts, going into the inner city schools and teaching our kids about the dangers of knives, how to react in the face of gang attack, conflict management, peer group pressure, etc etc. It is of course a crying shame that it has come to the point where we have to do this, but evidently we do.

The group of people you are referring to are an entirely different kettle of fish. How we deal with the issues of Glasgow East, Tower Hamlets and the likes of our most deprived enclaves has got to be, and does seem to be, pretty dam high on the list. It's the big picture problem you described and its not going to go away over night, if ever, really.
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Old Jul 20th 2008, 9:07 am
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Default Re: UK crime falling

Originally Posted by cricket1 View Post
For every year that I have lived on the Gold Coast, Australia, I have known one person via family or friends that's been killed, shot and survived or had a gun pointed at them.
I never experienced this at all, EVER, in the UK and as far as statistics appear to indicate, the UK has the lowest incident of crime compared to the rest of the world because the British police do not carry guns.
Long may that continue because Australia is a lot like the US and gun crime is rampant.

I was so shocked earlier this year. I live in quite an upmarket area and on my morning walk the road was blocked by police and forensics. It's funny but I immediately thought to turn around and walk home and an even funnier thing was the thought that instinctively went through my head was 'I don't want to get shot' even though I had no idea what had happened.
When i got home, a friend rang to see if I was still alive because a drive by shooting had been carried out just streets from where I live.
Drive by shootings happen regulary and the police shoot people regulary. I don't need to vist America, it's visited me!:

Also yards from where I live is Australia's elite Bollywood millionaire set in a whole island of fake Florida style multi million dollar homes. Some interesting people live in these homes related to the mafia and underworld and some peculiar group called 'finks".

Well hey.Guess who's heading back to her humble UK roots next year? I;ve never seen crime anywhere like here considering it's a much smaller population.
Britain is bound to have some crime but aren't the latter knife statistics mostly amongst recent immigrants and their own politics? It's not the Brits fighting themselves is it?
Crime with the immigrant populations and usually more often the criminal elements that manage and exploit these people is one thing, and its separate.

The recent spate of teenage knife crimes appears to be an emerging trend in gang culture. Take away these numbers and I dont think were seeing anymore attacks in the general populous than before.
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Old Jul 20th 2008, 9:26 am
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Default Re: UK crime falling

Originally Posted by rabsody View Post
I have never understood the appeal of the Gold Coast. There's an awful lot of drug dealers, hit men, hookers, strippers, underworld, plastic surgeons and entrepreneurs (get rich quick in property etc) inhabiting the place. Think of a combination between LA and Las Vegas and you're about there.

I would not in a million years want to bring up teenagers down there given the amount of drug abuse and prolific sex industry going on (and yes, I do have first hand experience - not me though I hasten to add!).

It's a vaucous, shallow, empty shell of a place beneath the supposed "glitz" and "glamour", with an extremely seedy underbelly.
Yeah, but apart from that it's a lovely place
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Old Jul 20th 2008, 10:04 am
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Default Re: UK crime falling

Originally Posted by tictac View Post
Yeah, but apart from that it's a lovely place
Yeah it sure is. I love nothing more than driving through it on my way to Byron
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Old Jul 20th 2008, 10:17 am
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Default Re: UK crime falling

The Gold Coast has a very 'me first' attitude and the value system is very different to mine. There are some good people here but ultimately you have to choose whether to be a shark or a goldfish mentality in order to survive. Think the sharks are winning.

I'm neither. I'm a beaver. I'm beavering away like crazy to get back to my Vicar of Dibley life in the UK.

As far as youths and knife culture goes, I think it's all part of a 'cool' trend with a high recruitment level aimed at kids who feel they have to fit in somewhere. There are a lot of vulnerable, easily influenced young people out there. That's how they get tangled up with drugs. Knives appear to be another way to get approval and fit in.
If kids don't fit into their families, they look to fit in elsewhere. Gang's become a surrogate family seemingly. Someone to please and live upto.

Not that I'm an expert. Just my observation of where some kids get their approval from. There are a lot homeless youngsters on the Gold Coast.
Some of the Aussies have brutal parenting standards.
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