Slightlysunny

So when we set off for our sunny greek island life had been unkind to us in the UK and it seemed like the glimmering rainbow on the horizon that would save us from our miserable existence.
We knew people here and associated it with happy holidays and sunshine (I'm sure a familiar story), I'd read negative threads and thought 'that will never be me' how could anything be wrong in paradise ? What's wrong with these people ?well it's not going to be all negative but I'll share some highs and lows.
I was advised early on not to mix too much with expats, of course sounds like sound advice I mean I was going to be partying with the locals drinking raki and listening to bazuki not sitting in bars bemoaning the shortcomings of my host nation so this advice would not apply to me........
we were advised not to buy property /business incase we didn't like it. Me, could this advice really be for me the one planning on making other people's holidays wonderful and achieving that distant far off look of serenity adopted by the Greeks?
I wanted to live remotely, get chickens and grow vegetables. Maybe even make some chutney. All the stuff that my new relaxed life and home where going to make possible.
well my new found home certainly did appear to be beautiful and the views to die for. My Greek landlords very accomdoting and helpful. We were making friends slowly and did indeed achieve some of the relaxed solidarity and peace of mind we were hoping for. Then we started talking to people, no WiFi meant frequent trips out to cafés to contact people back home. We were treated with interest as new comers by mostly the expat community. We soon realized we were paying almost double the rent of most people in the same area. No wonder our landlords were so helpful. We'd also signed a contract which meant we were tied in for some time, it became such a conversation topic I began tactfully changing the subject when it came up.
so hereally goes big subject friends. So our hopes of slipping into and being accepted by Greek society where soon dashed. Although some are friendly, in company you would have little clue what is going on and again the only greek people really wanting to be in our company where either half English or our landlords. Now don't get me wrong I am very friendly and outgoing and have a big circle of friends in the UK but this is different. You're looking at a small amount of people who have moved here, the majority have moved because they are not happy with there experience in the UK (not all obviously ) and are going to have baggage as well as possibly guilt about having left friends and family in the UK. You're 'pool' of friends to choose from becomes relatively small and you spend time with people you wouldn't in the UK. So 18 months on we have maybe 4/5 good friends and 10 or so associates.
to be continued. ....

Slightlysunny

I'm new to this so not sure we if I should continue this here or start another thread but here goes for now.
so here we are a very small handful of friends and remember those you do make will have lives and friendships of there own. They're not sitting there waiting to welcome newcomers and have seen many people come and go over the years so are probably slightly wary of forming strong bonds with people who often end up leaving. The other thing being that you'll find most people are retired, there are also reps etc that have married Greeks. In this we are early 40''s and have a daughter. I've kept details vague to protect privacy. The majority of the married to Greek English are women, meaning a 40 year old man mostly ends up being friends with retired men, not ideal. You end up stalking people in lidl with stupid comments like 'ooo he looks about your age' to your husband. Now comes my daughter so 18 months on she has a slight grasp of the language but she was a 'popular ' child in the UK with some strong friendships. Here she now has a handful of half English friends, the Greek kids are not unkind by any means but they stick together and why shouldn't they do? They've formed strong friendships too! So my popular and social girl is borderline lonely, believe me we've tried as much as we can play dates and parties. So here goes again I'm borderline lonely too, there's a whole bunch of tourists out there let's go and make friends. it's almost like playing tinder for kids 'why don't you approach that one darling she looks like she's on her own, oh no hold on there's a big group ' anyone listening must wonder what on earth we're up to. So on a good day she'll make a friend and I might too. Keeps us happy for a day and particularly her whom I thought would have an absolutely wonderful life here. She does however get to go to the pool and beach all the time so not all bad. Just got to hope you don't come off as creepy/weird in the meantime � ����
I'll talk about work in my next thread. Just hoping that my brutally honest reflection will help others.

Jerseygirl

Please do not open multiple threads...keep it to one thread. May I ask...is this a book/blog etc you are writing?

Slightlysunny

OK thanks, I guess advice on what to expect but condensed if that makes sense?

NiHao

Interesting read, please keep posting.

Jerseygirl

It does make sense.
Ooops I forgot my manners...welcome to BE.

Slightlysunny

So as promised I'll cover the realities of work next. As I said previously we were planning on buying a bar but as always sound advice has proved correct .
Now I have several health problems and hadn't factored that in, I mean it's probably sounding like I'm a total fantasist here but in my rose tinted version of this scenario I thought they would probably improve. Some have and some have got worse. For example arthritis is better, much better but ibs is about twice fold sorry if this is this too much information but I did promise to be honest. To make matters worse the medication I require is not available here so I rely on stock piling whilst back or people bringing it over/sending it. This can be tricky with a slightly dicey postal system I often end up eeking out my supply and symptoms worsening. Anyway onto the actual subject in hand.
Working, there are people here with university degrees working in restaurants as waiters. I know that's the story all over the world but the opportunities genuinely are limited here. I think the mainland holds better opportunity but people return home after university and there degree will be all but useless. So my husband and I both at the disadvantage of not speaking much Greek found our qualifications pointless. It's not like we weren't totally aware of this so it's not a moan just a generalised fact to pass on.
Options are waiting, hire cars/excursions, bar that kinda thing. So we take these jobs. Everyone works 7 days a week and it's hot! Magnesium capsules become your new best friend! Oh and you'll be working for between €2-3 an hour, if you're really lucky you might get slightly more. Now I've had 3 jobs and I'm not sure how to describe Greek bosses but I'll give it a try. I worked in pretty high stress environment in the UK and I'm pooring beer thinking how hard can it be? The interview process in itself is like that for a brain surgeon but alarm bells didn't ring yet.....I get the job but have to get a 'health book' involving a blood test, chest xray and stool sample because I'll be working with food/drink. This kinda makes me laugh after seeing exposed wires, people not wearing crash helmets and goodness knows whatever safety standards that aren't great that this part is so thorough. I've often thought it's survival of the fittest here but I'm going off track. Anyways so I start the job I have a period of training which is unpaid. It seems to go on forever so I question it after 2 weeks, my boss says 'they're doing it for me' yep because free labour is terrible for the employer right. He basically suggests I should do another 2 weeks and I refuse, I've taken my husband for back up at this point because actually a man is still more respected here. That will come back to bite me on the bum later. So I start officially a few days later, well my goodness it's a whole different story once I'm getting paid and my boss has a split personality I swear. So one minute he's nice and I can almost have a joke with him, the next he's like thunder and lightening all at once. I'd guess if work place bullying was a thing here I could have sued him. So most days I go home and cry until one day I cry at work and pretty much walk out. By this point I'd done nearly a months work, I got paid €90! absolutely no joke! If there is anyway of getting out of paying you they will. Here's were it bit me he said I should have carried on the 'training ' and it wouldn't be a problem, even told me that if he didn't like me I would have been gone already! High praise indeed.
You would expect your boss to shout at you here, you wouldn't get a please or thank you. They will openly tell you you're rubbish so come prepared with thick skin and high self esteem!
By this point my husband has started working too for just over €2 an hour, 7 days a week 8 hours a day. So our rent bills are pretty cheap, less than €500 a month. So we're covering food/bills and rent but remember this is only 5/6 months of the year. I'm not sure how you're supposed to pay for the other 6 months � ���� he's generally treated OK but his boss would easily have him doing another 2 hours a day for free if he didn't stand up for himself. Like I've said not moaning just advising.
I've decided the best way to make moneyis doing some Internet work. It seems another potential source of income in the winter is house/pet sitting or craft fairs if you're that way inclined! I make a mean scotch egg so might buy a chest freezer and start stock piling, along with that chutney that I still haven't made!
we're looking at options going forward and considering going back to the UK in shifts to work for agencies, then return with the money. In some ways it seems the best of both worlds in others it means spending long periods apart/alone in an already lonely place I'm not sure how that will work out but I'll post on it as we progress with that.
I know that some people here work 12 hours or more a day, often don't even set foot in the sea all summer but I guess it's how good you are at managing time and if you have enough energy left.
guess that summises my experience of working here so far.

Slightlysunny

Food- I absolutely love Greek food and am a real home cook from scratch girl as a general rule but this really does become something you miss and crave. The foods of home.
Relatively speaking compared to the income I find food here very expensive. I've always been good at sourcing cheap but good quality food and trying to use methods to make the cheaper cuts taste as good as possible. It's not that food is anymore expensive than the UK unless you're buying imported goods from the 'British range' however the income is lower. So a tin of baked beans or heinz tomato soup would set you back about €1.50 a tin for example. However you can buy a bottle of wine for the same price as a bottle of coke.
You can easily make you're tastes from home, a shepherd pie or roast and the vegetables are very reasonable especially if you use local markets. Sometimes I just miss popping a ready made hunters chicken from Morrisons in the oven (not that you could afford that luxury here) or a quiche from lidl and some microwave new potatoes. Every dish seems to require a lot of preparation although lidl do sell a lasagne (passable) and frozen pizza's (borderline passable) if you really can't be bothered. Cooking in the heat and sometimes eating requires a towel around your shoulders . Honestly don't know how people work in kitchens here!
occasionally we'll treat ourselves to some greggs bakes from the frozen section in our local British food shop. They cost €5 for a pack of 4 as do most other convenience foods along the same lines . It's heaven though! I used to go to greggs probably once a week and although I thought I'd never say it I do miss it! I've become a dab hand at homemade Macdonald's, KFC, Chinese, Indian and apple turnovers (another craving ) but it's not quite the same . The nearest decent Chinese is an hours drive, how I miss a good chicken ball! Like I said I really didn't think I'd miss any of it prodomanantly being a home cook but there's definitely something in that saying about absence making the heart grow fonder!
The other thing I miss is decent bacon and sausages. You can buy them but again it's expensive. So a big bag of cheap (and I mean cheap) sausages would cost about €10 and bacon similar. The Greek bacon would suffice for a club sandwich or to add to pasta but goes almost like cardboard in a sandwich.
Meat is expensive at the butchers 2lb of mince is €10 but if you shop in lidl the same amount is about €4. Ab supermarket has started doing ready cooked chicken for €5 like the spit roast ones in asda and it's big news here with the lack of convenience food.
They tend to eat every cut of meat here we were given sheep's intestine by our landlord. Also don't be surprised to see a pigs head or the literal anatomy of an animal in a pack displayed as it was when inside the animal. My daughter nearly became a vegetarian after our first trip to the butchers here. Rabbit will have hair left on the foot to prove it's rabbit not cat and for some reason they thought it was hilarious when I asked for duck, the butcher wondered off giggling 'papi, yinekka thelis papi ' meaning the woman wants duck. Oh well, best not ask for that again !it was going to be one of my home made Chinese efforts .
Raki is very cheap €5 will buy a litre bottle and €3.50 a litre bottle of wine. Beer can be as low as 60c a can but depends on offers. If I'm absolutely honest I've found no beer or wine here I like other than British /American beer and imported wine but a splash of lemonade (lime for beer) can make them palatable.
I think that's it for food. If you have any questions on any of this please feel free to ask.

BristolUK

Nice read.

I loved my Greek holidays, didn't really care where as long as there was enough to do, places to see, somewhere to cycle to, but it would have been one of the last places I'd want to live. Two weeks twice a year was great, but...

There's been enough in the news over the last few years about the economy and people not paying due taxes and the like, so unless working for a major organisation life is likely to be somewhat haphazard. Of course that might appeal to some.

Your title needs changing I think. You've correctly identified some aspects relevant to other countries - over qualified people working in basic employment, missing comfort foods etc - but much of your experience seems Greek specific rather than a reflection of life abroad.

Greek Islands were my favourite places to holiday but I enjoyed the South of France and Spain too. For a life, I'd want the extras the latter two would provide. A tad more civilised in terms of roads, plumbing, accessible healthcare (not having to travel for hospital, for example)...stuff like that. Wouldn't have to be luxurious, just more than the basics.
Taverna chairs and tables look ll nice and rustic and everything, but sit on one for 20 minutes and you soon feel them sticking in the backs of your legs.

I imagined myself taking an early retirement, living frugally, and that obviously ruled out Nice and surrounds, but Spain looked affordable. I was planning on cashing in on the equity in my UK house, buying a place in Spain, learning Spanish before making the move and then going when I felt I could achieve it. I'd researched property prices and even thought about buying a 2 unit property with a view to some rental income for part of the year.

I'm sure I could have achieved it in Greece but didn't feel it would offer enough and I was convinced I could do it in Spain.

No sooner had I got myself in the frame of mind to retire early and move abroad, I met a Canadian woman, married her and moved to Canada instead.

It's a completely different living-abroad-truth to living in Spain or Greece though.

Novocastrian

I agree. Something like :"The truth about living on a Greek Island with rudimentary language skills" might do.

I've also no idea what the thread is doing in the MBTTUK forum. Europe surely?

Jerseygirl

If the OP wants the title changing I can do that.

BuckinghamshireBoy

Slightlysunny this is indeed a good read, please continue to post.

I originally had Crete on my list when we decided to quit Switzerland, based on many happy holidays spent there, climate, cost of living, the beauty of the White mountains, but finally had to reject it due to potential 'social suicide' - neither of us know anyone there apart from our favourite Taverna owner and his family, but that hardly constitutes a social circle.

Slightlysunny

Yes please if it makes more sense? I'm new to all this so thanks for any feedback � ����� ����� ����

Slightlysunny

Yes please if it makes more sense? I'm new to all this so thanks for any feedback � ����� ����� ����

BristolUK

Sometimes people looking to emigrate are referred to MBTTUK for reasons why others have returned as a potential warning.