Grahamu

I realize that there is already another thread on the new Transfer of Residence form/process but thought I would still start this one so these points don’t get lost in a general topic discussion.

Although we are not planning on moving back to the UK from Canada until in 2018, I thought I would try filling out the new ToR online form with some dummy information, to better understand it. As a result, my feeling is that the form is probably fine if your circumstances are straightforward but, if like us, that is not the case, then it leaves me with a lot of confusion and unanswered questions.

I thought I would post my thoughts here, not expecting answers/ideas (although they would be welcome) but in case anybody else has similar confusion.

Let me very briefly explain our situation.

We left the UK around 20 years ago, living firstly in New Zealand and for the past 16 years in Canada. We have always done a lot of animal rescue work and as a result have a large number of rescued pets, many of which are special needs, that we will be moving back to the UK with us. However, this does complicate the process as follows:

• It is pretty much impossible for us to try and sell our home here while all of the pets are still in it
• Nobody would be mad enough to rent a home to us, either here in Canada or in the UK

As a result, we will need to phase our move back to the UK something like this:

• Purchase a new home in the UK
• My wife will move back to the UK with some of the pets
• I will remain in Canada with the remaining pets whilst we sell our home here
• Sometime in the process, we will ship back those of our belongings that we want to keep
• When our Canadian home sells, I will move to the UK with our remaining pets

Based on the above, the following are the areas of confusion that I have with the new process/form:

1. Will we be allowed to fill out multiple copies of the ToR for different phases of our move? For instance, one for when my wife moves over with some or our animals, another for when our belongings are shipped, and another for when I move over with the remaining pets? Or, are you only allowed to fill out a single ToR per family? Obviously, when my wife moves over, dates etc for my move will not be known.
2. One of the questions asks if your partner/family are moving with you and if not, why not. However, to me, the implication seems to be that this is asking if they are ever moving not whether they are moving now or at a later date. I am sure it is not uncommon for some families to move to the UK in a staggered manner.
3. Another question asks if during your stay outside the EU you already own your home in the EU. For us, the answer will be YES and NO. No we did not own the property for most of the time we lived outside the EU, but yes, we did purchase and therefore do own the UK home whilst we still lived in Canada.
4. For the pets, you need to provide their pet passport details. However, unless I am mistaken, as much of the preparation/clearance for pets occurs just days/weeks before they are shipped, I am not sure if such detailed information would be available far enough in advance to submit this form to customs in time to get clearance.
5. To further complicate the situation, as we will be bringing in more than 5 pets each time, we are not able to use the ‘quick’ pet import process and need to bring them in using the ‘commercial’ process/paperwork. Not sure how this meshes in.
6. Another thought I have, is how does the information provided in the ToR impact the determination of UK residency for tax purposes. For instance, if my wife were to move to the UK in, say, March 2018 just before the end of the tax year, then by my calculations she would not qualify as a UK tax resident until the 2018/2019 tax year. However, I am wondering whether recording on the ToR a transfer of residence date in March might impact that.

In summary, it seems as if the simplest process for us would be to submit one ToR in my wife’s name for the pets that will accompany her and our shipped belongings, perhaps saying I am not moving with her but will be at a later date. Then, when our Canadian house sells, submit a second ToR in my name for the remaining pets, again saying she is not moving with me because she is already there. But at this time, it is not clear if this process would be acceptable.

kirstyp

hi Graham,

Wow, quite a complex situation you've got going on there! As ToR is so new HMRC may not have provided clear guidance on each of these areas yet that give a black and white answer, so I would strongly suggest contacting the Customs Helpline on 0300 200 3700 or by email on [email protected]

Grahamu

Thank you for the suggestion Kirsty. I haven't seen that email address before so I will definitely get in touch with them. Out of interest, are tso.co.uk a part of the UK Customs or Government as it comes up as The Stationery Office?

Thanks again,
Graham

mstiggiewinkle

Hiya,
Not sure if you have started the process yet. My cat is not coming out until the end of the year, but my shipper advised me to put her on the TOR now. I double checked and he was adamant. (my stuff is going sooner and separately)
I dont have a response yet just filed last night but can update.

Grahamu

Hi. Thanks for the feedback. No, we haven't started the process yet and it now looks increasingly likely that we wont make the move back until early 2018.

I have just this week been in touch with the animal transport company that we are thinking of using to get their thoughts on how the new ToR process will impact the plans we have been making.

I'll pass along any feedback I get from them.

Cheers,
Graham

mstiggiewinkle

You are welcome. Not sure what pets you are taking back. I am just taking my one cat. Be sure to check out tthe DEFRA regs, my vet was super helpful too. I did the (specific) microchip and the rabies vaccine. Of course i still have to step through the Vets Certificate process but it all seems simple.
I plan on flying her with me, or soon after, later on in the year.
FYI the shippers i am using are door to door - they pack/unpack for you, the whole shebang.
Will post more soon..

mstiggiewinkle

Regarding TOR, am in the middle of the process now.
Its worth going to the website and taking a look. The form is filled in online then you print and email or snailmail. It doesnt save online. So basically you can go start filling it in and be familiar with the questions without worrying if you need to change something later.
It does ask two pertinent questions:
1. Reason for return - (e.g. Work or Education or Other) and asks for an address.
2. Two signed lists of goods. - it does not specify how accurate or detailed this list needs to be, which was a bit stumping. As my shipper is packing for me I cant be 100% accurate.
You will need your NI number to proceed. Also, be prepared to send supporting docs e.g. Copy of passport, addresses, letters of intent etc along with the signed lists.
I also included my pet and her chip number (required) even though she is not leaving yet.

I cant compare this to the C3 (?) form, as i only got to this point in my process post the change this year.

mstiggiewinkle

Update:

I just got off the phone with HMRC, approximate hold time 10 mins.
They confirmed receipt of docs.

I had them go over my support docs (as i understood the TOR had changed recently) and was told they had everything they needed. (I.e. No goods value listed at this point).
That it was a 10 day to 2 week process going forward.

The super nice lady also asked about my cat, and whether she was travelling with me at this point. I replied that i would be returning to collect her later. Her response was "thats fine, you can use the same TOR number at that point" which is why my mover was adamant that i list her.

I hope this is helpful for people. I feel somewhat relieved each step of the way!

cdfergus

It requires an NI #????? I do not have one! Have been talking with HMRC for 2 weeks now and I never applied for one in UK as I left when I was 18. Does it give you the option of saying you don't have one?

Chris

quiltman

I thought as a UK citizen you got issued an NI number when you are 16? Probably I'm wrong but here's some info, scroll down for how to apply for an NI number. https://www.gov.uk/government/organi...urance-numbers

I assume customs want this as I thought the new TOR referred to UK citizens coming back to UK? Bet I'm wrong again! Still, one of our better informed members will likely be along later with up to date advice.

mstiggiewinkle

Exactly. TOR is to AVOID paying import tax on personal belongings of a British citizen returning to live.
I do not recall if there was an option for no NI number. TBH it took me several tries to remember mine. I was young and foolish and just eloped.

The best thing about the TOR is you fill it in ONLINE, then PRINT it. It does not save info, nor does it auto matically send to anyone. So, you can efff it up and it doesnt matter, until you print it and fax, or scan and EMAIL it.

The way i verified my NI number was to go to the gov.uk site and register online with them. This did need me to know my number in advance, but it did allow me to verify it before i used it on my TOR. The added bonus is now my SS/NI profile is current online.

I will post that link shortly.

If you dont have a NI number, you will need to call the NI folks and have them find it for you - a whole other process. I remember getting mine at either 16 or 18, which exactly, i cant be sure.

Good luck.

mstiggiewinkle

This is the link to update/access your NI records.
You need to create an online account.
You need your NI Number to create an online account.

https://www.gov.uk/check-national-insurance-record

mstiggiewinkle

Here (again) is the direct link to apply for the TOR, including links to all guidelines for the application process, that should help with many questions.

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...r-relief-tor01

taramu

Do you have a phone number for them? I didn't realize I was supposed to do this before I moved, I mailed and emailed my application and haven't gotten a word back and my things arrive on the 30th...

kirstyp

Try 0300 200 3700, this is the number they list for further information.