AllenSmith81

** Deleted as the post as now been posted**

Pulaski

That is the problem right there, and perhaps was the undoing of the 2014 referendum because anyone who worked for a major corporation, or who recognized that Scotland needs its major corporations, was rightly afraid that an independent Scottish government would have jacked up taxes.

There was also the strong liklihood that the much-vaunted Scottish banking and finance sector was going to have to decamp south because an independent Scottish government wouldn't have the resources to protect and regulate such a relatively large financial sector. Just look what happened to the banks in Ireland, ..... and Cyprus, .... and Iceland. In fact the collapse and rescue of RBS and HBOS was a stretch for the British government - the collapse of two major banks in Scotland would have caused a catastrophe!

AllenSmith81

I am afraid this was also propaganda of the "Better Together" Camp. Only one major organization said they would relocate to England and its majority shareholder is a conservative party donor. Many other organizations stated that it would be business as usual. Sure independence would bring uncertainty, which is not good for business, and this is where the Yes camp had a real problem. The UK Government would not discuss the issues independence would create in advance of the vote so that issues such as the currency we would use, what the terms of a shared currency deal would be, how pensions would be worked out across borders. If these discussions could have taken place then the people of Scotland could have made an informed decision on the future of the country.

It has to make you wonder what they were so afraid about to refuse to have these discussions.

I worked for one of the largest corporations in the world, who will remain nameless, and they were not afraid of Scottish independence. In-fact, I may have been still working for them had we voted yes!

Pulaski

Ah yes, Westminster conspired again to do down the Scots. There's your problem right there! There wasn't going to be a "shared" currency. An independent Scotland could, as a practical matter, use any currency it wants, so like Ecudor or (effectively) Bermuda it could have used the USD, or it could have unilaterally used the GBP, or for that matter, the Turkish Lira or the Malawi Kwacha, but there was nothing to discuss ahead of the referendum because there would have been nothing to discuss after the referendum either!

Moses2013

Well the banking thing in Ireland, Iceland had nothing to do with independence. The banks were just lending too much and that had driven prices up. Even simple factory workers were building huge new houses and driving the most expensive cars. Ireland has done pretty well and attracted lots of investment with low corporate tax. Scotland could do the same and obviously learn from other little countries. And personally the collapse of the banks was the best thing that could happen to me I now have a nice house and low mortgage, but if I would have bought during the boom I'd be the loser. Other friends of mine have also benefited from the crash. We all have jobs and there was plenty of job creation. Even our company is building another office and Apple will start building a new data centre close to where I live.

AllenSmith81

There is a big problem with this argument. The Pound, which by the way started in Scotland before England, is a UK asset and as such if Scotland became an independent nation and the "divorce" was amicable then there would need to be discussion on how we would divide these assets. Failure to enter into these negotiations and reaching an agreement would result in the rUK being left with the entire UK debt, which on the size of the economy left in rUK would make the debt position of rUK worse than that of Greece. I just do not see the UK government being that dumb they would have entered into negotiations about the separation and made sure we took 9.1% share of the UK debt.

But if all that failed, sure lets create our own country with no National debt and the economy the size of ours Scotland would have been one of the richest countries in continental Europe.

Giantaxe

Although the reasons for the banking crises in Ireland, Iceland and Cyprus were all poor lending of some sort or other, they do highlight the risks of having an oversized financial sector in relation to GDP, the exact situation Scotland would find itself in unless its banks decamped from there. As Pulaski points out, bailing out the Royal Bank of Scotland was a stretch for the UK; for Scotland it would go way beyond that.

The unemployment rate in Ireland is still 10%, almost twice the level in the UK (5.6%).

Moses2013

The true unemployment in the UK is also lot higher than 5.6 and you can't go by the unemployment rate alone, because there are far too many factors to consider. Of course there are many people who can't find jobs in their field, but there are still many people with huge mortgages who bought during the boom and they won't take lower paid jobs. Until their homes are repossessed, they are better off unemployed. Ireland is also a lot younger and youth unemployment will always be high in rural areas. Anyway, it has nothing to do with Scotland.

AllenSmith81

Moses2013,

I think you are becoming my irish best friend :P

Giantaxe

Lol.

By that kind of argument the true unemployment rate will be a lot higher in Ireland too. Plus, Ireland has seen net emigration since '08 whereas the UK continues to see significant immigration. Whatever way you want to cut it, Ireland is still dealing with the fallout from having to bailout its oversized banking sector, whereas the UK economy - despite its own banking issues and the "austerity" that the SNP like to moan about - has done significantly better since the financial crisis of '08.

This from the poster who's raised Ireland several times in this thread...

not2old

to continue with this discussion .....

why is it some folks in Scotland want independence from the rest of the UK ...one or two good reasons please?

As for my comment as an 'Englishman poster' - I do not speak for anyone other than myself, as that is my single viewpoint only & it is only my opinion that if the majority of Scots want out, then I say give too them & not to try to do the 'better together' campaign.

Next referendum will likely be after the next general election IMO - do you see it sooner than that?

I wonder if it was an all UK vote for Scottish independence how the vote would go - would you care to give your personal viewpoint on that?

not2old

I did not know Moses was Irish?

not2old

is there anyone on board that agrees or disagrees with the following?

Experts call for no new independence referendum for 15 years | Herald Scotland

Pulaski

I agree. The uncertainty of perpetual recurring referendums will be damaging to the Scottish economy no matter which side of the independence argument you stand.

not2old

I agree with you also, yet Sturgeon leaves the door open

Scottish independence: will there be a second referendum? | Scottish independence News | The Week UK

with the following comment

Will there be another referendum on Scottish independence soon?

"Nicola Sturgeon has refused to be drawn on when she would like to see the question of independence put to the Scottish people again. During the election campaign, she ruled out a public vote immediately after the election, but raised the prospect of another referendum following the Scottish parliamentary election in 2016. "That is another matter," she said, "we will write that manifesto when we get there. I will fight one election at a time." Her comments were met with boos from sections of the studio audience, with one person shouting: "The people have spoken – they said they didn't want independence."

As I understand it - A referendum, only if Westminster agrees to it