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Should I stay in UK or go to Canada??

Should I stay in UK or go to Canada??

Old Jun 9th 2009, 3:39 pm
  #31  
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Default Re: Should I stay in UK or go to Canada??

Originally Posted by R I C H
Virtually no humidity here makes those temperatures very pleasant. BTW, I said consistent, not constant
I was just making clear that "harsh" is a matter of our own tastes.

I've been to the Okanagan in high summer. Close to hell on earth for someone like me who doesn't like extreme heat, dry or moist!

It's a struggle to say it, but if I had to choose between very cold winter and searing summer, I'd live with the damn snow and ice. It is possible to bundle up and live a life. My only option in the BC interior would be lurking in air conditioning.

I actually like the Victoria climate, apart from its tendency to get up in the high 20s now and then.

I think this is the point of a lot of the discussion here. When we're thinking of making a big move for a "better lifestyle" we need to figure out what conditions suit our personal concept of "better, best", and then figure out where they exist. And it isn't usually a country. It's an area, a location, even a niche.

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Old Jun 9th 2009, 4:34 pm
  #32  
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Default Re: Should I stay in UK or go to Canada??

Originally Posted by Mummy in the foothills
This is my observation from talking to those who have been to Canada some of those who have come back others remain.
Thats the problem with second hand opinions

Ive lived in Ontario 11 years...Uk acquaintances tell me I'd be mad to think about moving back.

Everyone will have a different opinion...but just to correct some factual inaccuracies. (not necessarily yours)

Taxes...are less in canada if you include NI contributions / equivalent EI and CPP. NI is not capped in the UK, but it is in Canada. I payed ~20% overall on $70k income last year, less than I would in the UK.

Sales tax, 13% in Ontario, 5% in Alberta, 17.5% in UK...you dont think about it when its hidden in the ticket price I guess. TV license, Car tax disk, Congestion charges, duty on fuel etc etc... its all tax by any other name. For example I pay $72 (£40 ish) for my car sticker, there is no TV license etc.

household costs in canada (groceries, utilities etc) seem to be pretty similar overall...you pay less for some stuff, more for others. We need more heating obviously, but we are better insulated...

Sunshine...the winter is cold in most of canada, but its certainly sunnier. I may be in a minority of one, but I prefer the canadian climate and the seasonal contrasts (+30 summer, -20 winter). I shovel in Ontario maybe a dozen to 20 times a year, its snows, you shovel, its good for several days most of the time, sometimes I go weeks without shoveling. If you dont want to do it, pay someone else to clear the drive. The summers are hot and humid....but thats why so many more people have pools and air conditioning than in the UK. With the climate in (most of) canada, you just have to accept it and embrace it.

I see no difference in health care, although I expect its as much reliant on specific location here as it is in europe. Mind you, being employed in a job with benefits is a great leveller when it comes to drug costs etc.

Work / life balance is a tricky one...less vacation, but less stress to be in need of 6 weeks vacation...On balance I can live with it...


I think (in general) its those who come to Canada to be with canadian spouses that find it hardest; If you started with the idea that you wanted to live in Canada, rather than came to canada for other reasons, then you can probably find a bit that ticks your boxes. Its such a vast and diverse country that its really only things like UK history and family and friends that its not able to provide somewhere, and I think most people considering emigrating are aware those things will be missing, but none of us know how we will react to their absence until we take the plunge.

I never left the UK because I disliked it, and I enjoy visiting for a few weeks to catch up with family and friends, but ultimately Family and friends have their own lifes to lead and I realise that the catching up phase would soon pass once the novelty had passed. After a few days I start to see the overcrowding, the expense of home ownership, or running a car, the litter and graffiti, and more antisocial criminal aspects of life there that seems to be far more widespread than in Canada and so on, and I am ultimately glad to be getting on a plane back to my quiet life in Canada. If you can afford to live in a nice leafy suburb of Surrey then maybe its a different perspective, but as a family we would have to give up far too much to be able to do that, and to be honest I dont envy my brother and his million pound house there one bit. Just too many people too crowded together for me now.

My other brother is visiting at the moment, and its noticeable to me just how automatic it has become for them to assume that someone out there will try and nick there things...For example, when out and about in my neighbourhood stuff gets locked in the trunk even if they are only going to be gone for a second... it probably seems like a sensible precaution to them (and some reading this), but to me its odd as we seldom even bother to lock the car doors at night...its just a totally different mindset thats happened over the intervening years I guess.

Last edited by iaink; Jun 9th 2009 at 5:08 pm. Reason: dreadful spelling
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Old Jun 9th 2009, 5:03 pm
  #33  
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Default Re: Should I stay in UK or go to Canada??

Good post Iain
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Old Jun 9th 2009, 6:03 pm
  #34  
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Default Re: Should I stay in UK or go to Canada??

Originally Posted by R I C H

You didn't - I was making the point that in my part of Canada, the 'harsh weather' is actually not dissimilar to California's from May to October. Do you describe yours in the same terms?
I do consider our summers pretty harsh actually we are not strangers to many days/weeks of 40 to 45 and that get very uncomfortable and limits outdoor time. You can go naked and still not get any cooler, if it's wet or cold, you can wrap up and be comfortable.
I don't think friends and family were feeding me a load, they told me their impressions based on their life in Canada.
But like the US it has many climates I'm sure.
Anything above the northern states of the US is bound to get some pretty cold winter weather, it's nature.
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Old Jun 9th 2009, 6:34 pm
  #35  
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Default Re: Should I stay in UK or go to Canada??

Originally Posted by Mummy in the foothills
But like the US it has many climates I'm sure.
Anything above the northern states of the US is bound to get some pretty cold winter weather, it's nature.
Thats making the assumption that cold weather is a bad thing? its pretty tough to ski in warm weather, or make snow angels with your kids, or watch the fun they have sledding or skating on the rink you made in the back yard...


Its the variety over the seasons that I like so much where I am...going from skating for a couple of months in the winter to swimming on the same flat bit of lawn for a couple of months in the summer.

But you do have to have the mindset that you are going to embrace it or else you might well pretty quickly go nuts...


Of course I seem to recall that 13 states in the US are actually North of the southernmost Canada/ US border, and most of the Canadian population lives in the southern areas of the country, within 100miles of the US. Parts of California actually extend further north than the most southern parts of Canada....

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Old Jun 9th 2009, 8:18 pm
  #36  
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Default Re: Should I stay in UK or go to Canada??

Originally Posted by iaink
there is no TV license etc.
But the UK licence costs the equivalent of about 20 dollars a month. Over here, you pretty well have to pay for satellite or cable. I think basic cable here is about $35 a month.

On health costs, we have to pay for a lot of things in Canada that are covered by the NHS. Some prescriptions can easily get over $100. Therapies, chiropody, optometry etc often cost $30 or more an hour. Dentistry isn't covered at all.

On car related costs, distances are much less in the UK and the mileage per litre on most cars is much better. I think insurance is less, too. So I don't know how that works out over a year of regular driving to work, shopping, and a few longer trips.

In the places with colder winters -- most of Canada -- heating costs are probably more, and in the hot summer areas -- a lot of Canada -- air conditioning can shoot up prices there, too.

It might be interesting to do some direct comparisons. We're in an apartment so I can't help on that.

Then if we buy anything from the States, which is often where the most interesting selection of mail order goods is, couriers ding us for brokerage fees at the border, or Canada Post collects the GST and charges us $5 for the privilege.

On brokerage fees, UPS once sent me a bill for $25 on a package I'd received. A friend had sent me some nuts. Americans use UPS casually and don't understand how it works across the border, and the sneaky people don't ask for the money when they deliver the item. They bill later.

I hadn't eaten them, so I phoned and told them to take them back. If I had eaten them, I'd have told them to take them back in their altered state!

I love the idea of being able to mail order something, perhaps even have it delivered the next day, and with no surprise extras.

On general prices, my impression when we were in the UK last was that most things were in the same range as prices here before they ding the GST and PST on them at the cash register. But I just find that so irritating, even after all these years. I wish they would bury it and tell me on the price lable what I'm going to pay.

To me, irritating things are costs. Or to put it another way, I'll pay a bit more to be free of them.

I don't think for most people cost of living is a big reason to move to Canada, unless a person can get a higher paying job, of course. There are plenty of clear differences that will either be better or worse.

Bev.
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Old Jun 9th 2009, 8:43 pm
  #37  
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Default Re: Should I stay in UK or go to Canada??

Originally Posted by Bevm
But the UK licence costs the equivalent of about 20 dollars a month. Over here, you pretty well have to pay for satellite or cable. I think basic cable here is about $35 a month.

On health costs, we have to pay for a lot of things in Canada that are covered by the NHS. Some prescriptions can easily get over $100. Therapies, chiropody, optometry etc often cost $30 or more an hour. Dentistry isn't covered at all.

On car related costs, distances are much less in the UK and the mileage per litre on most cars is much better. I think insurance is less, too. So I don't know how that works out over a year of regular driving to work, shopping, and a few longer trips.

In the places with colder winters -- most of Canada -- heating costs are probably more, and in the hot summer areas -- a lot of Canada -- air conditioning can shoot up prices there, too.

It might be interesting to do some direct comparisons. We're in an apartment so I can't help on that.

Then if we buy anything from the States, which is often where the most interesting selection of mail order goods is, couriers ding us for brokerage fees at the border, or Canada Post collects the GST and charges us $5 for the privilege.

On brokerage fees, UPS once sent me a bill for $25 on a package I'd received. A friend had sent me some nuts. Americans use UPS casually and don't understand how it works across the border, and the sneaky people don't ask for the money when they deliver the item. They bill later.

I hadn't eaten them, so I phoned and told them to take them back. If I had eaten them, I'd have told them to take them back in their altered state!

I love the idea of being able to mail order something, perhaps even have it delivered the next day, and with no surprise extras.

On general prices, my impression when we were in the UK last was that most things were in the same range as prices here before they ding the GST and PST on them at the cash register. But I just find that so irritating, even after all these years. I wish they would bury it and tell me on the price lable what I'm going to pay.

To me, irritating things are costs. Or to put it another way, I'll pay a bit more to be free of them.

I don't think for most people cost of living is a big reason to move to Canada, unless a person can get a higher paying job, of course. There are plenty of clear differences that will either be better or worse.

Bev.
No obligation to get cable or satellite, CBC, CTV, CBS, NBC etc all available over antenna in mos tof the habitabel areas...just no one does..


Most skilled worker immigrants will have a job with benefits that cover at least 80 of most medical expenses

Insurance in the UK is less, but to buy a new car is generally more. My civic here was $21k, in the UK, same spec £18k! at least 50% more. Distances are further, but its more low stress cruise control stuff, and an oilchange at the dealer is closer to $50 than £100

As I said..more heating (and cooling) costs, but better insualtion etc is more of a norm (R24 walls, R45 roofs). Canada is probably more overall, but then you would expect that given the climate

You learn to avoid UPS and FedEx, and deal only with those who will ship by USPS. My experience is that Canada Post then collects maybe half the time, if that, and its still only 13% plus a $6 handeling fee. Its not like its a major full time expense though....

Try importing a saxophone from the US into the UK some time...then you learn about real pain! Duty and Tax (on the cost plus shipping expense), plus handling fees of a higher magnitude of order Its a big country, even with in province it can take days. Cant be avoided without extreme expense.

I agree cost of living is probably not the main thing driving people one way or the other, although more property for less money seems a popular incentive. As far as tax in the sticker price goes..they tried it...people wanted to know how much the government was taking...so tomatoe tomehto I guess...people like whats familiar. After 11 years I guess I dont care strongly one way or the other, it just is what it is.
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Old Jun 9th 2009, 9:24 pm
  #38  
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Default Re: Should I stay in UK or go to Canada??

Originally Posted by Bevm
But the UK licence costs the equivalent of about 20 dollars a month. Over here, you pretty well have to pay for satellite or cable. I think basic cable here is about $35 a month.

On health costs, we have to pay for a lot of things in Canada that are covered by the NHS. Some prescriptions can easily get over $100. Therapies, chiropody, optometry etc often cost $30 or more an hour. Dentistry isn't covered at all.

On car related costs, distances are much less in the UK and the mileage per litre on most cars is much better. I think insurance is less, too. So I don't know how that works out over a year of regular driving to work, shopping, and a few longer trips.

In the places with colder winters -- most of Canada -- heating costs are probably more, and in the hot summer areas -- a lot of Canada -- air conditioning can shoot up prices there, too.

It might be interesting to do some direct comparisons. We're in an apartment so I can't help on that.

Then if we buy anything from the States, which is often where the most interesting selection of mail order goods is, couriers ding us for brokerage fees at the border, or Canada Post collects the GST and charges us $5 for the privilege.

On brokerage fees, UPS once sent me a bill for $25 on a package I'd received. A friend had sent me some nuts. Americans use UPS casually and don't understand how it works across the border, and the sneaky people don't ask for the money when they deliver the item. They bill later.

I hadn't eaten them, so I phoned and told them to take them back. If I had eaten them, I'd have told them to take them back in their altered state!

I love the idea of being able to mail order something, perhaps even have it delivered the next day, and with no surprise extras.

On general prices, my impression when we were in the UK last was that most things were in the same range as prices here before they ding the GST and PST on them at the cash register. But I just find that so irritating, even after all these years. I wish they would bury it and tell me on the price lable what I'm going to pay.

To me, irritating things are costs. Or to put it another way, I'll pay a bit more to be free of them.

I don't think for most people cost of living is a big reason to move to Canada, unless a person can get a higher paying job, of course. There are plenty of clear differences that will either be better or worse.

Bev.
Bev I've been itching to come in on this,you have said just about everything i wanted to say ....but i could not of put it as nicely as you have
I pay probably the same here on groceries as i did in Canada...with one big difference we get alot more of exactly what we want here and thoroughly enjoy it .
I have the same car here as i had in Canada and i paid, for fully comp insurance £97...compared to $1300 in Canada....My highest utility bill for a mth here, which includes phone/internet/gas and electric, £169. I carn't remember what my highest in Canada was now but it was def alot more then double....
As for TV i certainly dont begrudge paying tv licence of £142.50 per yr, for around 40 stations on free view....expecially after experiencing Canadian tv And yes we had cable at $35 per mth.

The one thing i will say in favour of Canada is BC basic medical care was for the 4 of us only $108 per mth and we do pay around £320 per mth NI here but that includes the UK equivalent of EI, EI in Canada was extra...

Mummy in foot hills, your not wrong in what you say parts of Canada are like that...but you wont ever win if you dare to say anything negative about Canada.....Generalising is only accepted if you are talking about the UK "OK"
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Old Jun 9th 2009, 9:38 pm
  #39  
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Default Re: Should I stay in UK or go to Canada??

Originally Posted by iaink
No obligation to get cable or satellite, CBC, CTV, CBS, NBC etc all available over antenna in mos tof the habitabel areas...just no one does..


Most skilled worker immigrants will have a job with benefits that cover at least 80 of most medical expenses

Insurance in the UK is less, but to buy a new car is generally more. My civic here was $21k, in the UK, same spec £18k! at least 50% more. Distances are further, but its more low stress cruise control stuff, and an oilchange at the dealer is closer to $50 than £100

As I said..more heating (and cooling) costs, but better insualtion etc is more of a norm (R24 walls, R45 roofs). Canada is probably more overall, but then you would expect that given the climate

You learn to avoid UPS and FedEx, and deal only with those who will ship by USPS. My experience is that Canada Post then collects maybe half the time, if that, and its still only 13% plus a $6 handeling fee. Its not like its a major full time expense though....

Try importing a saxophone from the US into the UK some time...then you learn about real pain! Duty and Tax (on the cost plus shipping expense), plus handling fees of a higher magnitude of order Its a big country, even with in province it can take days. Cant be avoided without extreme expense.

I agree cost of living is probably not the main thing driving people one way or the other, although more property for less money seems a popular incentive. As far as tax in the sticker price goes..they tried it...people wanted to know how much the government was taking...so tomatoe tomehto I guess...people like whats familiar. After 11 years I guess I dont care strongly one way or the other, it just is what it is.
In 2007 i paid $52000 for a brand new Mini cooper S..........In 2008 back home i paid £18285 for a brand new mini cooper S

Newer houses in the Uk are fully insulated/ dbl glazed......The house i owned before we went to Canada had 3 ft thick walls...the best insulation i've ever come across, but then it was built in 1738 l...guess it was built to last.
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Old Jun 9th 2009, 10:32 pm
  #40  
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Default Re: Should I stay in UK or go to Canada??

Originally Posted by sans
Bev I've been itching to come in on this,you have said just about everything i wanted to say ....but i could not of put it as nicely as you have
I pay probably the same here on groceries as i did in Canada...with one big difference we get alot more of exactly what we want here and thoroughly enjoy it .
I have the same car here as i had in Canada and i paid, for fully comp insurance £97...compared to $1300 in Canada....My highest utility bill for a mth here, which includes phone/internet/gas and electric, £169. I carn't remember what my highest in Canada was now but it was def alot more then double....
As for TV i certainly dont begrudge paying tv licence of £142.50 per yr, for around 40 stations on free view....expecially after experiencing Canadian tv And yes we had cable at $35 per mth.

The one thing i will say in favour of Canada is BC basic medical care was for the 4 of us only $108 per mth and we do pay around £320 per mth NI here but that includes the UK equivalent of EI, EI in Canada was extra...

Mummy in foot hills, your not wrong in what you say parts of Canada are like that...but you wont ever win if you dare to say anything negative about Canada.....Generalising is only accepted if you are talking about the UK "OK"
Sans

I found my situation very similar to you. We spent 8 years in rural Alberta/Ontario. I have kept a check on our costs back in the UK over the last 3 years. I agree new cars are cheaper in Canada for North American built vehicles, but second hand cars in the UK are good value, but the I found running costs/fuel/insurance higher.
We not not need Cable etc with digital TV.
Food cheaper for us as we close to TESCOs and other major supermarkets instead of having to shop a "one family own" supermarkets in rural Canada.
We found "Cheaply made goods" cheaper in Canada than the UK i.e Walmart/Zellers etc.
We did not decided to move back to England on living costs. I would say overall living costs for most in Canada would be lower than the UK. In my situation we found Canada more expensive, because my income was significantly lower than what I earnt previous and currently do in the UK.

I believe its important to decide why you want to leave Canada and return to the UK.

We realised that big houses/trucks/toys do not make you happy in the end.

I posted a number of times why we returned:
Long working hours and little time off work for family life, few weeks a year holiday, no family/close friends, winters too long, summers too short/hot.

hudd
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Old Jun 9th 2009, 10:46 pm
  #41  
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Default Re: Should I stay in UK or go to Canada??

Originally Posted by sans
In 2007 i paid $52000 for a brand new Mini cooper S..........In 2008 back home i paid £18285 for a brand new mini cooper S
Curious to know if at the time you thought $52k for a Mini really offered you the best car at that price point in Canada? The cost of living here can't really have been much of an issue for you if you were prepared to splash that amount on a small car.
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Old Jun 9th 2009, 10:49 pm
  #42  
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Default Re: Should I stay in UK or go to Canada??

Originally Posted by hudd
Sans

I found my situation very similar to you. We spent 8 years in rural Alberta/Ontario. I have kept a check on our costs back in the UK over the last 3 years. I agree new cars are cheaper in Canada for North American built vehicles, but second hand cars in the UK are good value, but the I found running costs/fuel/insurance higher.
We not not need Cable etc with digital TV.
Food cheaper for us as we close to TESCOs and other major supermarkets instead of having to shop a "one family own" supermarkets in rural Canada.
We found "Cheaply made goods" cheaper in Canada than the UK i.e Walmart/Zellers etc.
We did not decided to move back to England on living costs. I would say overall living costs for most in Canada would be lower than the UK. In my situation we found Canada more expensive, because my income was significantly lower than what I earnt previous and currently do in the UK.

I believe its important to decide why you want to leave Canada and return to the UK.

We realised that big houses/trucks/toys do not make you happy in the end.

I posted a number of times why we returned:
Long working hours and little time off work for family life, few weeks a year holiday, no family/close friends, winters too long, summers too short/hot.

hudd
Yep we were also on alot less money in Canada then we were are now......We was seriously struggling on Canadian wages to make ends meet and there would never of been any money left for the" having a nice life" bit...
Canada or at least VI was absolutley stunning But once that honeymoon period was over and the reality of it all set in.....It just wasn't worth the struggle for us

Hudd would you of trusted a Canadian second hand car
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Old Jun 9th 2009, 10:59 pm
  #43  
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Default Re: Should I stay in UK or go to Canada??

Originally Posted by R I C H
Curious to know if at the time you thought $52k for a Mini really offered you the best car at that price point in Canada? The cost of living here can't really have been much of an issue for you if you were prepared to splash that amount on a small car.
I've only ever driven small cars, only having short legs The mini was bought when we first arrived after dredging the streets for something small enough for me, to be comfy driving.....

Had i of had a crystal ball and have known what was waiting around the corner for us, the car would not of been bought....But hindsight would of been a wonderful thing.
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Old Jun 10th 2009, 2:19 am
  #44  
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Default Re: Should I stay in UK or go to Canada??

Unless you have a very specific lifestyle reason for wanting to move to Canada, the benefits of moving over staying in the UK are not worth it. Both countries have their pluses and minuses, at the end of the day you are even.

And don't let anybody convince you that the weather in Canada is good. In fact it is absolute crap in most parts of the country. You like skiing? Great, catch a flight to the Alps or Andorra, sure as hell beats shoveling snow in -20 degree temperature for it. It is almost the middle of June, and people here are still wearing jackets and sweaters, even in the afternoon.
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Old Jun 10th 2009, 1:18 pm
  #45  
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Default Re: Should I stay in UK or go to Canada??

Yeah, and is this typical June weather Adrian?

(No, its not)



Everyone has there own reasons for posting. Trying to get a balanced picture of what its like to live here from the shotgun spread of opinions is a thankless task.

A lot of things, like the weather for example, are very subjective. Factual things, like the tax rates, which is where I came in, are not.

I know from personal experience that when you come back to the UK for a short time all your old friends are keen to catch up with you and its a bit of a whirlwind for a week or two. But is it likely to stay like that for the OP, or will the reasons that made them want to leave the UK in the first place start to come to the fore again sooner or later? I have my suspicions, but really its for them to decide.

Last edited by iaink; Jun 10th 2009 at 1:21 pm.
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