Rose tinted specs or a reality check
Jun 19th 2008, 9:45 am
#1
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2008
Location: Southern Spain
Posts: 224
Rose tinted specs or a reality check
Having read everyone who's homesick for the UK's posts, and all the things everyone remembers with affection, my question is it like that in reality?
For instance lots of people seem to remember the UK more in an Enid Blyton halcyon days type of way than the reality that it can be in certain parts of Blighty.
My home in Herts is a very nice place, a little market town that's changed very little over the past 30 years and as close to English perfect as you can get,..... but the changes that have taken place seem to have been rapid within the last 3 years. The influx of Eastern Europeans, the petty rules and regs of the local council, eg; people being fined for leaving the lid half closed on their wheelie bins, the sheer volume of traffic and taking an hour to drive 15 miles to work...lots more examples but you get the picture I'm sure
Now those small examples are a pain in the butt in a small country town, (and I've not mentioned the cost of council tax et al) but liveable...however, not everyone who emigrated from the UK lived in a small country town, most probably the biggest majority left large cosmopolitan towns & cities with all it's problems.
In all likelihood those problems that had many leave their home of birth, are not only still there , but very likely even more pronounced.
I'll give you a small example, now don't get me wrong, I'm not prejudiced against immigrants at all, after all I am one here in Spain, but I paid a visit to Borehamwood in Herts 3 months ago, a small town on the edge of North London which was always pretty laid back and very English. I walked around the town and the only English I heard was being spoken by the shop assistants. Everyone, was Eastern European or Black.
Another example, which I have to admit really annoyed me was when I went into Asda in Harlow Essex. I asked an assistant where the mustard was , she beckoned me to follow her and pointed to the rice pudding. After repeating my request and seeing the confused look on her face I realised she couldn't speak English. I was shocked that someone should be employed dealing with the public who couldn't speak English and I complained to the line manager who apologised in an embarrassed kind of way.
I am luckier than many migrants in that I still have a house in the UK, so I am able to go back and forth regularly, probably 3 times a year , and even in those short periods I can see big changes.
I love the UK, but there's a heckava lot that's unbearable, which is why I came to Spain.
My concern is that so many of you who are in the process of moving back, may still be holding onto that Enid Blyton halcyon memory, and although initially it may seem so when you return, while you picnic in the green green grass, and have sunday lunch in the pub garden, the reality is very different in many many parts of the UK.
So what's your views peeps?
For instance lots of people seem to remember the UK more in an Enid Blyton halcyon days type of way than the reality that it can be in certain parts of Blighty.
My home in Herts is a very nice place, a little market town that's changed very little over the past 30 years and as close to English perfect as you can get,..... but the changes that have taken place seem to have been rapid within the last 3 years. The influx of Eastern Europeans, the petty rules and regs of the local council, eg; people being fined for leaving the lid half closed on their wheelie bins, the sheer volume of traffic and taking an hour to drive 15 miles to work...lots more examples but you get the picture I'm sure
Now those small examples are a pain in the butt in a small country town, (and I've not mentioned the cost of council tax et al) but liveable...however, not everyone who emigrated from the UK lived in a small country town, most probably the biggest majority left large cosmopolitan towns & cities with all it's problems.
In all likelihood those problems that had many leave their home of birth, are not only still there , but very likely even more pronounced.
I'll give you a small example, now don't get me wrong, I'm not prejudiced against immigrants at all, after all I am one here in Spain, but I paid a visit to Borehamwood in Herts 3 months ago, a small town on the edge of North London which was always pretty laid back and very English. I walked around the town and the only English I heard was being spoken by the shop assistants. Everyone, was Eastern European or Black.
Another example, which I have to admit really annoyed me was when I went into Asda in Harlow Essex. I asked an assistant where the mustard was , she beckoned me to follow her and pointed to the rice pudding. After repeating my request and seeing the confused look on her face I realised she couldn't speak English. I was shocked that someone should be employed dealing with the public who couldn't speak English and I complained to the line manager who apologised in an embarrassed kind of way.
I am luckier than many migrants in that I still have a house in the UK, so I am able to go back and forth regularly, probably 3 times a year , and even in those short periods I can see big changes.
I love the UK, but there's a heckava lot that's unbearable, which is why I came to Spain.
My concern is that so many of you who are in the process of moving back, may still be holding onto that Enid Blyton halcyon memory, and although initially it may seem so when you return, while you picnic in the green green grass, and have sunday lunch in the pub garden, the reality is very different in many many parts of the UK.
So what's your views peeps?
Jun 19th 2008, 10:19 am
#2
Account Closed
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 723
Re: Rose tinted specs or a reality check
Although a few posters do seem to have that view the majority of us are fully aware of the realities of life in the UK today. It's just where we will be happier regardless of the social issues and problems the UK has. But don't forget it all goes on in Oz too and Canada and the USA from what I read and a reality check for people whichever country they are moving to is imperative. Online papers a freely available for anybody to read and work it out for themselves.
I think it does depend where you return to as well. I will be returning to my sleepy little village where a stray cat having a crap in the vicar's vegetable patch was front page news.
I think it does depend where you return to as well. I will be returning to my sleepy little village where a stray cat having a crap in the vicar's vegetable patch was front page news.
Jun 19th 2008, 10:27 am
#3
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2008
Location: Southern Spain
Posts: 224
Re: Rose tinted specs or a reality check
Yes I understand you totally crystal, and that was pretty much the same in our little town, vicars bike stolen etc...but things have changed a lot in a very short time, and I just worry that people who've been away a very long time, and haven't been lucky enough to make a visit, are really in for a heckava shock.
I feel the same when I go back...phew I'm home, people understand me,... there's no backbiting retired expats who have nothing else to do but cause trouble for people....wow, the grass is green, ...great I can deal with the beaurocracy in my own Language....how fab to go into an english pub and just hear my own language, blah de blah,...and it is fab, but then I remember why I left in the first place and it's all still there, but underlined now.
It would be a lovely world if everyone could return to a village green with cricket being played on a Sunday afternoon like us, but that's not the reality sadly, and I just hope very much that people who are returning to crime ridden cities and large towns after many years away, really know what they're going back to!!
I feel the same when I go back...phew I'm home, people understand me,... there's no backbiting retired expats who have nothing else to do but cause trouble for people....wow, the grass is green, ...great I can deal with the beaurocracy in my own Language....how fab to go into an english pub and just hear my own language, blah de blah,...and it is fab, but then I remember why I left in the first place and it's all still there, but underlined now.
It would be a lovely world if everyone could return to a village green with cricket being played on a Sunday afternoon like us, but that's not the reality sadly, and I just hope very much that people who are returning to crime ridden cities and large towns after many years away, really know what they're going back to!!
Jun 19th 2008, 10:47 am
#4
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Back in Perth
Posts: 336
Re: Rose tinted specs or a reality check
Since being back I have noticed a big change in the UK this time. Being a ping ponger I can see the benefits of both countries but your right the UK is changing at a rapid rate and not all for the good. Its a shame we couldn't leave it alone to be the pretty little country it is without everything else but unfortunately everything changes and I am fast coming to the conclusion that perhaps I have more likeness for the Australian way of life than the UK now. The UK I knew has gone and I am not sure I like the new evolving one. Yes we still have our sense of humour and it is good to be among people who can have a real good hearty laugh again but there is more to life than that, bills and earning a living, the basic things in life and no matter which country you live in you still have to do both of those unless your well off of course or win the lottery!
Just my own personal view, so don't come out with guns firing!
Plants
Just my own personal view, so don't come out with guns firing!
Plants
Jun 19th 2008, 11:06 am
#5
Account Closed
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 723
Re: Rose tinted specs or a reality check
Yes I understand you totally crystal, and that was pretty much the same in our little town, vicars bike stolen etc...but things have changed a lot in a very short time, and I just worry that people who've been away a very long time, and haven't been lucky enough to make a visit, are really in for a heckava shock.I feel the same when I go back...phew I'm home, people understand me,... there's no backbiting retired expats who have nothing else to do but cause trouble for people....wow, the grass is green, ...great I can deal with the beaurocracy in my own Language....how fab to go into an english pub and just hear my own language, blah de blah,...and it is fab, but then I remember why I left in the first place and it's all still there, but underlined now.
It would be a lovely world if everyone could return to a village green with cricket being played on a Sunday afternoon like us, but that's not the reality sadly, and I just hope very much that people who are returning to crime ridden cities and large towns after many years away, really know what they're going back to!!
It would be a lovely world if everyone could return to a village green with cricket being played on a Sunday afternoon like us, but that's not the reality sadly, and I just hope very much that people who are returning to crime ridden cities and large towns after many years away, really know what they're going back to!!
I think the highlighted bit is the one that is salient.
I went home after a year for a visit with very low expectations and was pleasantly surprised by how things had changed for the better IN THE AREAS I VISITED and that did include parts of London. However I was fully aware that alot of things had changed for the worse in other parts of the country which made me quite sad.
I am not naive enough to think that just because I was lucky enough to live in a sleepy village nothing crappy ever happens elsewhere. It does and it has increased. The papers (not the Daily Wail) were full of doom and gloom but reported it in an objective manner unlike the Sun, The Daily Fail, The Express and The Mirror.
There are still plenty of nice, affordable places for people to return to. Take a look at the amount of posts from people asking advice on places and areas on this forum so that they don't end up in a 'crime ridden city'.
I think people have alot more intelligence and savvy regarding their return home than other posters give them credit for. (I'm not referring to you with that comment btw Dee-Dee - more the universal poster).
Jun 19th 2008, 11:08 am
#6
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 330
Re: Rose tinted specs or a reality check
So what's your views peeps?
Jun 19th 2008, 11:18 am
#7
Failed Expat ;-)
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: (Great) Britain
Posts: 7,392
Re: Rose tinted specs or a reality check
I think I summed it up pretty well in this thread http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=541246
And I didn't even have to bash the immigrants, to point out the UK's failings!
And I didn't even have to bash the immigrants, to point out the UK's failings!
Jun 19th 2008, 11:23 am
#8
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2008
Location: Southern Spain
Posts: 224
Re: Rose tinted specs or a reality check
Oh I agree with all everyone has said, and I really didn't mean to ''bash the immigrants'', just pointing out how much things have changed in as few words as possible lol...believe me I could have written a tome.
#Plants I'd like to think we can all say it as we see it, without being attacked, hopefully.
#Triboy....why the wrong forum?
#Plants I'd like to think we can all say it as we see it, without being attacked, hopefully.
#Triboy....why the wrong forum?
Jun 19th 2008, 11:25 am
#9
Éireann go Brách
Joined: Mar 2006
Location: White Man in Hammersmith Palais
Posts: 2,932
Re: Rose tinted specs or a reality check
Having read everyone who's homesick for the UK's posts, and all the things everyone remembers with affection, my question is it like that in reality?
For instance lots of people seem to remember the UK more in an Enid Blyton halcyon days type of way than the reality that it can be in certain parts of Blighty.
My home in Herts is a very nice place, a little market town that's changed very little over the past 30 years and as close to English perfect as you can get,..... but the changes that have taken place seem to have been rapid within the last 3 years. The influx of Eastern Europeans, the petty rules and regs of the local council, eg; people being fined for leaving the lid half closed on their wheelie bins, the sheer volume of traffic and taking an hour to drive 15 miles to work...lots more examples but you get the picture I'm sure
Now those small examples are a pain in the butt in a small country town, (and I've not mentioned the cost of council tax et al) but liveable...however, not everyone who emigrated from the UK lived in a small country town, most probably the biggest majority left large cosmopolitan towns & cities with all it's problems.
In all likelihood those problems that had many leave their home of birth, are not only still there , but very likely even more pronounced.
I'll give you a small example, now don't get me wrong, I'm not prejudiced against immigrants at all, after all I am one here in Spain, but I paid a visit to Borehamwood in Herts 3 months ago, a small town on the edge of North London which was always pretty laid back and very English. I walked around the town and the only English I heard was being spoken by the shop assistants. Everyone, was Eastern European or Black.
Another example, which I have to admit really annoyed me was when I went into Asda in Harlow Essex. I asked an assistant where the mustard was , she beckoned me to follow her and pointed to the rice pudding. After repeating my request and seeing the confused look on her face I realised she couldn't speak English. I was shocked that someone should be employed dealing with the public who couldn't speak English and I complained to the line manager who apologised in an embarrassed kind of way.
I am luckier than many migrants in that I still have a house in the UK, so I am able to go back and forth regularly, probably 3 times a year , and even in those short periods I can see big changes.
I love the UK, but there's a heckava lot that's unbearable, which is why I came to Spain.
My concern is that so many of you who are in the process of moving back, may still be holding onto that Enid Blyton halcyon memory, and although initially it may seem so when you return, while you picnic in the green green grass, and have sunday lunch in the pub garden, the reality is very different in many many parts of the UK.
So what's your views peeps?
For instance lots of people seem to remember the UK more in an Enid Blyton halcyon days type of way than the reality that it can be in certain parts of Blighty.
My home in Herts is a very nice place, a little market town that's changed very little over the past 30 years and as close to English perfect as you can get,..... but the changes that have taken place seem to have been rapid within the last 3 years. The influx of Eastern Europeans, the petty rules and regs of the local council, eg; people being fined for leaving the lid half closed on their wheelie bins, the sheer volume of traffic and taking an hour to drive 15 miles to work...lots more examples but you get the picture I'm sure
Now those small examples are a pain in the butt in a small country town, (and I've not mentioned the cost of council tax et al) but liveable...however, not everyone who emigrated from the UK lived in a small country town, most probably the biggest majority left large cosmopolitan towns & cities with all it's problems.
In all likelihood those problems that had many leave their home of birth, are not only still there , but very likely even more pronounced.
I'll give you a small example, now don't get me wrong, I'm not prejudiced against immigrants at all, after all I am one here in Spain, but I paid a visit to Borehamwood in Herts 3 months ago, a small town on the edge of North London which was always pretty laid back and very English. I walked around the town and the only English I heard was being spoken by the shop assistants. Everyone, was Eastern European or Black.
Another example, which I have to admit really annoyed me was when I went into Asda in Harlow Essex. I asked an assistant where the mustard was , she beckoned me to follow her and pointed to the rice pudding. After repeating my request and seeing the confused look on her face I realised she couldn't speak English. I was shocked that someone should be employed dealing with the public who couldn't speak English and I complained to the line manager who apologised in an embarrassed kind of way.
I am luckier than many migrants in that I still have a house in the UK, so I am able to go back and forth regularly, probably 3 times a year , and even in those short periods I can see big changes.
I love the UK, but there's a heckava lot that's unbearable, which is why I came to Spain.
My concern is that so many of you who are in the process of moving back, may still be holding onto that Enid Blyton halcyon memory, and although initially it may seem so when you return, while you picnic in the green green grass, and have sunday lunch in the pub garden, the reality is very different in many many parts of the UK.
So what's your views peeps?
I agree about England. I think life here is crap. I dont blame the immigrants for it for it though. Its the miserable Daily Mail, ming ming ming brigade with their rose tinted specs of the past.
Sorry if it sounds aggressive but im sick of the moaning here about absolutely everything.
Jun 19th 2008, 11:32 am
#10
BE Enthusiast
Joined: May 2008
Location: Hamilton, New Zealand
Posts: 328
Re: Rose tinted specs or a reality check
hi dee-dee, I left Islington, North London in 1993, moved to Jersey, Isle of Man and now NZ and will be with any luck be moving back to UK next year. I have no intentions of going back to London, don't think I could cope with such a huge over populated place like that anymore but I do want to go back to the UK.
I have moved around these places because I have needed or felt like a change nothing more nothing less they seemed like good ideas at the time. However I have come to resent NZ it isn't about the good and bad in any country, its about where you feel you belong.
For me its about having choices and variety, rich heritage and different cultures. I find NZ terribly boring and bland, a whole heap of nothingness at the end of the planet and detached from the world. It is those exact qualities that make NZ loved by so many..for instance an English friend of mine can not understand why I want to go back, she loves it here because it is isolated and left alone, not bothered by any evil forces, nothing happens here and thats what she likes...to me its like being kept in a glass box watching everything happen outside but be unable to join in, just watching time go by.
Yes I am expecting to be quite surprised by the changes that inevitably have happened since I have been away but also can't wait to experience life again, the good the bad and the ugly. To be part of the bigger picture rather than locked away in some awful 70's timewarp.......
I suppose all depends why we left and why we are returning, what part of the UK we settle in, what jobs we do, individual experiences, frame of mind, outside influences, a whole heap of things that will lend a hand in how we intergrate back into a changed society.
Who knows how things will turn out, if most of us really picked it all to pieces and wondered if it would work out, we would never have left in the first place and would become one of the many that 'wished we had done' or 'we nearly did'... at least we gave it a go, its all part of the adventure and the bigger plan
nothing ventured, nothing gained!
I have moved around these places because I have needed or felt like a change nothing more nothing less they seemed like good ideas at the time. However I have come to resent NZ it isn't about the good and bad in any country, its about where you feel you belong.
For me its about having choices and variety, rich heritage and different cultures. I find NZ terribly boring and bland, a whole heap of nothingness at the end of the planet and detached from the world. It is those exact qualities that make NZ loved by so many..for instance an English friend of mine can not understand why I want to go back, she loves it here because it is isolated and left alone, not bothered by any evil forces, nothing happens here and thats what she likes...to me its like being kept in a glass box watching everything happen outside but be unable to join in, just watching time go by.
Yes I am expecting to be quite surprised by the changes that inevitably have happened since I have been away but also can't wait to experience life again, the good the bad and the ugly. To be part of the bigger picture rather than locked away in some awful 70's timewarp.......
I suppose all depends why we left and why we are returning, what part of the UK we settle in, what jobs we do, individual experiences, frame of mind, outside influences, a whole heap of things that will lend a hand in how we intergrate back into a changed society.
Who knows how things will turn out, if most of us really picked it all to pieces and wondered if it would work out, we would never have left in the first place and would become one of the many that 'wished we had done' or 'we nearly did'... at least we gave it a go, its all part of the adventure and the bigger plan
nothing ventured, nothing gained!
Jun 19th 2008, 11:37 am
#11
BE Enthusiast
Joined: May 2008
Location: Hamilton, New Zealand
Posts: 328
Re: Rose tinted specs or a reality check
Its so funny you just throw in that your an immigrant yourself, but thats alright cos you're British. But Poles, Africans... noooo dirty mustard hating trouble makers. Did you speak fluent Spanish when you emigrated?
I agree about England. I think life here is crap. I dont blame the immigrants for it for it though. Its the miserable Daily Mail, ming ming ming brigade with their rose tinted specs of the past.
Sorry if it sounds aggressive but im sick of the moaning here about absolutely everything.
I agree about England. I think life here is crap. I dont blame the immigrants for it for it though. Its the miserable Daily Mail, ming ming ming brigade with their rose tinted specs of the past.
Sorry if it sounds aggressive but im sick of the moaning here about absolutely everything.
Jun 19th 2008, 11:39 am
#12
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2008
Location: Southern Spain
Posts: 224
Re: Rose tinted specs or a reality check
Oh dear, I don't think at any time I mentioned a specific race. I simply noted that one town which I visited had a huge population of immigrants (eastern europeans & blacks)...that was fact. I wasn't saying they had no right to be there, just that they were so many in such a short space of time that it came as a surprise. I at no point inferred they were troublemakers, I was trying to point out just how quickly that one little town had changed.
No you're absolutely correct I didn't speak fluent Spanish when I arrived, but then that's the reason no Spaniard would have employed me in a job where I would have to speak Spanish to the customers, makes sense to me.
Yes your post does sound aggressive..unnneccessary methinks, , and really I didn't see this as a ''moaning post'' simply an observation of mine, That's all, and a concern for people going back who may be in for a big surprise as to the changes in the UK
I hope you have a better life wherever you are, you sound like you need a big chill pill.
No you're absolutely correct I didn't speak fluent Spanish when I arrived, but then that's the reason no Spaniard would have employed me in a job where I would have to speak Spanish to the customers, makes sense to me.
Yes your post does sound aggressive..unnneccessary methinks, , and really I didn't see this as a ''moaning post'' simply an observation of mine, That's all, and a concern for people going back who may be in for a big surprise as to the changes in the UK
I hope you have a better life wherever you are, you sound like you need a big chill pill.
Jun 19th 2008, 11:50 am
#13
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Back in Perth
Posts: 336
Re: Rose tinted specs or a reality check
[QUOTE=Dee_dee;6481961]Oh I agree with all everyone has said, and I really didn't mean to ''bash the immigrants'', just pointing out how much things have changed in as few words as possible lol...believe me I could have written a tome.
#Plants I'd like to think we can all say it as we see it, without being attacked, hopefully.
So do I, but unfortunately I have learnt my lesson from putting my complete views on here as you get attacked when you express them fully, so I keep some views to myself! As my Mum would have said Ïf you can't think of anything nice to say, don't say anything at all"!
In an ideal world wouldn't it be nice to say EXACTLY what was on our minds!
Plants
#Plants I'd like to think we can all say it as we see it, without being attacked, hopefully.
So do I, but unfortunately I have learnt my lesson from putting my complete views on here as you get attacked when you express them fully, so I keep some views to myself! As my Mum would have said Ïf you can't think of anything nice to say, don't say anything at all"!
In an ideal world wouldn't it be nice to say EXACTLY what was on our minds!
Plants
Jun 19th 2008, 11:56 am
#14
Éireann go Brách
Joined: Mar 2006
Location: White Man in Hammersmith Palais
Posts: 2,932
Re: Rose tinted specs or a reality check
Oh dear, I don't think at any time I mentioned a specific race. I simply noted that one town which I visited had a huge population of immigrants (eastern europeans & blacks)...that was fact. I wasn't saying they had no right to be there, just that they were so many in such a short space of time that it came as a surprise. I at no point inferred they were troublemakers, I was trying to point out just how quickly that one little town had changed.
No you're absolutely correct I didn't speak fluent Spanish when I arrived, but then that's the reason no Spaniard would have employed me in a job where I would have to speak Spanish to the customers, makes sense to me.
Yes your post does sound aggressive..unnneccessary methinks, , and really I didn't see this as a ''moaning post'' simply an observation of mine, That's all, and a concern for people going back who may be in for a big surprise as to the changes in the UK
I hope you have a better life wherever you are, you sound like you need a big chill pill.
No you're absolutely correct I didn't speak fluent Spanish when I arrived, but then that's the reason no Spaniard would have employed me in a job where I would have to speak Spanish to the customers, makes sense to me.
Yes your post does sound aggressive..unnneccessary methinks, , and really I didn't see this as a ''moaning post'' simply an observation of mine, That's all, and a concern for people going back who may be in for a big surprise as to the changes in the UK
I hope you have a better life wherever you are, you sound like you need a big chill pill.
You really need to separate the term blacks btw.
Liza Jane... Here, UK. Everything means absolutely everything. We dont get the news here anymore we get predictions of cataclysmic proportions by experts every morning. TV about fat kids, thin kids, weird shaped kids, families on holiday designed not to get on so we can watch them fight.
Anyway this forum is for people wanting to return, they dont want to read about the state of the nation. It doesnt really matter how crap you say it is... when you're depressed and homesick and the highlight of your evening is watching an episode of Friends for the 4,000th time, sitting in a pub being served by a barely English speaking Polish immigrant must sound like heaven.
Jun 19th 2008, 12:02 pm
#15
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2008
Location: Southern Spain
Posts: 224
Re: Rose tinted specs or a reality check
Oh You are absolutely correct Lisajane, you sound similar to me in that I have also lived & worked in many places other than the UK, and my heart will belong always to my homeland.
I totally undertsnad your reasonings for moving on, and thank the lord you and I are able, so many people find themselves in a situation where they can't, and of course as you rightly say, there are as many who would never want to leave their adopted country.
#Plants, yup what a shame that an opinion cannot be just accepted as that by people, and disagree with the post and not the poster is my motto....but to flame someone for their opinions is wrong IMO. ...but very easy to do from behind a keyboard huh? *sad*
#London...I don't think I need to seperate the term 'blacks'' at all, you seem to have done that for me by inferring that my post meant africans, instead of which I simply pointed out that the largese population now in that little town were Eastern Europeans & Blacks...fact, but next time if you really like I will happily ask each individual black person I meet what their heritage is, and I'll come back and let you know.
I totally undertsnad your reasonings for moving on, and thank the lord you and I are able, so many people find themselves in a situation where they can't, and of course as you rightly say, there are as many who would never want to leave their adopted country.
#Plants, yup what a shame that an opinion cannot be just accepted as that by people, and disagree with the post and not the poster is my motto....but to flame someone for their opinions is wrong IMO. ...but very easy to do from behind a keyboard huh? *sad*
#London...I don't think I need to seperate the term 'blacks'' at all, you seem to have done that for me by inferring that my post meant africans, instead of which I simply pointed out that the largese population now in that little town were Eastern Europeans & Blacks...fact, but next time if you really like I will happily ask each individual black person I meet what their heritage is, and I'll come back and let you know.