HurricaneHayles

Guess that briefly sums up my scenario...

Currently live in Holland. Hate it here on the whole. Only moved here because my partner of 10 yrs got a new job. I have no job, little prospect of getting one (been trying), I am home alone with our baby all day (nearly 1yr old) which is fine but I have no adult interaction hardly, have tried going to Mother and baby groups but made no solid connections with anyone and I am slowly beginning to resent my partner who now says it would be impossible for us to move back, he'd never get a job paying enough, wouldn't be able to afford rent etc. I am nearly 30 and other than my son, I have nothing to show for my time on earth. No purpose, no future other than a housewife and I am extremely unhappy about it. Together we make great parents but we are totally shitty partners

I think I have fallen out of love with him and considering the prospect of leaving and moving home. The thought of it is so very tempting that I nearly told him I was staying after my last visit home but I decided I needed to give it a try and make sure I wasn't just "enjoying" being home. Literally the only thing stopping me right now is the prospect of my son not having regular access and a solid relationship with his Dad. He loves his Dad and my partner is a wonderful Father in most respects. If my son didn't exist I'd have no issue going and packing my bags right now and going but the thought of separating them both breaks my heart.

I am a British passport holder, as is my son and his Dad so staying in Holland after a split with no job, no money etc I am guessing is virtually impossible so at some point post-split I would be forced to return to the UK. I can stay with my parents if needed in Kent and my partner would stay here no doubt for his job.

Has anyone ever managed a relationship split like this involving children? How would access and payments for child be arranged (I have no doubt he'd pay voluntarily whatever is "fair" for maintenance, but just in case...) Is it realistically possible to maintain a relationship between Father and Son where the Father lives abroad do you think or am I literally stealing his child?

Please help. I need any/all advice you can give me

quoll

Will your child's partner let you leave with him? If Holland is a signatory to the Hague convention, then removal of a child without a parent's permission is child abduction and you could be forced to return. I'd get your legal position sorted before you start thinking about moving, you may find that you arent able to move with your child anyway.

Perhaps Relationships Counselling might be a good stepping off point as well - thought I have no idea how you would go about finding an English speaking counsellor who would be prepared to take you on.

Sally Redux

I can't see that you're really going to gain anything by splitting up. I reckon most new mums feel like this at some point but you should exhaust the possibilities of improving the relationship.

HurricaneHayles

Actually, I disagree. I would gain a lot - better job prospects, family around me, friends, a country where health and service professionals actually speak the same language as me and don't respond with "call back when someone Dutch can speak to us"... Just a starter!

I have tried to talk to him and tried to rebuild our relationship but there is only so much I can do when only one person is putting effort in.

I don't think he'd stop me going with our son if that is what it came down to. I would of course seek legal advice if he did not consent though.

dunroving

I think even if he gives consent you may want to seek legal advice anyway (to draw up an appropriate document of consent). From previous posts on the same topic, things can change very quickly and verbal assurances mean nothing if at the last minute he changes his mind.

Sally Redux

These things can certainly escalate when we move abroad. Hope you can find a solution.

Maggiepie

Have you considered that with a baby under 12 months you have undiagnosed postnatal depression? The feelings of hopelessness, all or nothing solutions are pointers towards that.

I moved with a nearly 12 month old to Switzerland and it was tough. As you say all day with no adult company. The other thing when you feel depressed is you are reluctant to push yourself into uncomfortable situations and yet this is exactly what you need to do to build an expat network. The lack of sleep wont be helping either.

Rather than "my relationship isnt working", talk this all through with your partner and see what could help in the next 6 months. Have a plan for that rather than the all or nothing partnership or no partnership solution.
Maybe start by moving temporarily to your parents in Kent and getting the support of your family and friends and professional help to check for PND? The advantage of this is it gives you time to work things out as a couple, support in your own language and being in a place that can be reached by train from Holland.

(Also, if it doesn't work out then you are established in your home country so I am not skilled in law but I imagine it would be more difficult for the courts to apply the Hague convention)

Also I recommend the book "Beating the Blues before they beat you: A guide to overcoming depression by Robert Leahy

Good luck

Englishmum

Here's an idea which may be something to consider:

A few years ago, one of our friends got a job in Amsterdam (he is in senior management, at that time he was in middle management). His wife is a physiotherapist and has her own private practice. She didn't want to move to Holland as it would have wrecked her career.

What they did was that he stayed in a small flat in Amsterdam during the week and flew back to London at weekends (their house is in Bucks though so it's convenient for LHR).

He then changed jobs and now works in Dublin. They continue this arrangement; he either flies home to the UK for the weekend or she sometimes flies over to Dublin. They chose not to have children, however.

Perhaps this is something you and your partner might choose to consider? If he is so focussed on his career that he refuses to consider your own needs, then maybe he can perhaps work longer hours on weekdays and fly over to the UK at weekends?

TBH when my children were little (indeed throughout their childhood) they almost never saw their dad during the week; he had already left for his commute to Central London before they got up for breakfast and by the time he got home each evening it was past their bedtime. Also much of the time he was overseas on business trips and that would often cut into the weekend too. We eventually relocated to Singapore with his job but even then he was rarely there (like many of the other dads) as he was working all over South East Asia and beyond.

Btw you say he is your partner - so I assume you are not married to each other. Where was your little one born? I do know that in the UK where the parents are unmarried, the mother often gets primary custody of the children - not sure what the situation is for British children overseas in that respect. Is your partner Dutch, Canadian or British? (Your location says Montreal!)



These links may be useful:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Parents/...hts/DG_4002954

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Dl1/Dire...acts/index.htm

https://www.production.alphagov.co.u...ow-to-get-help

http://www.reunite.org/pages/parenta...tion_faq_s.asp

http://www.reunite.org/pages/signato...onventions.asp

PS: I would imagine that Dutch is a very difficult language to learn, so it would obviously hinder job prospects. I'm relocating to Switzerland next month - spouse is already there on an expat posting - and if I'm going to integrate I will need to learn Swiss German (a spoken language). It didn't help when I went to a party there last Christmas and spoke to a British guy who moved there a decade ago when he married his Swiss wife....he says he still struggles with the language...yikes!

holly_1948

Does the father even have any rights if they have never been married?!
I assume the father never formally adopted the child.
I thought no rights, I could easily be wrong.

HurricaneHayles

Thank you for the replies everyone.

To answer some questions - we originally relocated to Montreal, were there for 18 months and all was well til he decided he "missed the UK" and tried to get a job back there (I say tried, he asked his old company to have him back, they refused, he knew someone here in Holland so got a foot in the door to a job as it were). So, here we are!

All of us are British. Ironically, we had issues registering my partner as Father pre-baby being born (as it is done here in Holland, odd I know) and were told without this bit of paper our child could not have Dad's name as we were not married. As we are not Dutch, they couldn't give us this bit of paper! I returned home to have my son for this reason mainly, but also because my Mother was having major brain surgery and I stayed with them to help out as much as I could. When my son was born he obviously had a British birth certificate and my partner is registered as Father therefore as I understand it in UK law, he has parental rights despite us not being married.

Dutch is an horrendously difficult language to learn. Until about the time I moved they were offering "integration classes" which taught you Dutch, Dutch history etc for free but due to funding cuts they now only offer them to non-EU immigrants who require it for visas to live and work here. Lessons are very expensive and certainly with no wage coming in, something I can't afford to pay for, let alone the childcare I would need on top of it.

As for possibility of PND - I have considered this but I am not convinced this is the problem... Did you know here in Holland they actually have released guidelines stating that huisarts (GP's) should not give medication or anything to those who have mild to moderate depression? http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archive...ted_to_the.php The health system seems to have some odd ideas at times.

Commuting - I LOVE this idea. Have even suggested it. My partner dislikes it though and has said we couldn't afford to do this.

Pushing myself into social situations - I have been to numerous ex-pat Mum meet ups arranged in the area arranged through a group online and as I said, have yet to make a single solid connection with anyone. They only happen perhaps once a month or so. I enjoy them generally when I am there but overall I feel "out classsed" as it were by all these willing stay at home Mum's who sit and talk about how AWFULLY stressful it is to try and plan flying to Dubai for a luxury holiday with a 6 month old and how their scientist husband is so clever and wonderful. *eye roll*

Nap time over for the little one. I will read the links posted and try to come back later. Thank you all again.

jemima55

I read this with all the sympathy in the world for you. I remember those early days with very young children, and I`d say me and most of the women I know were going "off our heads", it goes with the territory! You`ve just made this huge adjustment from being free to being responsible for a young child. You`ve probably given up a job too, so adult company`s gone out the window. You dont sound to me like you`ve got post natal depression so much as circumstantial depression from these new restrictions. Unless we`re loaded and can get 24 hour childcare, we all get it. I used to envy my husband because he could at least walk out the door in the mornings.
I`d try and explain to your partner how incredibly unhappy you are and see if you can both work towards going home to live in a year or two so you`ve got something to look forward to. He sounds a good father and I dont think you really want to lose him, although, god knows, I know that feeling of being pushed to the brink!
In the meantime, persevere with the expat activities, although it really sounds as if you`ve already given them a good go. Have you posted on the Europe forum for Holland? There may be someone there who is geographically close to you.
I was five years in the States. How did I survive? Church, voluntary work, Cadburys chocolate and Iplayer, and I think I deserve a blimmin medal!

Beccarose

Ah the elitist mentality. I know it all too well and every time it still makes me cringe.

But surely there is someone somewhere there who is of the same mindset as you.

I completely understand the feelings you're having and know how it feels to feel kind of hopeless. It sounds to me like a lot of the resentment you feel toward your husband stems from his refusal to discuss a move back. Definitely reason for resentment. I've been there and know how horrible it feels. All I can really say is try to find some way to really let him know how you feel, and what you're thinking. If he can understand how serious you are and how you really feel- and he is informed that it's actually a matter of all of you moving or you leaving him- then he will probably be more open to discussing it. I hate to suggest ultimatums- but sometimes we have to put it point blank for the other person to really get it.

Sally Redux

That's not a bad idea. Those medications should be used with extreme caution.

Englishmum

To HurricaneHayles:

I'm posting a link from a website for expats - Expatica.com (it also has a forum and community board for the Netherlands) below. It's been going for a few years, I came across it more than a decade ago. There is a very informative link which relates to child custody issues in Holland when the parents split up.

It's not an easy read as there are no paragraphs, but from what I understand from this article it seems that if the child is young, doesn't know any Dutch and hasn't started school in Holland ie. hasn't integrated into Dutch life, and there is a support system back in the home country (eg. family, a roof over your head for you and your child), the expat mum tends to get a sympathetic hearing in the Dutch courts and likely to be allowed to move back with the child. I assume if you are all British, there is no support system for your family in Holland? Have you both considered what would happen to him if anything happened to you and your partner - would he be taken into care in Holland for example?

Although you are not married and there will be no divorce, perhaps you may need to consider that you may need to go through the courts if your (ex) partner is in dispute regarding custody issues as there are international borders involved.

Perhaps another tack is that you could maybe write all your feelings down in a note - like you have on this thread - and give it to your partner so there is no accusatory tone or inflection in your voice, just the facts.

Ask him outright in your note; How long is he planning to remain in the Netherlands? Would you both be willing to stay for say, 1 more year or 2 more years and head back to the UK before your son starts school (if you can bear to be there if you know there is a definite 'end date' in sight)..and get it in writing, hopefully with a witness...

What about his family in the UK - are there paternal grandparents who would love to have their grandson back in the UK? Other siblings? Could you enlist their help in tellling your partner just how unhappy life is for you in Holland?

If you are dead set on returning to the UK (which I totally understand in the circumstances) and he is totally against the idea, then perhaps you may need to consider having a consultation with a solicitor/attorney in Holland to ensure that you comply with the law before making plans to return to the UK.

Here is the link:

http://www.expatica.com/nl/essential...dren-1691.html

Also interesting reading:

http://www.marilynstowe.co.uk/2011/0...laura-guillon/

http://www.marilynstowe.co.uk/2012/0...nifer-hollyer/

All the best and I hope things work out for you all

holly_1948

Agreed.

The best reason for not using psychoactive drugs is that they basically don't work for mild and moderate mental illness. Or hardly at all.
And have nasty side effects, including addiction and reduced intelligence.

They do work for the severely mentally ill, the insane.