Originally Posted by chris955

As it is the other way around as well, I'm not sure of your point ? There are reciprocal agreements everywhere.

Originally Posted by Zen10

Yes, I have good and bad stories of both health systems, the NHS I have one much more serious complaint about the NHS involving the deliberate delaying of an operation with an elderly relative that may have contributed to his death, but I also know someone whose life was saved by the NHS, so personal anecdotes are just of so little value.

Originally Posted by holly_1948

As an example, breaking a leg in a car accident in the USA may bankrupt an uninsured visitor or resident alike. But the leg will be still set in the emergency room, even if it is clear that payment of the bills will never be collected because the patient is penniless ("Medically indigent" is the term used).

Originally Posted by Giantaxe

Polls consistently show Britain to be more anti-immigrant than other major western countries, so it's little surprise to see dastardly foreigners blamed for the NHS's woes.

Originally Posted by Giantaxe

I was back in the UK last month and was shocked by the number of times that "immigrants" were labelled as the biggest cause of Britain's problems. And equally shocked at the number of times I had to explain that habitual residence - as opposed to nationality - defines NHS eligibility. It's really too bad that certain segments of the British media feed this paranoia.

Originally Posted by nun

So what percentage of people with visitors visas indulged in NHS tourism...the number of visas is irrelevant


Told by whom and what are the numbers?



bad if true, but a drop in the NHS budget bucket. I thought recent residency checks were going to stop this. I'm all for residency checks so that the NHS isn't being abused, but NHS tourism simply isn't a big problem. Removing 20 Billion form the NHS budget to line the pockets of private providers is a bigger issue, as are public health problems like diabetes.



Which trust, over how many years, is this in London? What percentage of the trust's budget is that 8 million? The vast majority of health tourism might well be concentrated in one or two trusts in London so that 8 million number could be a large proportion of the total NHS tourism issue......also the Tory MP might have an axe to grind.......

People can tell stories with figures and encourage people to jump to incorrect conclusions by juxtaposing statements. This is a technique often seen in certain UK newspapers that are best torn up and used in the bathroom. The one at the beginning of this post is a classic example ie......

"the patient only requires a valid visitors visa which does not include a bona fide intention to remain when they are granted for 6 months or so.
We are told that One and a Half million such visas were granted last year."

This might lead some to think that millions of NHS health tourists exist...obviously this conclusion is not supported by the statements.

Originally Posted by nun

So what percentage of people with visitors visas indulged in NHS tourism...the number of visas is irrelevant

Originally Posted by nun

Told by whom and what are the numbers?

Originally Posted by nun

bad if true, but a drop in the NHS budget bucket.

Originally Posted by nun

Which trust, over how many years, is this in London? What percentage of the trust's budget is that 8 million? The vast majority of health tourism might well be concentrated in one or two trusts in London so that 8 million number could be a large proportion of the total NHS tourism issue......also the Tory MP might have an axe to grind.......

Originally Posted by nun

People can tell stories with figures and encourage people to jump to incorrect conclusions by juxtaposing statements. This is a technique often seen in certain UK newspapers that are best torn up and used in the bathroom. The one at the beginning of this post is a classic example ie......

Originally Posted by nun

This might lead some to think that millions of NHS health tourists exist...obviously this conclusion is not supported by the statements.

Originally Posted by nun

10s of millions of pounds....the size of the issue sounds as small as ever. These managers are as poor at long division and percentages as all the other people that have this bee in their bonnet. This is way down on the list of problems faced by the NHS. of course it does feed into many British people's xenophobia......links to the news article would be appreciated!

Originally Posted by TheArmChairDetective

...Personally, I have never been that poor that I needed to tear up a newspaper and use it in the bathroom.

Originally Posted by Pit Bull.

There's many, many great things about the NHS but my wife and her colleagues are really unhappy with how the job has gone, it's not bashing the NHS it's a simple fact.

Originally Posted by TheArmChairDetective

The quote came from Sir Andrew Green, Chairman of Migration Watch UK .

Originally Posted by Grayling

You really need to take off your rose tints if you think the Australian health service is any better

Originally Posted by Pit Bull.

I never said it was, I said a few nurses who my wife met when we were there and her cousins who are nurses said it was better, that doesn't mean it's better everywhere, or that everywhere in the UK is crap.

Originally Posted by Grayling

So you will believe your wife's cousins but not me

I have worked in both systems and, currently, work inthe Australian system.

I know which I prefer

Originally Posted by Pit Bull.

Why should anyone believe what one person says in regards to all of one country? Not saying that your experiences aren't true.

There's been many programmes here in the UK of failing hospitals, some where hundreds of people died through lack of care, they were left in terrible conditions, laid in their own faeces, dehydrated, not having been fed, suffering infections because of it, resulting in huge inquiries and condemnation, but I am sure you will point out there's been similar programmes showing hospitals failing patients in Australia.