The Real NHS
 

As Bub the Wiser keeps stressing that the forum needs threads that give a more balanced view of the UK, I thought I would start one about the NHS. A thread that includes ALL experiences of the NHS. For people returning I would hope it would be a valuable insight into what they might expect.

For background, lived in the UK 40 years, had two children in hospital, have father with cancer in the UK. One major operation, a child with a lung/heart condition and another child with a minor problem.

I will try to keep it from turning into my life story:-)

Dentist, can't get onto a NHS dentist lists to long. When did for short time unable to get appointments, rubbish treatment as no continuity. Children are still NHS covered at private dentist. Son couldn't get braces on NHS as requirements are very strict. Change happened about 7 years ago before then was on NHS and treatments fine.

Two kids in NHS hospital, one child very ill while carrying, regular scans and monitoring. Birth not enough staff and to busy in hospital. Second, fine but again not enough staff.

DD has recurring minor condition, seen by specialists, full scan done, very happy with treatment.

DS rushed into hospital when 2, spent 4 nights, treatment OK, but cleaners not so good.

Me rushed into hospital major operation, treatment very good, cleaners good, taken care off. Wasn't impressed to find the whole hospital only covered by one doctor at night. Mixed wards, gentleman wandering in night confused looking for his wife, very undignified for him:-(

Dad has cancer, went to Docs, appointment that week, treatment that week and ongoing, happy about treatments.

Local Doctors, perfectly happy with service, appointment waiting times, always that day for kids, nearly always that day for adults or next day. This is seeing any doctor, longer for a named doctor.

Various visits to A&E (2 kids:)), always happy with service, shortest wait none, longest 45 mins.

This is my experience of the NHS, is current as only left last year.

Can't give experience of US as have not had to visit/treatment as yet.

I personally feel that both systems UK and US are rubbish because UK service needs to be better and US is not available to everyone. But, out of the two I would choose our rubbish service any day as I don't believe that healthcare should be available to only the wealthy.

I hope this is a balance view of the NHS and will help anyone thinking of returning to the UK. If I can help with anything just ask away as long as its not to personal:)

Re: The Real NHS
 

Thank you so much, this was very helpful! When you say your children were still NHS covered at private dentist how does that work? Is it just a case of paying out of pocket if the treatment was something not covered by NHS or more expensive than NHS allows? Were you happy with the quality of treatment at the private dentist?

Do children get 6 month dental check ups covered by NHS?

What was your experience with schools in the UK for your children?

Thank you for any info you can give :)

Re: The Real NHS
 

I thought this is only if an NHS dentist decides stop doing NHS and to do private work only??? And that private dentists do not have to take on NHS children?

Perhaps someone else can confirm?


All NHS patients can get a 6 month dental check-up, if they can get on an NHS dentists books. Children are free and adults pay according the the 3 bands of work.

My dentist takes private and NHS and often runs out of NHS money before the year is up; so NHS people have to wait until the start of the new budget.

You can take insurance out and it is still cheap(ish). Some firms offer free private dentisty for the family, as part of the pay package.

Re: The Real NHS
 

Hi NiHao

Yes the children are still covered at a private dentist, I am sure there are some private dentists that chosen to op out of this but I have used two that are private but accepted kids as NHS. That means the kids pay nothing until they are 18 and don't quote me but I'm not sure if they stay in full time education it maybe free longer. You are right that you pay for kids if you choose to have something not covered by NHS such as coating on you kids teeth. Private dentist costs vary and I paid about £45 with no insurance for a clean and check up. Some private dentists ask for you to get insurance and other don't. I was very happy with my private dentist and there are good NHS dentists as well, but getting on their lists are usually impossible.

Yes the kids get check ups every 6 months on the NHS, adults once a year.

I had two kids in schools in the UK, both 8 and 10, Year 3 (Grade 2) and Year 5 (Grade 4) when we left. DS aged 10 classed as gifted, DD aged 8 learning difficulties.

I have to say there are schools in the UK I wouldn't send my dogs to, but I lived in a small town, had a choice of 4 very good primary schools, very happy with their education/sports and extra activities.

We had started to look at High Schools and in my town we still had Grammer Schools as well as the local High School. Both schools are good schools and people who pass the 11 plus still sometimes choose to go to the High School as they are just as good.

I have to say I am disappointed in the education my DS is getting in the Las Vegas compared to the UK. But I do feel it is a little better for my DD as she gets more help here.

Hope this is of some help:)

Re: The Real NHS
 

Hi formula

I don't know the rules regarding private dentists taking on kids as NHS, but I have been to two, one very expensive dentist that still took my kids on as NHS and one cheaper costs that did as well.

I am sure that they don't have to, but choose to.

I can't comment on recent adult NHS as I've not used them regularly over 7 years and the short time I did I would say I wasn't impressed.

But the two private I used, one charged £60 for check up and clean and one charged £45, like any business they charge what the want. I do know that my UK friend here needs something doing to her teeth, but here it would cost her $5000 with no insurance and at home £1500 (approx $2380), so shes waiting till she goes home next year. My private dentist at home offered insurance at £15 a month that discounted treatment by 50%, but again varies massively depending on companies and dentists.

I admit that dentists in the US are better that most at home but costs are beyond what we can pay, its only because my husbands company pays 100% that we can manage. So its probably a case of making sure you find that good dentist in your area and not rely on the NHS when it comes to being an adult.

Re: The Real NHS
 

A small observation of mine, and I stress it's just an observation, I don't know if there are facts to back it up.

If you go into a casualty dept. of virtually any NHS hospital between 5.00 p.m. and 7.00 p.m on a Saturday night you'll find the wounded warriors from Saturday afternoons amateur sporting activities, football, rugby etc. I think it's a bonus for social interaction that people can play sport without fear that an injury may cause financial hardship.

Re: The Real NHS
 

I'd have to agree with that.
I have worked in the NHS and Saturday afternoon in the ER can have a lot of sports injuries especially if it's a nice sunny afternoon.
One a good story side. My Sis was a saturday afternoon visitor to the A&E after an accident with her horse, one broken leg, one smashed knee and a lot of Orthopaedic surgery and wonderful care later she was fine for many years, now living in Spain she needs a new knee, no idea when that will happen she has private insurance through her work.
I haven't been a patient in the NHS as far as I can remember. But as a nurse I loved working at the local hospital.

Re: The Real NHS
 

I just want to say that I am 25 and went to the dentist here in the US and wanted a bit of work, he said he can only do a little bit of the work and it would be $8,500 and then another couple of grand for a specialist for the things he couldn't do!! I don't care what anyone says, NHS all the way or even Private dentistry in the UK! They rip you off here in everything!

Re: The Real NHS
 

We have a saying here in Canada :
If you are a vetinarian or dentist and not a millionaire by the time you are 50 you are doing something wrong!

Saying that, there are some honest dentist here who if they know you do not have insurance will charge you a reasonable rate. The first thing they say to you if you need work is "you need a crown" then when you say you don't have the money, then a "couple of pins and large filling" is the order of the day! Best to get a dentist and vet here by word of mouth

In our old town in UK I noticed that two private practices were offering NHS services which is comforting as we may end up back there!

Re: The Real NHS
 

MITFH
Thanks for the info on dentists and schools, much appreciated!

Re: The Real NHS
 

So true, my friend went to a dentist here in the US just after she left the UK. He recommended alot of work that was really expensive, including having her wisdom teeth out. She had only just had her teeth checked before she had left the UK by a dentist she had been to as a child.

She held off having the work done and on her next visit to the UK popped into see her old dentist who confirmed none of the work needed doing including her perfect wisdom teeth that had never caused her any pain.:thumbsup:

My kids have had dealing with a dentist in the US and I've been very happy with him. Different story with the orthodontist, kids recommend to have over $8000 each. Went back to the dentist who actually said one of my children didn't need it because as she grows her teeth will have enough room.

My kids teeth are normal not a mess:blink:

Which ever country you are in there will be good and bad dentists and costs will vary. I just wanted to point out that it is really hard to get onto an NHS dentist list. But there are people on them and people can be lucky on their return.

Re: The Real NHS
 

For anyone who is returning, here is a site which you can use to see which dentists are accepting NHS patients http://www.nhs.uk/servicedirectories...ceType=Dentist

As has been discussed, some will only be taking on children, others will accept both adults and children.

We came back to the UK a couple of years ago and had no problem finding an NHS dentist - there were a couple in our area that were accepting patients.

Re: The Real NHS
 

Ditto, both times we've moved in the past 6 yrs we've had no problems finding a NHS dentist. Our current one is in a brand new clinic and great.

And I can't fault the NHS, we've unfortunately had lots of cause to use it over the years and never had an issue. My son is particularly accident prone so we've done several trips to the local A&E since moving here a year ago, and have always been seen pretty quickly. What's really nice is that our hospital has a separate children's A&E with its own entrance and toys, kids tv etc. So for instance, the time we were there at midnight on a Saturday, my 5 yr old son didn't have to see all the drunken eejits with heads split open etc.

Re: The Real NHS
 

And if you hang around for another 4 or 5 hours, you can say the same thing about poisoning yourself with stupid amounts of booze.

Re: The Real NHS
 

HAHAHAHAHA Funny because it's true!

Re: The Real NHS
 

Not if you work in A&E and have to deal with the influx of (often agressive) boneheads.

Re: The Real NHS
 

Correct. I have so much respect for front line NHS workers. I laugh here in the US because ignoring inner city ER's, most hospital workers here are overpaid buffoons who fanny around with clipboards and chat with colleagues over coffee or stand around doing nothing. They have no real medical skills beyond looking at the computer to see what it gives as a diagnosis and then incorrectly bill your insurance all the time for the privilege of using their "service".

I know it is fiction, but watch Casualty or Holby City and you will see the "real life" (beautiful) NHS in action.

Re: The Real NHS
 

10 years ago my second US dentist quoted me $25,000 for dental work. now I am no Brad Pitt but my teeth are not that bad! I did use to own a wife :p. I should have realized as the dentist casually was conversing with me about homes where I lived etc. It was all about sizing me up for the $$. 10 years later and several dentists later I have had none of the work suggested done and no issues. In fact my next US dentist laughed when I told them.

Unfortunately, in the land of the f..., opportunism is seen as a God given right and I am sure that with the practiced 'patter' that same dentist probably hooked two or three unsuspecting victims each month or week for all I know.

Imho, they are rarely looking out for your welfare.

Re: The Real NHS
 

... or watch "24 hours in A&E" (ITV? Channel 4?) and see a factual account of "real life" in the NHS.

I have nothing but respect for what they do but acute annoyance for the BS they have to put up with. Grown adults behaving like badly-behaved schoolkids.

The outrageous bonuses paid to mealy-mouthed, self-serving financial sector execs should be redistributed among front line NHS, police and rescue services, IMO.

Re: The Real NHS
 

AGREE! :-) - and I'm a Tory free marketeer!

Re: The Real NHS
 

I watch that program here on BBC Canada and like you am amazed at their patience and the badly behaved. At least it is a true life drama and not hollywood remake of what they think should be an ER!

Re: The Real NHS
 

Hahahaha like that terrible American soap... "General Hospital" - hahahahaha!:rofl:

Re: The Real NHS
 

Now I can only give my own personal experience of the NHS since being back and i would hate to come across as overly positive :)
Unfortunately one of our boys broke his arm around 7 weeks ago, right at the start of the summer school holidays. Took him to hospital where he received fantastic care and we had no complaints at all. His ongoing 'aftercare' has also been great. We took him to the local doctors surgery to have his dressing changed where they removed the wire. They gave us 10 new dressings and a padded protective 'sock'. No charge and no fuss.
I can only compare to our experiences in Australia of course, not America. I had 2 operations in my time there, one on my knee and one on my back and on both occassions I returned home with a bad infection.
Hospitals in both countries seem under staffed and with recently announced cuts back in Australia that could become worse.
The major difference in Australia is the huge cost of dental work, even private dental treatment here is very affordable by comparison.
I would have to say that overall the NHS does an incredible job but as with any system there are problems.

Re: The Real NHS
 

Quality of care in the NHS does seem to be a bit of a postcode lottery, and resources are stretched. Don't expect fancy surroundings, privacy, etc., like you get in the US, or a host of diagnostic tests before they decide what's wrong with you. And don't expect non-emergency treatment to occur in a hurry (I'm due for surgery later this year, culminating from a visit to the GP almost three years ago - it seemed like everything occurred in 6-9 month intervals).

But you won't have to worry about becoming bankrupt, unlike the US.

I think that the quality of care is overall better in the US, for those with decent insurance or are wealthy enough to cover the costs - problem is, these are in the privileged minority. And even if (like I was) you are lucky enough to have employer-covered health insurance, you can still end up spending a fortune on co-pays, deductibles, etc., if you have any major treatment.

As I alluded to in an earlier thread, perhaps the most upsetting thing about the NHS for me is that taxpayers' money is wasted on people who self-inflict their need for medical treatment.

Re: The Real NHS
 

Does that mean you would like to see maternity services no longer offered on the NHS? That's self inflicted and can be avoided, no? :)

Re: The Real NHS
 

I'm not so sure it is "self" inflicted - although it's a while since I took GCSE biology. :rofl:

Re: The Real NHS
 

Hahahaha!!

Dunroving you are right, re the US - even with expensive employer covered healthcare the co-pays and deductibles ruin you. This is one reason my parents are looking at returning to the UK from here in the US as my mother spends $500 a month for EMPLOYER healthcare for herself and my Dad and then spends thousands each of year on copays and deductibles. I think her insurance starts to kick in around November each year..meaning that she probably enjoys just a few visits/scripts that they completely cover!

Ironically she had some outpatient surgery last that would have cost more with the insurance so opted to pay cash instead!

Re: The Real NHS
 

But the crown would probably be the better treatment, long term. Every filling weakens a tooth, and if it's cracked and eventually splits it probably can't be saved. I don't think it's always that dentists are looking to make money, and in my experience really good dentists have a waiting list. They don't have to squeeze money out of those they have, but they do feel passionately about saving teeth.

Bev

Re: The Real NHS
 

we registered with an NHS dentist who checked our teeth without even touching them (how can they tell if there are any problems?)

Speaking to medical folk, they said that many of the newly qualified not very competent dentists g under the NHS flag...certainly true for the one we registered with.

Re-registered with a private dentist and the difference was remarkable- and of course more expensive but definitely hugely better.

Re: The Real NHS
 

Last week I was off duty in my local supermarket when I got accosted by a man who'd been a patient of mine the week before. He came up to me saying "Where do I know you from?" I shook my head and said "Sir we don't know each other!" and tried to walk away. He got annoyed and grabbed my arm and said "I DO know you, why are you saying I don't?" I removed my arm, smiled sweetly, leaned over and whispered in his ear "The last time I saw you sir you were blind drunk, had a fight with the bouncers, cut your arm open and lost a lot of blood. You called me a c*** and kicked me even though I was trying to help you. Eventually you passed out on the back of my ambulance and then proceeded to s*** yourself. I'm the paramedic that came out to you that night." The look of horror on his face was priceless as he muttered 'Um sorry!" and shuffled away................. :rofl:

In reply to some of the other posts I always have my dental work carried out in the UK when I am on holidays. I have to go private but I find its a third of the cost of Australia and far better quality of work IMO. Hopefully I can find an NHS dentist to sign up with when I am back though :nod:

Re: The Real NHS
 

I work for state of MA and I'm on the state health plan. I also get half my premiums paid by the state agency I work for so I only pay 1/8th the cost of the insurance premium and that works out to be $55/month. I have no deductible either. I've had great care for some out patient surgery, but some poor care from my initial Primary Care Physician who ordered useless tests and tried to give me drugs that I didn't need.

My experience of the NHS has been as a child with orthodentic work which was good and with family members. Their care has also been good with the proviso that wait for non-critical surgeries like my mum's cataracts were a couple of months. My mum also has drug/diet controlled diabetes and here doctors are excellent at monitoring her blood. I visited her a year ago and she complained that she's had a sore on her shin for about a week. This is dangerous for diabetics because of poor circulation and healing so I insisted she call the doctor and he came to the house that morning and dressed the wound. A nurse followed up visiting every other day for a couple of weeks to change the dressing and make sure it was healing.

My experience is that the NHS is that treatment is good, but it's sometimes inconvenient, whereas when you have care in the US it's good and you can get things done quicker......if you have good insurance.

The guarantee of universal care and lack of worry when out of work make the UK system better in my book, but we have to make sure those things are not lost. Having access to the NHS is a big reason for me planning to retire in the UK as U plan to do that a number of years before I reach medicare age. Living in MA you must be insured and cannot be refused coverage, but it will still cost me $500/month for a high deductible policy if I leave work and have to buy on the private market.

Re: The Real NHS
 

*disbelief* - NO DEDUCTIBLE?

Not to politicise this thread but you said you work for the state and get a great deal on insurance... surprise surprise politicians making sure that government departments get a "cushdy" (to quote Del Boy) deal on healthcare...bad luck if in the private sector like the rest of us! ;-)

Also $500 per month "on your own" is actually a good deal too - Florida has ridiculous rates because of the number of OAP's/Senior Citizens.

I pay for my health insurance myself as I am classified as self employed...however even when I had employer health insurance they would review it each year and at one time the new company they were bringing on was going to triple premiums...so we all were forced to drop it...and get our own plans (if we could, many couldn't..I had to fight to get mine!)

Anyhow...I shall just say...

$55 per month sounds lovely mate...! Enjoy it! :-) :thumbsup:

Perhaps now that I am a dual citizen I should look for a nice cushdy govt. job with such nice beneifts. :p:p:p

Re: The Real NHS
 

MA provides good benefits to it's employees. The fact that most US employers provide terrible health benefits that are expensive should not be a reason to reduce the reasonable benefits of others. In the US health insurance market I am glad of my benefits and know they are far better than most people's, but that does not make them excessive. It just points out the very poor nature of health insurance coverage for most Americans.

MA has Romneycare and mandates that everyone must have health insurance so 98% of MA residents have it. If you loose your job you have to buy a state approved insurance plan. You can compare plans and costs on a state website.

https://www.mahealthconnector.org/portal/site/connector

As a 51 year old single male I can get a $2k deductible and $5k annual out of pocket max plan for between $350 and $650 a month depending on the insurer and network of hospitals I can automatically access. Also if you have income below 3x poverty level you qualify for the state's own subsidized plan called Commonwealth Care.

The second phase of reform is now in process that will try to control costs. MA is moving away form fee for service and is about to mandate that premiums can not increase more than the state's annual GDP growth.

Re: The Real NHS
 

Thanks for providing detail. I certainly appreciate it. Particularly right now there are so many people blurring the facts on healthcare in this country. :-)

:thumbsup:

Re: The Real NHS
 

Wouldn't it be nice if there was a decrease of GDP for the state, premiums decreased! :p

However, I hardly think that would happen. Wishful thinking! :rofl:

Re: The Real NHS
 

My family hasn't had a great time with the NHS.

My husband went to the dentist in Feb 2011 with a tooth that needed to be pulled out. It wouldnt numb with local anaesthetic and the dentist was unable to pull it because of that and the state of the tooth. It needed to be done under general. It took them until march 2012 to get it sorted and they sent him to a private hospital because there werent the resources at the NHS one. He was on so many painkillers that he ended up with a stomach ulcer which is STILL being treated now from March.

When my daughter was born in March 2011, they refused to have me at hospital because i "wasnt in labour". Suddenly they see a head and believe me... Turns out they were full and the only room left had a broken shower so they didnt want to use it. I go to use the shower in the corridor leaving my baby with my mum and the midwife. I come back and they have MOVED my baby without my permission and all of my belongings and put it all in the staff room. I wasnt even dressed and had nowhere private to dress. I got sent home 3 hours after the birth.

My daughter had a dairy allergy from birth to 15 months. Everybody refused to believe me until a very kind health visitor forced the doctor to listen.

So in all, we have been treated like numbers and not people with needs. Other than these things, we dont really have hospital or doctor visits so it probably isnt the service on a whole.

I have had 90% positive experiences with staff members too. It is not their fault, there simply seems to be too many people and not enough money. We have a very good dentist and GP (after weeding out a few horrendous ones in the area) and we appreciate what they do for us.

Re: The Real NHS
 

Sorry you have had a tough time. My heart goes out to you. Particularly the dental problems, the UK has issues with teeth and dentists while the US has dentists, they are out of reach financially for those without good dental care.

Interesting that yours is one of the few true negative experiences of the NHS on this thread. As others have said it is a postcode lottery.

I know it shouldn't come down to money, but I have to say that although your experience is bad, a lady I worked with here (another Brit Expat in the US) told me the horrific story of her Granddaughters birth here in the US, the bill? $1.25 million. Thank God it was over a decade ago when the system somewhat worked and insurance covered most of it. Similarly some other Brit Expats I know had a baby a couple of years ago - they prepaid for the birth, a cheaper way of doing it. They paid somewhere around $5-$6k to cover it all. However a small complication involved a night and a day in Hospital. Bill, nothing major. - The bill? $25,000.

These days... you would be lucky to not lose everything in the US if you get a sniffle!

I'd take the NHS any day.

Re: The Real NHS
 

Youre right! The bills are insane, especially for births. Any more children we have will be born in the US (we're waiting for my visa to go over there) and im dreading the bills! I wont even contemplate having another without knowing i have good insurance that will cover it (or most of it) and i know im able to pay the rest.

Re: The Real NHS
 

holly2234 - I notice you are still therefore in the UK, have you had any experience with the US system? I'm just warning you, it isn't pretty and everyone is out to rip you off. If you have good employer based insurance it can be ok, [Employer health insurance is hard to come by these days] but still astronomically expensive. Don't expect also that you are paying for something that you get better service, the NHS often excels in knowledge and service compared to some US providers.

I have another expat friend has heath issues with her husband here, who after numerous visits to specialists over months in lots of pain was told he has liver problems and must drink too much - despite being a teetotaller! She was so worried after getting nowhere here with so many doctors and specialists that she sent him to live in the UK for a while with their grown up daughter and after a trip to Casualty in the UK, they diagnosed him within 10 minutes with congestive heart failure and treated him! NHS 1 US Healthcare 0.

My parents are looking at moving back to the UK for their older years because of the state of healthcare in this country.

PM me if you want any more realistic advice on your move and of course post in the US Immigration section if you haven't already. :-)

Re: The Real NHS
 

Thanks :)

No i personally haven't had much to do with healthcare in the US. My husband lived in the US for his whole life up until two years ago when he came here to live with me and he didnt have much to do with it either since we has been fit and well apart from the above mentioned.

His new employer (when we get there) thankfully provides insurance after 3 months of working for them so that is one bonus! Our daughter is eligible for CHIP (just need to set it up when we get there.)