No other option?

Old Dec 29th 2020, 11:35 pm
  #16  
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Default Re: No other option?

Blunt response
if you leave and go back to England alone then that would be it . You'll be leaving your wife to be a single parent dealing with the day to day minutiae of life. Everything will call to her and then you will swan in every now and then and make it all ok? Eventually you will be catching up, with their lives. You won't be part of them.
Is your wife still adamant that she won't move to a different area ? You wont take the meds, she won't move. There's more to this than disliking Canada. Take the meds, give them a try,
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Old Dec 30th 2020, 1:32 am
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Default Re: No other option?

Originally Posted by bats View Post
Blunt response
if you leave and go back to England alone then that would be it . You'll be leaving your wife to be a single parent dealing with the day to day minutiae of life. Everything will call to her and then you will swan in every now and then and make it all ok? Eventually you will be catching up, with their lives. You won't be part of them.
Is your wife still adamant that she won't move to a different area ? You wont take the meds, she won't move. There's more to this than disliking Canada. Take the meds, give them a try,
Lol. "Take the meds!" Go on, just once...

Since when did getting 'meds' from a doctor be the go-to when a married couple dont agree on something? .....

Last edited by no good name; Dec 30th 2020 at 1:42 am.
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Old Dec 30th 2020, 5:51 am
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Default Re: No other option?

Originally Posted by no good name View Post
Lol. "Take the meds!" Go on, just once...

Since when did getting 'meds' from a doctor be the go-to when a married couple dont agree on something? .....
I have to say, as someone who has taken antidepressants for a number of years, that your view of them is frankly wildly irresponsible. To be honest, I shudder at the prospect that someone else who is struggling with depression might read what you've written here and not take them. Put simply, what you've said about antidepressants does not reflect the reality of taking them. They are a pharmaceutical tool to help you. They're not a drug of dependence (like opioids), so you don't become addicted to them. They are not meant to be magic pills which immediately lift your mood. You should take anti-depressants in conjunction with taking a number of other actions, such as seeing a psychologist or counsellor, getting more exercise, keeping busy, improving your diet, cutting back on drinking (given that alcohol's a depressant)...you don't just take one and sit back and wait for happiness to kick in.

In the worst times of my own depression, I felt like I was trapped in a thick fog. I was utterly miserable, couldn't focus on tasks, felt like I had no energy and would waste weeks (if not months) trying to come up with ways to avoid addressing my problems. When I finally sought help I was prescribed an anti-depressant and also had counselling sessions. I found that anti-depressants actually took the edge off my negative feelings, so I could get up in the morning and think a little more clearly. In turn, that meant I could concentrate more on counselling, and have a clearer idea of how I might change my situation for the better and thus improve my mental health.

From what little I've read of your situation, you have my absolute sympathy, believe me. I also apologise if what I've said above seems hard or unfeeling - that is not my intention - but what you've said in this thread isn't correct. Worse, it may make people who are taking antidepressants feel that they have somehow "failed" for taking medication, when it's actually a completely legitimate and often very necessary form of treatment.

No-one here is suggesting that you take anti-depressants because you've disagreed with your wife; that would be farcical. Instead, what they're pointing out is that you have suffered some tremendous emotional hammer-blows which would inevitably affect your outlook on life, and not for the better. Anti-depressants would be another weapon in your arsenal to combat the negative feelings you have, so you can think clearly about how you want to proceed in your life. You may decide that returning to the UK alone would be best for everyone, including yourself, but you need to ensure that you are making that decision, not your depression.

And it may be the case that you actually do have a chemical imbalance which medication would successfully treat! It's actually a (relatively) common condition for which many many people are routinely treated without ill-effect.

I think you must realise by now that you moving back to the UK alone is very unlikely to result in you remaining married. You say that you have "sensible, practical reasons" for being unhappy in Canada, but then you suggest a "solution" that is neither sensible or practical. That's probably what I find most concerning in what you wrote; it's exactly the kind of solution arrived at by someone suffering with depression. I say that with no negative judgment whatsoever, by the way, just with painful recognition on my part. I could fill warehouses with the impractical solutions to problems I came up with when severely depressed.

What I will say is this. Please do not rush into a decision. You absolutely need to talk to your wife, frankly and honestly, about where your mind is currently at. I would also urge you to speak to your medical practitioner about anti-depressants. You can hit them with any concerns you may have about taking them (and however ridiculous they may sound when you say them out loud) as they will have heard it all before and can discuss them with you in detail. They may even agree that you don't need anti-depressants, and instead suggest other possible treatment avenues. Certainly keep seeing a psychologist or counsellor (although I'm a bit startled that your current one suggested going back to the UK alone, to be honest - that's a huge decision and it should really come from you, not your therapist) and talking through the issues. You've evidently undergone a lot of trauma - just losing a job on its own is extremely tough, and it's happened to you in tandem with other problems. That is as tough as it gets.

Consider also what it might take to convince you to stay in Canada. Would having a job help? I'm surmising that you're currently unemployed based on what you've said in this thread, and also that you understandably seem to be extremely disappointed at having lost a secure position. Might your outlook not improve if you found regular work again?

Whatever happens next, I wish you good luck, better mental health and happier times ahead.
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Old Dec 30th 2020, 10:38 am
  #19  
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Default Re: No other option?

Originally Posted by no good name View Post
Lol. "Take the meds!" Go on, just once...

Since when did getting 'meds' from a doctor be the go-to when a married couple dont agree on something? .....
Nobody is saying that. But you do sound as though you are depressed, and you may just find speaking to a doctor can help (whether they give you meds or not, that's up to their expertise).

I just know that before leaving my kids behind, I would try everything and if that meant medication, or just consulting a doctor about my mental health, I would do it, even if I was sceptical.

It sounds as though you've had a really tough time, but in all honesty, it also sounds like you're blaming the country for things that aren't Canada's fault, and I'm not sure will be sorted with a move back to the UK. I would think things may get worse with a move back to the UK, it certainly won't help your relationship with your children, or your wife. Ultimately, you'd be putting your own happiness above theirs, and I'm not sure that way contentment lies.

Out of interest, what does your wife say when you talk to her about it? You've said she won't move back, but if she knows how unhappy you are would she consider a compromise - maybe a move to a different part of Canada? Is that an option?

Last edited by christmasoompa; Dec 30th 2020 at 12:36 pm.
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Old Dec 30th 2020, 2:39 pm
  #20  
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Default Re: No other option?

I’ve just read this thread and really do feel for you and your situation.
But the last two posters have offered such good good advice - please don’t reject out of hand because of your fear of medication. The one poster has offered some very valuable and revealing experience and I found their post extremely interesting, as someone who has fortunately never needed to go down this path. Thanks for the insight Croker - a very well written and honest account and I wish you well.
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Old Dec 30th 2020, 7:29 pm
  #21  
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Default Re: No other option?

Originally Posted by no good name View Post
Lol. "Take the meds!" Go on, just once...

Since when did getting 'meds' from a doctor be the go-to when a married couple dont agree on something? .....
Since when? Since taking antidepressants will help you, and if you are helped then your marriage is helped.

I wasn't happy here for years, longer than you, and my husband loves it here. I knew that if i said I wanted to go back he would have done so, but I never did. After all there's no guarantee I woukd have been happy if we had returned and he woukd have been miserable. We stayed, I took the meds, things got much better. I wouldn't want to live in England now. But i've said all this before in a previous thread of yours. It seems to me that you're asking for permission to leave your wife and are dressing it up as leaving Canada.


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Old Dec 30th 2020, 9:31 pm
  #22  
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Default Re: No other option?

Originally Posted by bats View Post
Since when? Since taking antidepressants will help you, and if you are helped then your marriage is helped.

I wasn't happy here for years, longer than you, and my husband loves it here. I knew that if i said I wanted to go back he would have done so, but I never did. After all there's no guarantee I woukd have been happy if we had returned and he woukd have been miserable. We stayed, I took the meds, things got much better. I wouldn't want to live in England now. But i've said all this before in a previous thread of yours. It seems to me that you're asking for permission to leave your wife and are dressing it up as leaving Canada.
Reading all these posts I admit it seems me the first step is whether Canada is better for the children now and in the future. If it is then wait until the last one 18 and then OP has the luxury of worrying about his own feelings.
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Old Dec 30th 2020, 10:40 pm
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Default Re: No other option?

Originally Posted by no good name View Post
What else can I do.

Almost 5 years living in Ontario, and still not a day passes I do not regret 'giving' up my life and moving here. (explained it all in other threads) A broken record I know.

Moved here with my wife and 2 young children, (who are now 8 + 10) They are the reason I have 'hung on' so long.. But I can not continue on like this. My mental health (good days and bad) has been affected.

It is not just 'homesickness' or pathetic emotional reasons I am not happy being here, it is (in my mind anyway) sensible, practical reasons.

So, I have asked this question before. But more directly :
Has anyone had experience of moving back home to the UK (alone) whilst other family members have remained?

I don't know if I am clutching at straws looking for a similar scenario that I can take some sort consolation/confirmation that it could work....

I try justify it in my head that my wife and I would still remain married, I would still support the kids financially, and obviously still be there for them emotionally, albeit more remotely. I would 'visit' 2-3 times per year. The kids would come over during school summer + winter holidays..

But for someone who grew up without a 'dad', it really is hard for me to contemplate this.....
It is hard of course to generalize of course, but since you asked.

I had a relative who tried the same thing, and it wasn't easy especially as the kids got older- a child 10 years old quite different than a 15 year old during the summer. It easy with Skype or Zoom etc. My father had times in his career where he was away long periods, once for a year during a time when even making a phone
call home from where he was at was difficult, and I travel a fair amount away from home at times. I do believe besides the issue of what is best for your children you will find a gaping hole in your life if you are not around your children regularly.

Besides the issue of vacations, there is the issue of day to day knowledge of the lives of your children, and direct or indirect influence you can have. We read all the time about the effect on boys of not having a father in the house especially as teenagers- but if one of your children a girl, you may wish to read up on the effect of a father not being at home on a girl's self esteem and confidence, academic success, let alone other things that can happen in a girl's life. While generalizations of course, but a recent lecture I heard on TED was quite astonishing the correlations discussed. I write this as re-reading your posts looking for any helpful advice or observations I might give, I would have thought the main factor is what is best for your children as a first decision.

So without knowing your situation if your children are fine in Canada, or better off in Canada, I would think your first duty is to your children not your own feelings justified or not- and if you need to take meds , take them, your two children deserve to have you at home- and if you have to take enough meds to be a half Zombie so what - maybe you won't be as happy as you would like, but I doubt you will regret putting your kids first, and your simple presence may preclude problems for your kids you cant even foresee right now.

I have been unemployed, and I take it you may be unemployed. A real downer on ego, perspective and effect on decision making. But doing exercise, going to the gym, maybe taking a part time job for a day or two per week whatever - sitting pumping out resumes I found quite soul destroying by doing only that, and especially on top your existing mental state

If you have a boy what a great opportunity for the two of you !. Take him away just the two of you fishing (whether you fish or not) or some activity in the country, whether on holiday or just take him out of school for a week or two, better two weeks. He will always remember and I suspect two weeks just you and your son might do wonders to clear your head. (And perhaps your wife may appreciate two weeks of less of a burden).

I really empathize with your situation having had relative with a similar situation- for whatever it is worth I would give yourself a break and take the meds if necessary for at least two months, then maybe look at again but give your self a mental break in the meantime. your happiness is a luxury, what is best for your children a necessity. (I could very wrong but I suspect if your wife sees your efforts to deal with adversity in a confident and determined manner with actions and not words, discussions with her after 2 months may be a bit easier.) If you feel your issues unsurmountable then just accept for two months you will concentrate on what you can do now, and just get whatever medical help. You will probably make a better decision after 2 months than you would today,

Best of luck !

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Old Dec 31st 2020, 2:58 pm
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Default Re: No other option?

Originally Posted by tumbleweedly View Post
Is it your wife's job that is keeping her in Canada?

I'm having a difficult time accepting there is no good ground upon which you can discuss going back together to your natural country.


I wouldn't take antidepressants, no way. I would investigate how I could make life in Ontario more pleasing to myself and seems your spouse could offer some support or suggestions about that. As you can also offer something to her as a bargaining point for returning to your natural roots and country.

If you could understand what it is particularly your wife loves about Ontario vs your original area in UK you might be able to get somewhere in communications that would benefit at least more investigation about going back for the two of you.
I can only give my point of view of course. But in a nutshell no, my wife is not tied to a job / career here that is preventing her from moving back / moving area in the GTA..

Again in a nutshell, she "just prefers it here" She prefers "the atmosphere"..... and is adamant "it's better for the kids to grow up here"

And you know what, fine, I get it. If she feels "better"/ "happier"" within herself by just being here (regardless of our shaky financial situation and uncertain future, or her husbands opinion) then who am I to question that. We all have 'feelings' about things that we just can't fully explain, and probably shouldn't need to justify to anyone.

A bit like me in reverse I suppose..


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Old Dec 31st 2020, 4:33 pm
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Default Re: No other option?

How is your wife going to cope financially if you go back to the UK? Even if you contribute (you'll have your own accommodation etc to finance in the UK) does she earn enough to cover rental, utilities, food etc etc for herself and two children?
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Old Dec 31st 2020, 6:04 pm
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Default Re: No other option?

Originally Posted by no good name View Post
I can only give my point of view of course. But in a nutshell no, my wife is not tied to a job / career here that is preventing her from moving back / moving area in the GTA..

Again in a nutshell, she "just prefers it here" She prefers "the atmosphere"..... and is adamant "it's better for the kids to grow up here"

And you know what, fine, I get it. If she feels "better"/ "happier"" within herself by just being here (regardless of our shaky financial situation and uncertain future, or her husbands opinion) then who am I to question that. We all have 'feelings' about things that we just can't fully explain, and probably shouldn't need to justify to anyone.

A bit like me in reverse I suppose..
Just curious- if one forgets all the feelings about this or that by either parent, objectively what is better for the children ?
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Old Dec 31st 2020, 10:41 pm
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Default Re: No other option?

Once again, it seems to me that the OP really wants people here on the Forum to give him permission to go back to the UK and thus have a long-distance relationship with his wife.

I think there has only been one real different suggestion made on this thread from previous threads ...... and that was the strong suggestion backed by several people that there is nothing wrong with taking medication to see if that helps with what appears to be a severe depression on the OP's part.

However, none of us are professionals, none of us know all the parties in person, and we are only hearing one side of the discussion. I for one would love to know what his wife thinks and wants, out of her own mouth and not filtered.

I would also like to hear from the children ............ even small children have opinions, and know a heck a lot more of their parents' lives and longings than one hopes they do!
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Old Jan 1st 2021, 5:05 am
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Default Re: No other option?

Just to clarify, I think all of us who suggested that medication was an option are in agreement that he should only go down that route on the advice of a doctor. It was the OP’s dismissing it out of hand that bothered me.

I too would like to hear from the wife. Any old hands out there who can remember an instance where a poster persuaded their partner to chip in with their side of the story? OP, an opportunity to make britishexpat forum history awaits you on this the first day of 2021!
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Old Jan 5th 2021, 4:59 pm
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Default Re: No other option?

Originally Posted by morpeth View Post
Just curious- if one forgets all the feelings about this or that by either parent, objectively what is better for the children ?
We had friends who lived overseas the husband was the wage earner and they had a "fantastic" lifestyle only the husband was not that happy with work, the country but he really did make a go of it without being a "hero" about it all and they stayed for quite a number of years...until he lost his job and they had to return to the UK...the wife left him and admitted quite a while later that they would of spilt up if they had lived in the UK and that living the lifestyle she enjoyed overseas had glued them together for much longer than they shout of...all this came as a surprise to the husband...maybe all I am saying is that life happens, children can be involved but we are on the world for such a short time and as long as you have "given things as good go" and tried all options then sometimes you just have to move on.
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Old Jan 6th 2021, 4:56 am
  #30  
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Default Re: No other option?

But maybe it was a good thing for the children that living overseas « glued » the parents together for longer. We’ll never know, will we.
I fell in love/lust with someone else many years ago and if my husband had been in a position to fend for himself financially, I would have walked. As it was, however, we were « glued » together by poverty and I stayed. 20 years on, I’m very glad I did. The lust for the other guy wore off after a while and, very slowly, over the years I went on to develop a fantastic bond with my husband.

I think the OP and his wife need marriage counseling to help them decide whether they really have reached the end of the line or whether this is just a rocky patch.
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