Moving Children: LTR and court orders
Dec 13th 2010, 7:23 pm
#61
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2003
Location:
Posts: 525
Re: Moving Children: LTR and court orders
Ok.
Thanks Sue!
Thanks Sue!
Dec 15th 2010, 8:19 pm
#62
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2010
Location: east midlands uk
Posts: 47
Re: Moving Children: LTR and court orders
wow seems i missed alot the last couple days ...I understand the concerns of everyone completely and are taking everything on board but.. i had to add alot of people are getting this all wrong completely and im starting to feel asthough noone is actually reading what IM putting? ..
To apply for a LTR i need to show that my plans are concrete, i have put thought into this, i have plans for childrens education, i can support my children, show proof of accomadation , have support out there etc etc. It ist about whether i love him , whether we should or shouldnt get married or how much my oh is willing to move here or loves me. It is whther this would be the best option for the children . all of which i am trying to get together , including emails and online info, for the process.
I have already stated that 2 of the fathers are considering it when i can show al above so they are more aware of my plans and can see the facts for themself.
Im not taking my kids out of country, which for less then 28 days i could , I am travelling..
Of course they have bonded to him but no not met him , they have video calls with me and him for a very long time durng week and weekend phone calls etc ..
As i have stated aswell
the reason we are going down this road is because it would be better for us to move there then stay here and him move , if it wasnt then .. we wouldnt be doing it this way last resort if we dont get permission to relocate the children, if the visas dont get accepted, then yes he is willing to sell up and move here ..
all this i have already said
maybe if people have such strong views they really should read MY posts before commenting half way through this . I am very aware this is going to be hard, difficult and if not almost impossible. BUT like i have ALSO stated several times, if i have shown myself to have the kids in mind and have reassure the childrens fathers then i feel i have a good chance and would appreciate helpful advice not judgemental, half informed opions ..
and thanks sue
Dec 15th 2010, 8:26 pm
#63
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2010
Location: east midlands uk
Posts: 47
Re: Moving Children: LTR and court orders
Gotta say... this seems like a very sensible point that needs making.
Rach1015, where is your husband-to-be right now? Isn't he able to help you out with all this? How would he feel about moving to the UK instead, while you sort all these issues out? Does he have a job with transferable skills, and is he able to leave his home and family for a while?
You need a super-watertight case for USCIS at the best of times... it will have to be extra bonded for a situation like this.
Oh, and just to offer my 'two cents' like Meauxna said
: PLEASE don't take the children out of school for any visits, or interrupt their schooling mid-year to immigrate if you can AT ALL avoid it. If and when it happens, let them finish their school year and say goodbye properly. Trying to join a new school in a foreign country is hard enough; trying to join it mid-year is even worse.
And taking them out of school for holidays to the USA (whether you have/need permission or not) will not buy you any favours in court. Leave it for half terms and summer holidays.
Rach1015, where is your husband-to-be right now? Isn't he able to help you out with all this? How would he feel about moving to the UK instead, while you sort all these issues out? Does he have a job with transferable skills, and is he able to leave his home and family for a while?
You need a super-watertight case for USCIS at the best of times... it will have to be extra bonded for a situation like this.
Oh, and just to offer my 'two cents' like Meauxna said
: PLEASE don't take the children out of school for any visits, or interrupt their schooling mid-year to immigrate if you can AT ALL avoid it. If and when it happens, let them finish their school year and say goodbye properly. Trying to join a new school in a foreign country is hard enough; trying to join it mid-year is even worse.And taking them out of school for holidays to the USA (whether you have/need permission or not) will not buy you any favours in court. Leave it for half terms and summer holidays.
i wouldnt take them out of school mid term to travel thats why i would only be able to take them for 2 weeks in school holidays ..
As many people on this forum will understand , if he could be here for everything then that would be perfect but that doesnt happen, he has work, has his own children and responsibilitys right now and as we are saving we are trying to travel as little as possible right now as the court proceedings and visa is going to swollow all our money when it starts. otherwise he would be here helping but there isnt much he can do but hold my hand, this part of it all is my battle
when we do move then of course it will be end of school year
Dec 15th 2010, 10:02 pm
#64
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Aug 2009
Location: Silicone Valley
Posts: 1,730
Re: Moving Children: LTR and court orders
: im starting to feel asthough noone is actually reading what IM putting? ..
Of course they have bonded to him but no not met him , they have video calls with me and him for a very long time durng week and weekend phone calls etc ..
maybe if people have such strong views they really should read MY posts before commenting half way through this . I am very aware this is going to be hard, difficult and if not almost impossible. BUT like i have ALSO stated several times, if i have shown myself to have the kids in mind and have reassure the childrens fathers then i feel i have a good chance and would appreciate helpful advice not judgemental, half informed opions ..
and thanks sue
Of course they have bonded to him but no not met him , they have video calls with me and him for a very long time durng week and weekend phone calls etc ..
maybe if people have such strong views they really should read MY posts before commenting half way through this . I am very aware this is going to be hard, difficult and if not almost impossible. BUT like i have ALSO stated several times, if i have shown myself to have the kids in mind and have reassure the childrens fathers then i feel i have a good chance and would appreciate helpful advice not judgemental, half informed opions ..
and thanks sue
I've read all of your posts and in a nutshell, you intend to leave your 3 children for 5 weeks, fly to the USA, get married to a man they have never met, return here and convince CAFCASS, then a family Judge that this is in their best interest, then you are going to attempt to convince UCIS the same.
Again good luck, although you are going to need more than that I'm sure!
Last edited by traceym; Dec 15th 2010 at 10:11 pm.
Dec 15th 2010, 10:10 pm
#65
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 308
Re: Moving Children: LTR and court orders
From what you've written I dont believe that, not that I matter but.........
I've read all of your posts and in a nutshell, you intend to leave your 3 children for 5 weeks, fly to the USA, get married to a man they have never met, return here and convince CAFCASS, then an immigration Judge that this is in their best interest, then you are going to attempt to convince UCIS the same.
Again good luck, although you are going to need more than that I'm sure!
I've read all of your posts and in a nutshell, you intend to leave your 3 children for 5 weeks, fly to the USA, get married to a man they have never met, return here and convince CAFCASS, then an immigration Judge that this is in their best interest, then you are going to attempt to convince UCIS the same.
Again good luck, although you are going to need more than that I'm sure!
Dec 15th 2010, 10:22 pm
#67
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 308
Re: Moving Children: LTR and court orders
wow seems i missed alot the last couple days ...I understand the concerns of everyone completely and are taking everything on board but.. i had to add alot of people are getting this all wrong completely and im starting to feel asthough noone is actually reading what IM putting? ..
To apply for a LTR i need to show that my plans are concrete, i have put thought into this, i have plans for childrens education, i can support my children, show proof of accomadation , have support out there etc etc. It ist about whether i love him , whether we should or shouldnt get married or how much my oh is willing to move here or loves me. It is whther this would be the best option for the children . all of which i am trying to get together , including emails and online info, for the process.
I have already stated that 2 of the fathers are considering it when i can show al above so they are more aware of my plans and can see the facts for themself.
Im not taking my kids out of country, which for less then 28 days i could , I am travelling..
Of course they have bonded to him but no not met him , they have video calls with me and him for a very long time durng week and weekend phone calls etc ..
As i have stated aswell
the reason we are going down this road is because it would be better for us to move there then stay here and him move , if it wasnt then .. we wouldnt be doing it this way last resort if we dont get permission to relocate the children, if the visas dont get accepted, then yes he is willing to sell up and move here ..
all this i have already said
maybe if people have such strong views they really should read MY posts before commenting half way through this . I am very aware this is going to be hard, difficult and if not almost impossible. BUT like i have ALSO stated several times, if i have shown myself to have the kids in mind and have reassure the childrens fathers then i feel i have a good chance and would appreciate helpful advice not judgemental, half informed opions ..
and thanks sue
If you don't mind me asking, how long have your known your fiance? You don't need to answer the question in this forum as it's personal but I think it's something you need to think about. Although the length of the relationship is not something that USCIS look at it is something that the Family Court will scrutinize. To reiterate I believe that leaving your children to marry a man they have never met in person will not go down well with CAFCASS or the Family Court. Honestly, you have to start looking at this from the other side of the tracks.
You are set on moving your children (in a recent post you say "when we move..." but I think you might want to prepare yourself for "if". I am only offering advice that I, at one time, would have been grateful for. Unfortunately, advice whether or not you see it as helpful is not always what you want to hear.
Last edited by jeepgirluk; Dec 15th 2010 at 10:34 pm. Reason: A question I asked the OP is really for her and edited to explain.
Dec 16th 2010, 8:55 am
#68
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2010
Location: east midlands uk
Posts: 47
Re: Moving Children: LTR and court orders
If you don't mind me asking, how long have your known your fiance? You don't need to answer the question in this forum as it's personal but I think it's something you need to think about. Although the length of the relationship is not something that USCIS look at it is something that the Family Court will scrutinize. To reiterate I believe that leaving your children to marry a man they have never met in person will not go down well with CAFCASS or the Family Court. Honestly, you have to start looking at this from the other side of the tracks.
You are set on moving your children (in a recent post you say "when we move..." but I think you might want to prepare yourself for "if". I am only offering advice that I, at one time, would have been grateful for. Unfortunately, advice whether or not you see it as helpful is not always what you want to hear.
Oh and im taking all advice, although there doesnt seem to be any postitive thoughts or comments as of yet
Dec 16th 2010, 9:00 am
#69
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2010
Location: east midlands uk
Posts: 47
Re: Moving Children: LTR and court orders
From what you've written I dont believe that, not that I matter but.........
I've read all of your posts and in a nutshell, you intend to leave your 3 children for 5 weeks, fly to the USA, get married to a man they have never met, return here and convince CAFCASS, then a family Judge that this is in their best interest, then you are going to attempt to convince UCIS the same.
Again good luck, although you are going to need more than that I'm sure!
I've read all of your posts and in a nutshell, you intend to leave your 3 children for 5 weeks, fly to the USA, get married to a man they have never met, return here and convince CAFCASS, then a family Judge that this is in their best interest, then you are going to attempt to convince UCIS the same.
Again good luck, although you are going to need more than that I'm sure!
Dec 16th 2010, 9:07 am
#70
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2010
Location: east midlands uk
Posts: 47
Re: Moving Children: LTR and court orders
Is Colorado different than many communities in the US? Meaning that your children go to school affixed to their living jurisdiction. You cannot pick and choose which you prefer. At least on the elementary school level and since Mr. Fiancee has 180 acres and a house they are moving to, it would seem that the school chosing might well be done already.
Dec 16th 2010, 9:13 am
#71
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2010
Location: east midlands uk
Posts: 47
Re: Moving Children: LTR and court orders
Isn't it best to get permission from the fathers FIRST, before looking about schools, etc for the kids ...?
I mean - seems to me, one can always do the leg work on the "schools, kids clubs, principals", etc, later on down the line.
But if there's no permission from the fathers, then that sorting is all for naught.
Rach1015 - you don't think all energies, efforts, monies, time and focus, should be on permission first ... ?
(no sarcasm here - just curious)
I mean - seems to me, one can always do the leg work on the "schools, kids clubs, principals", etc, later on down the line.
But if there's no permission from the fathers, then that sorting is all for naught.
Rach1015 - you don't think all energies, efforts, monies, time and focus, should be on permission first ... ?
(no sarcasm here - just curious)
Dec 16th 2010, 9:29 am
#72
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2010
Location: east midlands uk
Posts: 47
Re: Moving Children: LTR and court orders
Well like a lot of people your read things on the web and believe you are an expert.
These are orders issued under Sec 8 Child Abduction Act and are not binding on police. They are civil court orders
An criminal allegation of child abduction under Sec 1 of the Act trumps a Sec 8 order. You meet me leaving the UK with your Sec 8 order and I don't think it is your intention to return, don't have to prove just think it is a possibility, and one of the fathers has made an allegation under Sec 1 you hear the magic words, you are under arrest on suspicion of child abduction.
As part of my job I spent 5 years at SO12 Heathrow and 5 years as a Controller in the SO12 National Ports Office advising on child abduction and preventing, or allowing children to be taken from the UK. As I have said on here before, there is a big difference between reading something on the web and understanding it, and knowing how it all works in practice. There is one over riding rule with children leaving the UK. If there is ANY doubt they are legally being taken from the UK, they are NOT allowed to leave.
But you carry on. You are a disaster waiting to happen and all I was trying to do was offer some advice that might prevent you digging a hole for yourself that might have scuppered your future plans. I obviously wasted my time thinking you wanted some useful advise from someone who was professionally involved with the process, and saw it first hand when the world went tits up for a parent who found themselves in a police cell.
I hope you achieve what you want, I have grave doubts about it.
These are orders issued under Sec 8 Child Abduction Act and are not binding on police. They are civil court orders
An criminal allegation of child abduction under Sec 1 of the Act trumps a Sec 8 order. You meet me leaving the UK with your Sec 8 order and I don't think it is your intention to return, don't have to prove just think it is a possibility, and one of the fathers has made an allegation under Sec 1 you hear the magic words, you are under arrest on suspicion of child abduction.
As part of my job I spent 5 years at SO12 Heathrow and 5 years as a Controller in the SO12 National Ports Office advising on child abduction and preventing, or allowing children to be taken from the UK. As I have said on here before, there is a big difference between reading something on the web and understanding it, and knowing how it all works in practice. There is one over riding rule with children leaving the UK. If there is ANY doubt they are legally being taken from the UK, they are NOT allowed to leave.
But you carry on. You are a disaster waiting to happen and all I was trying to do was offer some advice that might prevent you digging a hole for yourself that might have scuppered your future plans. I obviously wasted my time thinking you wanted some useful advise from someone who was professionally involved with the process, and saw it first hand when the world went tits up for a parent who found themselves in a police cell.
I hope you achieve what you want, I have grave doubts about it.
I have respect for what you are saying believe me and i understand you know what your talking about. However, unless the fathers put in for a prohibited steps order under the fear of me not returning ( which they know and i have spoke to them about it, is not going to happen ) then why on earth would i not be able to take them abroad for 2 weeks?
Dec 16th 2010, 12:28 pm
#73
Wondering if...
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: Clarence, NY
Posts: 1,213
Re: Moving Children: LTR and court orders
The children are the most important factor in this and if for one second they didnt want to go then i wouldnt be doing this....My middle daughter has concerns about schools out there and how she will be treated as "different" which i have put her mind to rest and explained about different ehtnic groups and how there will be children from all backgrounds there.
Yes, there may be a range of ethnic groups at the school, but the probability is that all those kids are going to be 'American'. Your daughter will stand out as 'not American' and will be seen as "different". If you have put her mind at rest with that explanation then you are doing her a severe disservice, whether because it suits your plans or because you haven't got a clue what you are letting them in for.
We moved a couple of years ago with 2 children. Chalk and cheese. One loves to be the centre of attention and is quite happy being "different" in respect of accent, heritage, etc. The other desperately wants to fit in, to not be different in any way, and that has had a significant effect on his happiness, how he has settled, etc. If your daughter is, before the move, expressing such concerns, then you should work actively to address them and be prepared to manage that situation once you have moved, and not gloss over the concern with what I see as uninformed twaddle.
Dec 16th 2010, 12:37 pm
#74
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Apr 2008
Location: Hérault (34)
Posts: 8,888
Re: Moving Children: LTR and court orders
HI, I've been following this and agree with all the advice given so far, but have kept it to myself. However, I can't not react to the above statement, which is new to me but I must have missed a post, that HE HAS HIS OWN CHILDREN!
An already complicated business is now even more complicated.
So, your American boyfriend and your children have never met. His children and your children have never met. Even if you have met them, do you seriously think that step-father, step-mother and all children will live in harmony ever after? They might live with their mother, but you'll still be step-mother when he has custody. How are they reacting to the idea of their Dad taking on another family, foreign, at that? They'll naturally be afraid of losing his love, and, let's face it, of sharing his money, and will resent you, whatever they show outwardly.
Before fighting the three fathers before the Court to allow their children to leave the country, the future well-being of your children must be selflessly considered - thrown in at the deep-end with a man they don't know and probably hostile American children, thousands of miles from what they call home, because their Mum is in love with this stranger.
If you must abandon them for 5 weeks to go over there next month, don't be foolish and sign a marriage contract that you may live to regret. Get American father and children to go on holiday to the UK to meet you all first, before anything legal is signed.
There's a French saying, "It's urgent to wait", which is exactly what one of your children's grandmothers has said. Since you asked for advice on the Forum, please listen to it from unbiassed third parties....
Forgive me for butting in from the France forum, but the problem of different sets of jealous step-children living together in recomposed families is universal. It works in TV sit-coms, but not always in real life.
An already complicated business is now even more complicated.
So, your American boyfriend and your children have never met. His children and your children have never met. Even if you have met them, do you seriously think that step-father, step-mother and all children will live in harmony ever after? They might live with their mother, but you'll still be step-mother when he has custody. How are they reacting to the idea of their Dad taking on another family, foreign, at that? They'll naturally be afraid of losing his love, and, let's face it, of sharing his money, and will resent you, whatever they show outwardly.
Before fighting the three fathers before the Court to allow their children to leave the country, the future well-being of your children must be selflessly considered - thrown in at the deep-end with a man they don't know and probably hostile American children, thousands of miles from what they call home, because their Mum is in love with this stranger.
If you must abandon them for 5 weeks to go over there next month, don't be foolish and sign a marriage contract that you may live to regret. Get American father and children to go on holiday to the UK to meet you all first, before anything legal is signed.
There's a French saying, "It's urgent to wait", which is exactly what one of your children's grandmothers has said. Since you asked for advice on the Forum, please listen to it from unbiassed third parties....
Forgive me for butting in from the France forum, but the problem of different sets of jealous step-children living together in recomposed families is universal. It works in TV sit-coms, but not always in real life.
Dec 16th 2010, 2:00 pm
#75
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2003
Location:
Posts: 525
Re: Moving Children: LTR and court orders
Might it be that the fiance's children are grown? Could be they're adults and out of the home perhaps. (tho it doesn't sound that way) Am just trying to be devil's advocate here.
dmu - what's most stunning to me, is the poster saying that her children and the fiance have bonded - but yet, they've never met - ever!
How's that possible?
Again, I'm not bashing the poster at all - am just stumped on this one.
dmu - what's most stunning to me, is the poster saying that her children and the fiance have bonded - but yet, they've never met - ever!
How's that possible?
Again, I'm not bashing the poster at all - am just stumped on this one.
HI, I've been following this and agree with all the advice given so far, but have kept it to myself. However, I can't not react to the above statement, which is new to me but I must have missed a post, that HE HAS HIS OWN CHILDREN!
An already complicated business is now even more complicated.
So, your American boyfriend and your children have never met. His children and your children have never met. Even if you have met them, do you seriously think that step-father, step-mother and all children will live in harmony ever after? They might live with their mother, but you'll still be step-mother when he has custody. How are they reacting to the idea of their Dad taking on another family, foreign, at that? They'll naturally be afraid of losing his love, and, let's face it, of sharing his money, and will resent you, whatever they show outwardly.
Before fighting the three fathers before the Court to allow their children to leave the country, the future well-being of your children must be selflessly considered - thrown in at the deep-end with a man they don't know and probably hostile American children, thousands of miles from what they call home, because their Mum is in love with this stranger.
If you must abandon them for 5 weeks to go over there next month, don't be foolish and sign a marriage contract that you may live to regret. Get American father and children to go on holiday to the UK to meet you all first, before anything legal is signed.
There's a French saying, "It's urgent to wait", which is exactly what one of your children's grandmothers has said. Since you asked for advice on the Forum, please listen to it from unbiassed third parties....
Forgive me for butting in from the France forum, but the problem of different sets of jealous step-children living together in recomposed families is universal. It works in TV sit-coms, but not always in real life.
An already complicated business is now even more complicated.
So, your American boyfriend and your children have never met. His children and your children have never met. Even if you have met them, do you seriously think that step-father, step-mother and all children will live in harmony ever after? They might live with their mother, but you'll still be step-mother when he has custody. How are they reacting to the idea of their Dad taking on another family, foreign, at that? They'll naturally be afraid of losing his love, and, let's face it, of sharing his money, and will resent you, whatever they show outwardly.
Before fighting the three fathers before the Court to allow their children to leave the country, the future well-being of your children must be selflessly considered - thrown in at the deep-end with a man they don't know and probably hostile American children, thousands of miles from what they call home, because their Mum is in love with this stranger.
If you must abandon them for 5 weeks to go over there next month, don't be foolish and sign a marriage contract that you may live to regret. Get American father and children to go on holiday to the UK to meet you all first, before anything legal is signed.
There's a French saying, "It's urgent to wait", which is exactly what one of your children's grandmothers has said. Since you asked for advice on the Forum, please listen to it from unbiassed third parties....
Forgive me for butting in from the France forum, but the problem of different sets of jealous step-children living together in recomposed families is universal. It works in TV sit-coms, but not always in real life.
