Moving Children: LTR and court orders
Dec 10th 2010, 12:30 pm
#31
Mr & Mrs wannabe in oz!
Joined: Aug 2010
Location: Miles away from home..... Lost!!!!
Posts: 26
Re: Moving Children: LTR and court orders
I know and i think a awful lot of fathers do this to regain power regardless of whether they have contact previous to the ltr process, dont get me wrong im not saying majority of fathers dont comply because they dont love their children but in my case dad 3 has to be forced to see his child , NEVER contributes to her finacially including schools trips uniforms etc and when she has been ill he wouldnt even return phone calls or texts let alone be here for her. My point is its such a shame they have to be like this after the process has started .
I dont think this is very helpful to anyone, it will not be up to me wether i recieve LEGAL AID nor is it my choice to have to claim as i have stated plenty of times the situation im in now not planned nor wanted . To say they will have no contact is rediculous as they will have more when i move then they do now taking into cnsideration staying through summer and other holidays where possible and they see them 4 days a month now and have no contact at all the rest of month . The fact anyone wants to take there children away from fathers is not ideal, i would love to of stayed with my child hood sweetheart and lived a long and happy life with him only but thats not reality (im sure there are those lucky few) . This is how it is and if i could make it ideal in a perfect world i would but it isnt and as meauxna states personel opinions arent excatly what this forum is about as such and as the saying goes " if you have nothing nice to say , dont say nothing" . Constructive critisium excluded .
thanks
Picnic
I am not happy that the taxpayers of the UK support the OP by paying for legal aid in what is a domestic matter: LTR.
And I'm not going to start on taking 3 children to the US where their fathers and other family members will have little or no contact with them.....
I am not happy that the taxpayers of the UK support the OP by paying for legal aid in what is a domestic matter: LTR.
And I'm not going to start on taking 3 children to the US where their fathers and other family members will have little or no contact with them.....
thanks
Wow u r certainly going thru it. Huge battle but you can only fight for it the best u can and u r doing all the right things being Prepared and getting organised. Yes I agree solicitors aren't always helpful and make bad judgements.... It's just a job to them at times they act that way and I think god it's my life. I was bought up in Australia and my ex is my eldests father I left him 5 years ago and am married with a further two children and yet I still have a whopping fight and only 50% chance of successful and I just want to go home, I only returned to uk because sick grandfather. It was ex intention to move to australi a with me also.
Goodluck on your long journey! X
Stress isn't the word. An
Dec 11th 2010, 4:27 pm
#32
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Location: east midlands uk
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Re: Moving Children: LTR and court orders
Hi
Wow u r certainly going thru it. Huge battle but you can only fight for it the best u can and u r doing all the right things being Prepared and getting organised. Yes I agree solicitors aren't always helpful and make bad judgements.... It's just a job to them at times they act that way and I think god it's my life. I was bought up in Australia and my ex is my eldests father I left him 5 years ago and am married with a further two children and yet I still have a whopping fight and only 50% chance of successful and I just want to go home, I only returned to uk because sick grandfather. It was ex intention to move to australi a with me also.
Goodluck on your long journey! X
Stress isn't the word. An
Wow u r certainly going thru it. Huge battle but you can only fight for it the best u can and u r doing all the right things being Prepared and getting organised. Yes I agree solicitors aren't always helpful and make bad judgements.... It's just a job to them at times they act that way and I think god it's my life. I was bought up in Australia and my ex is my eldests father I left him 5 years ago and am married with a further two children and yet I still have a whopping fight and only 50% chance of successful and I just want to go home, I only returned to uk because sick grandfather. It was ex intention to move to australi a with me also.
Goodluck on your long journey! X
Stress isn't the word. An
HI!! and a huge Thankyou , means alot someone can take me for face value and realise i am in this to do whats best and im not a spiteful selfish mother :/
i wish you luck getting home , im moving to a whole new country but i know how you must feel and i am here if you want to talk
xx
Dec 11th 2010, 4:32 pm
#33
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Location: east midlands uk
Posts: 47
Re: Where do i start im so confused :(
Hope you get the fathers permission to do so. If not and they make an allegation under Sect 1 Child Abduction Act to police you run the grave risked of being stopped on your way out, or arrested on your way back.
There is a statutory defense to Child Abduction in that you were only away for 4 weeks (28 days) for a holiday. Tread very carefully. Any such action would look bad in a subsequent hearing for LTR. All I can say is if I was the officer dealing with this as you were leaving, and that used to be part of my job, knowing what I know from this thread I wouldn't let the children leave the UK.
There is a statutory defense to Child Abduction in that you were only away for 4 weeks (28 days) for a holiday. Tread very carefully. Any such action would look bad in a subsequent hearing for LTR. All I can say is if I was the officer dealing with this as you were leaving, and that used to be part of my job, knowing what I know from this thread I wouldn't let the children leave the UK.
Dec 11th 2010, 4:57 pm
#34
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukie, Oregon
Posts: 9,966
Re: Where do i start im so confused :(
You quite clearly said "The children will be coming out in the months following my return so when this does go to court they would of already been (mentioned also to solicitor)
The children will require parental consent of all concerned for such visits.
Dec 11th 2010, 5:13 pm
#35
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Joined: Sep 2007
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio.
Posts: 964
Re: Moving Children: LTR and court orders
I've been through LTR as well. Had a hell of a battle. Only one ex to deal with, but he accused me of all sorts of nasty things, which was great.
But I have to tell you, its NOT down to the judges opinion. Cafcass play a HUGE part in this, and all of you, including the children will be interviewed by them.
If you are still thinking of going over to the US for 5 weeks ((??)) without the kids, then please don't.... it will just look really bad.... especially if you are getting married while you are there.... think about how everything can be twisted (and it will be) to make you look bad - 'mom went away for 5 weeks without the kids and got MARRIED??' 'She didn't want the kids there to share her special day?'.... we all know thats not the case, but that is how it will be presented.
Hopefully you're realized that a big help in you winning on this case will be to divide your ex's..... convince (I don't know how many there are) one of them to let you go, and it will make your argument stronger against the other one.....
But I have to tell you, its NOT down to the judges opinion. Cafcass play a HUGE part in this, and all of you, including the children will be interviewed by them.
If you are still thinking of going over to the US for 5 weeks ((??)) without the kids, then please don't.... it will just look really bad.... especially if you are getting married while you are there.... think about how everything can be twisted (and it will be) to make you look bad - 'mom went away for 5 weeks without the kids and got MARRIED??' 'She didn't want the kids there to share her special day?'.... we all know thats not the case, but that is how it will be presented.
Hopefully you're realized that a big help in you winning on this case will be to divide your ex's..... convince (I don't know how many there are) one of them to let you go, and it will make your argument stronger against the other one.....
Dec 11th 2010, 9:57 pm
#36
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Re: Where do i start im so confused :(
Thanks I know what the laws says and who it applies to.
You quite clearly said "The children will be coming out in the months following my return so when this does go to court they would of already been (mentioned also to solicitor)
The children will require parental consent of all concerned for such visits.
You quite clearly said "The children will be coming out in the months following my return so when this does go to court they would of already been (mentioned also to solicitor)
The children will require parental consent of all concerned for such visits.
Dec 11th 2010, 10:00 pm
#37
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Re: Moving Children: LTR and court orders
I've been through LTR as well. Had a hell of a battle. Only one ex to deal with, but he accused me of all sorts of nasty things, which was great.
But I have to tell you, its NOT down to the judges opinion. Cafcass play a HUGE part in this, and all of you, including the children will be interviewed by them.
If you are still thinking of going over to the US for 5 weeks ((??)) without the kids, then please don't.... it will just look really bad.... especially if you are getting married while you are there.... think about how everything can be twisted (and it will be) to make you look bad - 'mom went away for 5 weeks without the kids and got MARRIED??' 'She didn't want the kids there to share her special day?'.... we all know thats not the case, but that is how it will be presented.
Hopefully you're realized that a big help in you winning on this case will be to divide your ex's..... convince (I don't know how many there are) one of them to let you go, and it will make your argument stronger against the other one.....
But I have to tell you, its NOT down to the judges opinion. Cafcass play a HUGE part in this, and all of you, including the children will be interviewed by them.
If you are still thinking of going over to the US for 5 weeks ((??)) without the kids, then please don't.... it will just look really bad.... especially if you are getting married while you are there.... think about how everything can be twisted (and it will be) to make you look bad - 'mom went away for 5 weeks without the kids and got MARRIED??' 'She didn't want the kids there to share her special day?'.... we all know thats not the case, but that is how it will be presented.
Hopefully you're realized that a big help in you winning on this case will be to divide your ex's..... convince (I don't know how many there are) one of them to let you go, and it will make your argument stronger against the other one.....
Dec 11th 2010, 11:14 pm
#38
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Joined: Mar 2008
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Posts: 4,913
Re: Where do i start im so confused :(
The starting point is that you need parental consent to take a child out of the country for a trip of any length.
If you don't have that consent then the other parent could accuse you of child abduction.
If they make that accusation before you leave it is likely that you will be stopped at the airport and prevented from taking the child with you.
If they make that accusation after you have already left, then you have a defense against it if you do, in fact, return with the child after a temporary visit of less than 28 day.
Dec 12th 2010, 12:06 am
#39
Account Closed
Joined: Aug 2002
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 38,865
Re: Where do i start im so confused :(
It's probably not a good idea to quote the rules to a former law enforcement officer who's dealt with this sort of thing for more years than you an imagine!
From where I sit, you have no need to leave the children for 5 weeks while you satisfy your own needs.
I wonder how that'll go over in court... telling the judge that you need to move to the US because the UK is crap by comparison.
I've got to tell you, that's a really weak argument! It might be in your best interest to relocate, and it might be good for the children to be with you - but that's a lot different from it being in the children's best interest.
Don't get me wrong - I hope your plan to get LTR for the children works out for you... but what strikes me as odd (and likely strikes most of the members here the same way) is the manner in which you're planning to do this. It seems odd to abandon the children for 5 weeks while you hop over the pond to get schtupped!
Ian
... this isnt a 5 star selfish holiday
... there are things i need to do and gain from out there to put towards this case
... im doing it to help back my statement that for the childrens best interest they be allowed to relocate.
Don't get me wrong - I hope your plan to get LTR for the children works out for you... but what strikes me as odd (and likely strikes most of the members here the same way) is the manner in which you're planning to do this. It seems odd to abandon the children for 5 weeks while you hop over the pond to get schtupped!
Ian
Last edited by ian-mstm; Dec 12th 2010 at 12:16 am.
Dec 12th 2010, 4:23 am
#40
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Re: Moving Children: LTR and court orders
What does the US fiance say about all this?
If its true love, the 180 acres and house can be sold and he moves to the UK. Or he simply locks the door, moves to the UK for some years, until the children reach majority or he negotiates a deal with all the fathers, like adoption, taking over child support payments, whatever. That is what marriage is all about - making it work ANYWHERE. Is he ready to do that for his new wife and family?
AND he should be financing the second opinions of another solicitor or together paying for a top-notch lawyer that can well deal with this issue ASAP, not in January - AFTER you are married!
If these kids are soon to be 'his' too, then he should be over in the UK talking to the solicitor with you and be there during any judge hearings. His presence in the entire matter would seem like a positive to anyone making any decisions, including all three men from which the children come with you. You need their consent, true.
NOT you taking off to the USA for a private wedding and leaving them for 5 weeks. I didn't have kids and we only were in the USA for a weekend to get married. Just please understand that 5 weeks away while you have physical custody may not look good to a judge.
And then remember, it then also sits with USCIS to even grant you the visa for you and your children to live in the USA.... You need a really good lawyer for all these minefields. Just an opinion.
If its true love, the 180 acres and house can be sold and he moves to the UK. Or he simply locks the door, moves to the UK for some years, until the children reach majority or he negotiates a deal with all the fathers, like adoption, taking over child support payments, whatever. That is what marriage is all about - making it work ANYWHERE. Is he ready to do that for his new wife and family?
AND he should be financing the second opinions of another solicitor or together paying for a top-notch lawyer that can well deal with this issue ASAP, not in January - AFTER you are married!
If these kids are soon to be 'his' too, then he should be over in the UK talking to the solicitor with you and be there during any judge hearings. His presence in the entire matter would seem like a positive to anyone making any decisions, including all three men from which the children come with you. You need their consent, true.
NOT you taking off to the USA for a private wedding and leaving them for 5 weeks. I didn't have kids and we only were in the USA for a weekend to get married. Just please understand that 5 weeks away while you have physical custody may not look good to a judge.
And then remember, it then also sits with USCIS to even grant you the visa for you and your children to live in the USA.... You need a really good lawyer for all these minefields. Just an opinion.
Dec 12th 2010, 6:05 am
#41
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukie, Oregon
Posts: 9,966
Re: Where do i start im so confused :(
The 28 days is a statutory defense after you have been stopped and arrested for the offense. Bottom line is if the Crown Prosecution Service wanted to play hard ball they could authorize you being charged and let a Court decide if the defense applied.
I was just trying to advise you, please fell free to ignore it if you wish. It is your LTR application which might suffer not mine.
Dec 12th 2010, 10:02 am
#42
Member
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 123
Re: Moving Children: LTR and court orders
When my parents divorced and there were questions about visiting my Mom etc., my Dad asked me how often I want to see Mom. He wanted to make sure I would be able to see Mom whenever I wanted to. When he remarried, he asked me...
I have read all the posts here and I have not got the answer (or missed by mistake?!) which is the most important thing to me in this situation.
What would the kids like to do? Have they already accepted Dad #4 and the fact that they will not be able to see their fathers whenever they want to? We are talking about dads, officers, moving....what about the kids? And I understand rach1015, you want to provide a better life and a family with a real dad for your kids which is well done and well respected. However, what if they perceive "good life and family" in a different way than we do, adults. I have no kids and some time I still feel like a kid in my 20s...so what could I know, right?
So please, all, do not get me wrong...these are just my thoughts.
Anyway, I wish you and your kid happiness rach1015.
I have read all the posts here and I have not got the answer (or missed by mistake?!) which is the most important thing to me in this situation.
What would the kids like to do? Have they already accepted Dad #4 and the fact that they will not be able to see their fathers whenever they want to? We are talking about dads, officers, moving....what about the kids? And I understand rach1015, you want to provide a better life and a family with a real dad for your kids which is well done and well respected. However, what if they perceive "good life and family" in a different way than we do, adults. I have no kids and some time I still feel like a kid in my 20s...so what could I know, right?
So please, all, do not get me wrong...these are just my thoughts. Anyway, I wish you and your kid happiness rach1015.
Last edited by EU_Girl; Dec 12th 2010 at 10:27 am. Reason: clarity
Dec 12th 2010, 11:47 am
#43
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Re: Moving Children: LTR and court orders
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAn...port/DG_174106
this is where i found out i can take the children out the country for no longer then 28 days. i have residency orders. 28 days for them to leave the country isnt even an issue, im leaving the country !
Ian i appreciate your knowledge of this but im not going out there just to satisfy my own needs, i need to show that i have thought this through and i am making solid plans for my children when they get there ( if they get there) This would involve meeting with the principals of a couple of schools, geting more information about different kids clubs etc , i think your judgement of me is clouded. my own fault maybe .
I could quite easily go to the judge, tell him how much im in love and how im getting married / got married and expect that to be it? NO , i need to show this is planned out and i have solid reasons and backing for this to go ahead FOR THE CHILDREN . including evidence that they will have a better life, so although i may seem to go on about this alot , this isnt about how much i love my partnet or how much he loves me , this is about the ltr which i need to show will be best , travelling will help me gain more proof for my case .
this is where i found out i can take the children out the country for no longer then 28 days. i have residency orders. 28 days for them to leave the country isnt even an issue, im leaving the country !
Ian i appreciate your knowledge of this but im not going out there just to satisfy my own needs, i need to show that i have thought this through and i am making solid plans for my children when they get there ( if they get there) This would involve meeting with the principals of a couple of schools, geting more information about different kids clubs etc , i think your judgement of me is clouded. my own fault maybe .
I could quite easily go to the judge, tell him how much im in love and how im getting married / got married and expect that to be it? NO , i need to show this is planned out and i have solid reasons and backing for this to go ahead FOR THE CHILDREN . including evidence that they will have a better life, so although i may seem to go on about this alot , this isnt about how much i love my partnet or how much he loves me , this is about the ltr which i need to show will be best , travelling will help me gain more proof for my case .
Dec 12th 2010, 11:49 am
#44
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Joined: Nov 2010
Location: east midlands uk
Posts: 47
Re: Where do i start im so confused :(
I think that you misunderstood what lansbury said (and you really should pay attention to it because he really does know what he is talking about in these matters).
The starting point is that you need parental consent to take a child out of the country for a trip of any length.
If you don't have that consent then the other parent could accuse you of child abduction.
If they make that accusation before you leave it is likely that you will be stopped at the airport and prevented from taking the child with you.
If they make that accusation after you have already left, then you have a defense against it if you do, in fact, return with the child after a temporary visit of less than 28 day.
The starting point is that you need parental consent to take a child out of the country for a trip of any length.
If you don't have that consent then the other parent could accuse you of child abduction.
If they make that accusation before you leave it is likely that you will be stopped at the airport and prevented from taking the child with you.
If they make that accusation after you have already left, then you have a defense against it if you do, in fact, return with the child after a temporary visit of less than 28 day.
Im travelling for 5 weeks, never said i was taking children for that amount of time so i think this is going off track now..
When i do take the children with me it will be for a period of 2 weeks max as they all in full time education and thats the limit for holiday .
I have residency order which states i can travel with the children , out of country for no longer then 28 days WITHOUT permission .
Dec 12th 2010, 11:57 am
#45
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Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2010
Location: east midlands uk
Posts: 47
Re: Moving Children: LTR and court orders
When my parents divorced and there were questions about visiting my Mom etc., my Dad asked me how often I want to see Mom. He wanted to make sure I would be able to see Mom whenever I wanted to. When he remarried, he asked me...
I have read all the posts here and I have not got the answer (or missed by mistake?!) which is the most important thing to me in this situation.
What would the kids like to do? Have they already accepted Dad #4 and the fact that they will not be able to see their fathers whenever they want to? We are talking about dads, officers, moving....what about the kids? And I understand rach1015, you want to provide a better life and a family with a real dad for your kids which is well done and well respected. However, what if they perceive "good life and family" in a different way than we do, adults. I have no kids and some time I still feel like a kid in my 20s...so what could I know, right? So please, all, do not get me wrong...these are just my thoughts.
Anyway, I wish you and your kid happiness rach1015.
I have read all the posts here and I have not got the answer (or missed by mistake?!) which is the most important thing to me in this situation.
What would the kids like to do? Have they already accepted Dad #4 and the fact that they will not be able to see their fathers whenever they want to? We are talking about dads, officers, moving....what about the kids? And I understand rach1015, you want to provide a better life and a family with a real dad for your kids which is well done and well respected. However, what if they perceive "good life and family" in a different way than we do, adults. I have no kids and some time I still feel like a kid in my 20s...so what could I know, right?
So please, all, do not get me wrong...these are just my thoughts. Anyway, I wish you and your kid happiness rach1015.
The children are the most important factor in this and if for one second they didnt want to go then i wouldnt be doing this.They are 13, 9 and 5 and each have their own opinion . They understand that mummy wants best for them and they understand the opportunities that are available once relocated. They have to see me upset sometimes(which i try to hide) when im missing OH so both points together they know its for best also . My oldest is extremely angry with her dad as she has stated several time she wants to go . My middle daughter has concerns about schools out there and how she will be treated as "different" which i have put her mind to rest and explained about different ehtnic groups and how there will be children from all backgrounds there. Im going to get her to write a letter to the principal so she can ask all the questions she wants and take it with me. My youngest just wants to go and be with her step siblings out there as they are very close but at her age she doesnt really have many concerns. I have explained they will be seeing there familes in uk as often as up to 14 weeks a year and they havent mentioned this again so im assured they are reassured .