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Moving Back to UK From Germany

Moving Back to UK From Germany

Old Sep 29th 2020, 3:19 pm
  #16  
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Default Re: Moving Back to UK From Germany

Originally Posted by dougal03 View Post
Must disagree with you,AngloFox.I too have been self-employed most of my adult life in 3 different countries,England(various locations),Scotland & Spain.All have very different regulations & payment charges for those that are in that category.We had 2 very good businesses operating at the same time in Sussex when we decided to relocate to another country which valued our efforts more.No matter how hard we worked we found that so much was just handed over to the"workshy" who preferred to take generous welfare benefits.Britain cannot afford to lose people like ourselves who try to run small businesses.It was not easy,didn't expect it to be as Spain was not even in the EU at that time.But succeed we did.Many years later I retired & our business is still operating under a new owner some 20 years later.I am now planning to return to Scotland as I have no family member who wishes to inherit a foreign property & this way would make things less complicated,especially after Brexit.Fortunately I have been able to secure a reservation for my property so hopefully will be able to be on my way soon.Brexit is one of the worse things,my opinion,to happen.Although I will leave my good life on the Continent,I must put that behind me & just learn to adapt yet again.But I feel so sorry for our younger generations who will find it very difficult in the years ahead to get easy access to the opportunities I had.Even our Commonwealth countries are now not so welcoming as in the past.

Well opportunities for people depend on economic growth and having a dynamic pro-enterprise economy.

I cannot call the economy of France for example dynamic. Nor Germany's either for that matter. Enterprise is discouraged, self-employed tend to be vilified. The ideal in Germany and France is to become a civil servant. In surveys in Germany this is what most graduates say they want to do after graduating. Not starting a business. Or else a job for life at a big company - like one of Germany's auto monoliths which spews out dirty diesel or petrol autos.

Germany does well because it lives off the fat of the post-war reconstruction. Plus being at the centre of the Eurozone which gives it a massive and unfair trade surplus over other countries in the zone. That is not so much about enterprise, rather about fixing the arrangements to suit your own country to the detriment of the others.

UK has long had far better cards when it comes to enterprise and economic growth than the European continent. There is the potential for this to continue and to improve further outside the EU.

As for living and working in other countries, any restrictions that exist are created by human beings. Which means they are not inviolable.

I know that Germany for example has this year introduced a law to permit non-EU citizens (which now includes UK) to come to Germany to live and work. This is because Germany's economy has a major labour shortage, predicted to last for a good decade or more. They cannot recruit enough skilled labour from the rest of the EU, so they are now having to source from further afield.

UK too requires labour from abroad. If not from EU, then from elsewhere in the world. People always move around and migrate and emigrate and always will. The needs of business dictate.

Btw the EU esp people like Barnier and Michel want to scare and intimidate young people in UK as part of their anti-brexit strategy. Not a bit of it. See examples above!

Last edited by AngloFox; Sep 29th 2020 at 3:29 pm.
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Old Sep 30th 2020, 9:20 am
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Default Re: Moving Back to UK From Germany

I would not be very optimistic that the UK will be an attractive lower-tax location in the near future, nor that there will be any tax advantage for being self-employed. Already the latter is being squeezed to death by the IR35 regulations, and the costs of the COVID on the economy will have to be paid back one way or another.

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Old Sep 30th 2020, 12:52 pm
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Default Re: Moving Back to UK From Germany

Again I disagree AngloFox I would hardly call Spain a"pro-enterprise" economy!Especially as we came before that country entered the EU.Remember this is southern european so very different from northern european countries.Youngsters in UK do not need to be put off my EU spokesmen,it's enough viewing their future after Brexit.Yes,people always have relocated to other countries as we did & it is hard.Not so bad if you are freelance & can come & go but ,as with us,we had burnt our bridges & had to survive.Part of my work included sending pets all over the world for people often returning to their homelands.I live in a very multi-cultural region & have dealt with many nationalities.There were often those,like yourself,that became disillusioned after a while.It's human nature perhaps to have a negative attitude for the country you migrated to.If you are seeking lower tax by returning to UK I rather think you may be surprised particularly if you want to remain self-employed.
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Old Sep 30th 2020, 2:31 pm
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Default Re: Moving Back to UK From Germany

Originally Posted by dougal03 View Post
Again I disagree AngloFox I would hardly call Spain a"pro-enterprise" economy!Especially as we came before that country entered the EU.Remember this is southern european so very different from northern european countries.Youngsters in UK do not need to be put off my EU spokesmen,it's enough viewing their future after Brexit.Yes,people always have relocated to other countries as we did & it is hard.Not so bad if you are freelance & can come & go but ,as with us,we had burnt our bridges & had to survive.Part of my work included sending pets all over the world for people often returning to their homelands.I live in a very multi-cultural region & have dealt with many nationalities.There were often those,like yourself,that became disillusioned after a while.It's human nature perhaps to have a negative attitude for the country you migrated to.If you are seeking lower tax by returning to UK I rather think you may be surprised particularly if you want to remain self-employed.
Indeed, I've heard about Spain and the taxes freelancers have to pay there, and all the Gestor stuff. Italy is also bad.

On the whole I like Germany, but I am realizing there are limits to it. I've known this for some time, but I think its increasingly time to do something about it.

I left Germany back in 2008 for the first time after nearly 20 years in the country. Spent time in other parts of the world. Then came back about 6 years or so later. When I left in 2008 my health insurance was about 500 Euros a month. It is now getting on for 1000. That is 100% increase in 12 years.

Is it going to get cheaper? Is it going to stay the same? No. It is going to get dearer and dearer. The German health insurance system is bonkers. Smart people leave!

Btw, I'm talking about the basic public tariff for self-employed set by the government which health insurance funds have to offer you by law - not some luxury private rate with private room, top doctors etc and which the insurance brokers try to flog you. That would be even more.

Council tax in UK tends to be around 100-200 or so for a single person per month. Not 1000 a month. I know which I prefer.







Last edited by AngloFox; Sep 30th 2020 at 3:02 pm.
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Old Sep 30th 2020, 2:45 pm
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Default Re: Moving Back to UK From Germany

Originally Posted by Jingsamichty View Post
I would not be very optimistic that the UK will be an attractive lower-tax location in the near future, nor that there will be any tax advantage for being self-employed. Already the latter is being squeezed to death by the IR35 regulations, and the costs of the COVID on the economy will have to be paid back one way or another.
As I understand the IR35 came about (they have been talking about this for a good 20 years if I recall correct) because of people in UK paying themselves mainly in dividends from their instant set-up limited companies.

You can work as a "freelancer" here in Germany - but you still have to watch out for the regulations. In addition to the German version of IR35, we have a tax distinction between a "commercial" business and a "freelancer". Former have to pay local authority commercial tax and compulsory (!) chamber of commerce membership etc. Latter do not.

But apart from that, as far as inclination to levy lower taxes, I would trust the UK far more than Germany. And in addition to that, there is the health insurance burden in Germany which you just don't have in the UK. That is bad in Germany and it's going to get worse and worse.








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Old Sep 30th 2020, 6:34 pm
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Default Re: Moving Back to UK From Germany

The trouble with Birmingham is that if you want to live in a nice residential area you pay south of England prices. Average house prices in Harbone for example are around £350k. Unless you have family there or a job offer I would avoid it.
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