Moving Back to UK from Canada- Any Recent Experiences?
Jun 6th 2021, 3:46 pm
#1
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Joined: Jun 2021
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Moving Back to UK from Canada- Any Recent Experiences?
Hello all,
Thank you for this great forum. I left the UK 9 years ago after completing my PhD and have been living and working in Toronto, Canada ever since. Truth is, since leaving the UK I've always been thinking of moving back and my heart definitely lies there. Over the past 10 years, it's been a challenge to fully adapt to life in Toronto:
1. The severely cold weather has always been a problem and I still can't get used to it. While it rains in the UK and it's quite grey, at least it's not as cold and windy.
2. While I've progressed in my career, it's taken a very long time. I work for the government and so the job security and work-life balance is good, but because pay is determined by seniority and there are many people who've worked there longer than me, I end up receiving less despite having better qualifications and skills. It's not a meritocracy, and I feel like I reached a plateau progression-wise.
3. I find employment laws in Canada inferior to the UK. There's virtually no job security as people could be terminated at will (i.e., even without cause) just like in the US. In the UK that's only the case during the first 2 years of employment.
4. In my career field (economics), there's way less jobs in Canada than the UK.
5. I moved to Toronto when I was in my mid-to-late 20s and now I'm in my mid-30s, male and single. I find the dating scene in Toronto atrocious. Despite that I came close to getting married 2.5 years ago but my ex was Polish and she just happened to be born in Toronto and she didn't like the place much (just like me). I just think at this stage of my life I miss being back in England and being still relatively youngish I still have a chance to meet an English rose and settle back there.
6. Cost of living is very high in downtown Toronto, and it's getting hard to save anything. In fact, despite making over $100K I don't get to save much due to mortgage, condo fees, property taxes, income taxes, and cost of food and other necessities.
7. I just find Torontonians very cold, impersonable, rude and passive-aggressive. There's a lack of empathy here. Whereas I come from a relatively small part of England where people are much friendlier and don't get me started on our wonderful sense of humour!!
Three weeks ago, I got approached by the UK government to work as a Senior Manager. It's a much higher salary than here but once I factor rent and transportation costs (season ticket, London Underground costs, etc.) I'm left with roughly the same disposable income I've got here. I accepted the offer verbally and hoping to start sometime in July or August.
With that said, I'm just curious if other people have had similar impressions of Toronto, Ontario or Canada in general and have or are thinking of making the move back to the UK sometime soon. If you did, what has been your experience, and would you recommend it, or am I letting emotions get to me and therefore I should reconsider? Cheers!
Thank you for this great forum. I left the UK 9 years ago after completing my PhD and have been living and working in Toronto, Canada ever since. Truth is, since leaving the UK I've always been thinking of moving back and my heart definitely lies there. Over the past 10 years, it's been a challenge to fully adapt to life in Toronto:
1. The severely cold weather has always been a problem and I still can't get used to it. While it rains in the UK and it's quite grey, at least it's not as cold and windy.
2. While I've progressed in my career, it's taken a very long time. I work for the government and so the job security and work-life balance is good, but because pay is determined by seniority and there are many people who've worked there longer than me, I end up receiving less despite having better qualifications and skills. It's not a meritocracy, and I feel like I reached a plateau progression-wise.
3. I find employment laws in Canada inferior to the UK. There's virtually no job security as people could be terminated at will (i.e., even without cause) just like in the US. In the UK that's only the case during the first 2 years of employment.
4. In my career field (economics), there's way less jobs in Canada than the UK.
5. I moved to Toronto when I was in my mid-to-late 20s and now I'm in my mid-30s, male and single. I find the dating scene in Toronto atrocious. Despite that I came close to getting married 2.5 years ago but my ex was Polish and she just happened to be born in Toronto and she didn't like the place much (just like me). I just think at this stage of my life I miss being back in England and being still relatively youngish I still have a chance to meet an English rose and settle back there.
6. Cost of living is very high in downtown Toronto, and it's getting hard to save anything. In fact, despite making over $100K I don't get to save much due to mortgage, condo fees, property taxes, income taxes, and cost of food and other necessities.
7. I just find Torontonians very cold, impersonable, rude and passive-aggressive. There's a lack of empathy here. Whereas I come from a relatively small part of England where people are much friendlier and don't get me started on our wonderful sense of humour!!
Three weeks ago, I got approached by the UK government to work as a Senior Manager. It's a much higher salary than here but once I factor rent and transportation costs (season ticket, London Underground costs, etc.) I'm left with roughly the same disposable income I've got here. I accepted the offer verbally and hoping to start sometime in July or August.
With that said, I'm just curious if other people have had similar impressions of Toronto, Ontario or Canada in general and have or are thinking of making the move back to the UK sometime soon. If you did, what has been your experience, and would you recommend it, or am I letting emotions get to me and therefore I should reconsider? Cheers!
Jul 1st 2021, 9:29 pm
#2
Forum Regular
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 38
Re: Moving Back to UK from Canada- Any Recent Experiences?
I've been in Toronto slightly longer than you and you seem to have experienced almost the same things that I dislike about "T'ranna".
To reinforce your points:
1. I hate the 5 months of darkness in Toronto. Usually it would have been made bearable with a week in the sun in Cuba but obviously not during Covid. I hate having to deal with mucky winter boots and packed TTC subways/streetcars.
2. That's just Canadian government jobs for you. Slow and out of date processes. I've had to abandon my original career (financial media) and switch to something else due to lack of recognition/ethnic name. I'm from the South and sound like a character from Downtown Abbey but employers would never find out as Karen from HR screens out "foreign-sounding" names.
3. Found myself unemployed 5 times in 13 years in Canada. Only ever been unemployed in the UK just once in 25 years. Ironically, first time I was unempployed in Canada was just 6 months after getting Canadian citizenship. Truly living the dream.
4. Toronto is a non-league football team of financial markets. As an Economist you've got your pick of jobs in New York or London. I used to work in financial media and have struggled to get hired or even get my work background or education recognized in Canada (of my 13 years in Toronto, half that time was wasted unemployed or working shitty retail).
5. Canadian women tend to be better-looking (especially Montreal - it's practically a Vogue fashion shoot) and male Brits often find themselves "punching above their weight" in terms of female partner just because our accent drives some North American women wild. But Toronto is a particularly tough place to date as local women here think they're much better than they actually are (when I used to go out in this city's terrible nightlife, had the misfortune of meeting so many make-up artists and clerical workers who thought the sun shone out of their front bottoms). You're probably better off with a British woman who at least will be on the same page as you, culturally.
6. Yep it's very, very expensive in Toronto. New York is probably cheaper (and better as it's a truly world-class city and top-tier financial market plus dating scene is 1000% better than Toronto). Toronto has deteriorated as a place to live and Covid has shown it at its worst (housing and wealth inequality, Covid response, that idiot Doug Ford in Queen's Park).
7. There was an advert for Canadian beer a few years back that had the slogan: "Colder than most people from Toronto". Torontonians in my experience are flaky and cliquey. They don't want to know you unless there's something in it for them (usually career or money). Just because you work with someone, doesn't make them your friend over here. There's no after-work social culture like there is in the UK. I've had trouble making the same kind of friendships I enjoyed in the UK over here in Toronto (ie. people who would let you stay on their couch if you lost your job/house). Canadians that I have met in my early days have just dissolved from my life.
Not sure if you have Canadian citizenship or not (or if you even want it) but if you have a decent job lined up in the UK I'd advise you snap it up.
To reinforce your points:
1. I hate the 5 months of darkness in Toronto. Usually it would have been made bearable with a week in the sun in Cuba but obviously not during Covid. I hate having to deal with mucky winter boots and packed TTC subways/streetcars.
2. That's just Canadian government jobs for you. Slow and out of date processes. I've had to abandon my original career (financial media) and switch to something else due to lack of recognition/ethnic name. I'm from the South and sound like a character from Downtown Abbey but employers would never find out as Karen from HR screens out "foreign-sounding" names.
3. Found myself unemployed 5 times in 13 years in Canada. Only ever been unemployed in the UK just once in 25 years. Ironically, first time I was unempployed in Canada was just 6 months after getting Canadian citizenship. Truly living the dream.
4. Toronto is a non-league football team of financial markets. As an Economist you've got your pick of jobs in New York or London. I used to work in financial media and have struggled to get hired or even get my work background or education recognized in Canada (of my 13 years in Toronto, half that time was wasted unemployed or working shitty retail).
5. Canadian women tend to be better-looking (especially Montreal - it's practically a Vogue fashion shoot) and male Brits often find themselves "punching above their weight" in terms of female partner just because our accent drives some North American women wild. But Toronto is a particularly tough place to date as local women here think they're much better than they actually are (when I used to go out in this city's terrible nightlife, had the misfortune of meeting so many make-up artists and clerical workers who thought the sun shone out of their front bottoms). You're probably better off with a British woman who at least will be on the same page as you, culturally.
6. Yep it's very, very expensive in Toronto. New York is probably cheaper (and better as it's a truly world-class city and top-tier financial market plus dating scene is 1000% better than Toronto). Toronto has deteriorated as a place to live and Covid has shown it at its worst (housing and wealth inequality, Covid response, that idiot Doug Ford in Queen's Park).
7. There was an advert for Canadian beer a few years back that had the slogan: "Colder than most people from Toronto". Torontonians in my experience are flaky and cliquey. They don't want to know you unless there's something in it for them (usually career or money). Just because you work with someone, doesn't make them your friend over here. There's no after-work social culture like there is in the UK. I've had trouble making the same kind of friendships I enjoyed in the UK over here in Toronto (ie. people who would let you stay on their couch if you lost your job/house). Canadians that I have met in my early days have just dissolved from my life.
Not sure if you have Canadian citizenship or not (or if you even want it) but if you have a decent job lined up in the UK I'd advise you snap it up.
Jul 2nd 2021, 3:26 am
#4
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Joined: Jun 2021
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Re: Moving Back to UK from Canada- Any Recent Experiences?
I've been in Toronto slightly longer than you and you seem to have experienced almost the same things that I dislike about "T'ranna".
To reinforce your points:
1. I hate the 5 months of darkness in Toronto. Usually it would have been made bearable with a week in the sun in Cuba but obviously not during Covid. I hate having to deal with mucky winter boots and packed TTC subways/streetcars.
2. That's just Canadian government jobs for you. Slow and out of date processes. I've had to abandon my original career (financial media) and switch to something else due to lack of recognition/ethnic name. I'm from the South and sound like a character from Downtown Abbey but employers would never find ou.
3. Found myself unemployed 5 times in 13 years in Canada. Only ever been unemployed in the UK just once in 25 years. Ironically, first time I was unempployed in Canada was just 6 months after getting Canadian citizenship. Truly living the dream.
4. Toronto is a non-league football team of financial markets. As an Economist you've got your pick of jobs in New York or London. I used to work in financial media and have struggled to get hired or even get my work background or education recognized in Canada (of my 13 years in Toronto, half that time was wasted unemployed or working shitty retail).
5. Canadian women tend to be better-looking (especially Montreal - it's practically a Vogue fashion shoot) and male Brits often find themselves "punching above their weight" in terms of female partner just because our accent drives some North American women wild. But Toronto is a particularly tough place to date as local women here think they're much better than they actually are (when I used to go out in this city's terrible nightlife, had the misfortune of meeting so many make-up artists and clerical workers who thought the sun shone out of their front bottoms). You're probably better off with a British woman who at least will be on the same page as you, culturally.
6. Yep it's very, very expensive in Toronto. New York is probably cheaper (and better as it's a truly world-class city and top-tier financial market plus dating scene is 1000% better than Toronto). Toronto has deteriorated as a place to live and Covid has shown it at its worst (housing and wealth inequality, Covid response, that idiot Doug Ford in Queen's Park).
7. There was an advert for Canadian beer a few years back that had the slogan: "Colder than most people from Toronto". Torontonians in my experience are flaky and cliquey. They don't want to know you unless there's something in it for them (usually career or money). Just because you work with someone, doesn't make them your friend over here. There's no after-work social culture like there is in the UK. I've had trouble making the same kind of friendships I enjoyed in the UK over here in Toronto (ie. people who would let you stay on their couch if you lost your job/house). Canadians that I have met in my early days have just dissolved from my life.
Not sure if you have Canadian citizenship or not (or if you even want it) but if you have a decent job lined up in the UK I'd advise you snap it up.
To reinforce your points:
1. I hate the 5 months of darkness in Toronto. Usually it would have been made bearable with a week in the sun in Cuba but obviously not during Covid. I hate having to deal with mucky winter boots and packed TTC subways/streetcars.
2. That's just Canadian government jobs for you. Slow and out of date processes. I've had to abandon my original career (financial media) and switch to something else due to lack of recognition/ethnic name. I'm from the South and sound like a character from Downtown Abbey but employers would never find ou.
3. Found myself unemployed 5 times in 13 years in Canada. Only ever been unemployed in the UK just once in 25 years. Ironically, first time I was unempployed in Canada was just 6 months after getting Canadian citizenship. Truly living the dream.
4. Toronto is a non-league football team of financial markets. As an Economist you've got your pick of jobs in New York or London. I used to work in financial media and have struggled to get hired or even get my work background or education recognized in Canada (of my 13 years in Toronto, half that time was wasted unemployed or working shitty retail).
5. Canadian women tend to be better-looking (especially Montreal - it's practically a Vogue fashion shoot) and male Brits often find themselves "punching above their weight" in terms of female partner just because our accent drives some North American women wild. But Toronto is a particularly tough place to date as local women here think they're much better than they actually are (when I used to go out in this city's terrible nightlife, had the misfortune of meeting so many make-up artists and clerical workers who thought the sun shone out of their front bottoms). You're probably better off with a British woman who at least will be on the same page as you, culturally.
6. Yep it's very, very expensive in Toronto. New York is probably cheaper (and better as it's a truly world-class city and top-tier financial market plus dating scene is 1000% better than Toronto). Toronto has deteriorated as a place to live and Covid has shown it at its worst (housing and wealth inequality, Covid response, that idiot Doug Ford in Queen's Park).
7. There was an advert for Canadian beer a few years back that had the slogan: "Colder than most people from Toronto". Torontonians in my experience are flaky and cliquey. They don't want to know you unless there's something in it for them (usually career or money). Just because you work with someone, doesn't make them your friend over here. There's no after-work social culture like there is in the UK. I've had trouble making the same kind of friendships I enjoyed in the UK over here in Toronto (ie. people who would let you stay on their couch if you lost your job/house). Canadians that I have met in my early days have just dissolved from my life.
Not sure if you have Canadian citizenship or not (or if you even want it) but if you have a decent job lined up in the UK I'd advise you snap it up.
I have Canadian citizenship so I can always come back to Canada. Truth be told, I find the country beautiful (in terms of nature especially; I was driving today outside of Toronto (near Barrie) and the scenery is gorgeous). That said, aside from these drives, the convenience of having things delivered to my condo when I'm away, and having a great dentist, I don't think there's much that I'd truly miss.
The dating scene is awful and it shocked me when I first moved here. I stopped dating 2.5 years ago when I broke up with my ex. I also find people in Toronto very fake and sinister- there's a lot of backstabbing especially where I work. To tell you the truth, if it weren't for my desire for better work-life balance and job security I'd be in London or New York working for a big bank or MNC.
Anyways it looks likely that I'll be making the move while I'm still relatively young and feel young. I can never see myself working in the private sector in Canada given the perverse employment laws. I hope Brexit Britain doesn't go down the road of copying Canada and the US on this issue though.
That's crazy that you've been unemployed 5 times in 13 years!! Are you thinking of moving back to the UK in the future?
Jul 2nd 2021, 3:27 am
#5
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Re: Moving Back to UK from Canada- Any Recent Experiences?
Jul 2nd 2021, 8:32 am
#6
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Posts: 4,131
Re: Moving Back to UK from Canada- Any Recent Experiences?
We returned from the USA to the UK a few years after we retired. We had lived in Texas and Louisiana for 29 years.
Jul 2nd 2021, 10:23 am
#7
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Joined: May 2021
Posts: 44
Re: Moving Back to UK from Canada- Any Recent Experiences?
I came to Canada 1989 going back to UK 2022.My first impressions of Canada were tainted not all Canadians are like the people I first worked with here.Worked for 28 years in same job(meatcutter) people wouldent talk to me would go of sick as soon as a big sale came up leaving me with all the work.At first I was in denial thinking it will pass but never did.My last 6 months working was verging on a breakdown.So for me cant wait to get back to Scotland was sickened by the rudeness I encountered .I was so lighthearted when I first got here that dissapeared I can tell you.Sorry for the ramble I will leave and never look back..........
Jul 2nd 2021, 4:40 pm
#8
Forum Regular
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 38
Re: Moving Back to UK from Canada- Any Recent Experiences?
Yes, sadly an exit is long overdue. I've only got another 15-20 years worth of work left in me and I sure as hell don't want to be poorly-paid in Canada. The UK or US or Europe it is then.
Jul 3rd 2021, 12:28 am
#9
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Joined: Nov 2004
Location: Looe, Cornwall
Posts: 673
Re: Moving Back to UK from Canada- Any Recent Experiences?
We are heading back on the 18th July from Victoria. Everything going to plan, sold property, car and most of our belongings. We have Purchased a property in Looe, Cornwall in a conservation area so we don't have to experience this Canadian nightmare again. It's been tough with so much to to do. We won't miss the Canadian inefficiency and bureaucracy which drives us insane. We submitted our NR73 forms to the CRA 7 weeks ago. 1 week ago they returned the forms because we sent in a cover letter saying we will be leaving on the 18th July etc, etc, subject to COVID any new restrictions. They asked us to submit the exactly the same forms that they already have stating we would be definitely be leaving on the 18th. I called the CRA # they provided if I had any questions. 3 hours later they said I needed to speak with a different dept and they would call me in the next 5 days which eventually they did. We got no joy as it was like speaking to a robot who had no idea what she was speaking about. Eventually as I gave up trying to reason with her the lady said that the current processing time would be another 6 weeks, absolutely comical. Does nobody in Canada have any common sense? Perhaps they should stick to knocking statues down, trying to rewrite history and apologizing to everyone for the past.
So glad to be leaving. They have turned our local town into a moonscape, one of the most hideous and environmentally destructive things I have ever had the displeasure to witness. There is not one part of turn which is not being dug up. There are road works, construction traffic and dust everywhere. Its difficulty to move around and no plans have to deal with the insanely increased density. How very Canadian. Before anyone says anything I suggest they visit the area and just see what these morons have done to this place.
So glad to be leaving. They have turned our local town into a moonscape, one of the most hideous and environmentally destructive things I have ever had the displeasure to witness. There is not one part of turn which is not being dug up. There are road works, construction traffic and dust everywhere. Its difficulty to move around and no plans have to deal with the insanely increased density. How very Canadian. Before anyone says anything I suggest they visit the area and just see what these morons have done to this place.
Jul 3rd 2021, 4:15 am
#10
Forum Regular
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 156
Re: Moving Back to UK from Canada- Any Recent Experiences?
We are heading back on the 18th July from Victoria. Everything going to plan, sold property, car and most of our belongings. We have Purchased a property in Looe, Cornwall in a conservation area so we don't have to experience this Canadian nightmare again. It's been tough with so much to to do. We won't miss the Canadian inefficiency and bureaucracy which drives us insane. We submitted our NR73 forms to the CRA 7 weeks ago. 1 week ago they returned the forms because we sent in a cover letter saying we will be leaving on the 18th July etc, etc, subject to COVID any new restrictions. They asked us to submit the exactly the same forms that they already have stating we would be definitely be leaving on the 18th. I called the CRA # they provided if I had any questions. 3 hours later they said I needed to speak with a different dept and they would call me in the next 5 days which eventually they did. We got no joy as it was like speaking to a robot who had no idea what she was speaking about. Eventually as I gave up trying to reason with her the lady said that the current processing time would be another 6 weeks, absolutely comical. Does nobody in Canada have any common sense? Perhaps they should stick to knocking statues down, trying to rewrite history and apologizing to everyone for the past.
So glad to be leaving. They have turned our local town into a moonscape, one of the most hideous and environmentally destructive things I have ever had the displeasure to witness. There is not one part of turn which is not being dug up. There are road works, construction traffic and dust everywhere. Its difficulty to move around and no plans have to deal with the insanely increased density. How very Canadian. Before anyone says anything I suggest they visit the area and just see what these morons have done to this place.
So glad to be leaving. They have turned our local town into a moonscape, one of the most hideous and environmentally destructive things I have ever had the displeasure to witness. There is not one part of turn which is not being dug up. There are road works, construction traffic and dust everywhere. Its difficulty to move around and no plans have to deal with the insanely increased density. How very Canadian. Before anyone says anything I suggest they visit the area and just see what these morons have done to this place.
Jul 3rd 2021, 3:01 pm
#11
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,148
Re: Moving Back to UK from Canada- Any Recent Experiences?
We are heading back on the 18th July from Victoria. Everything going to plan, sold property, car and most of our belongings. We have Purchased a property in Looe, Cornwall in a conservation area so we don't have to experience this Canadian nightmare again. It's been tough with so much to to do. We won't miss the Canadian inefficiency and bureaucracy which drives us insane. We submitted our NR73 forms to the CRA 7 weeks ago. 1 week ago they returned the forms because we sent in a cover letter saying we will be leaving on the 18th July etc, etc, subject to COVID any new restrictions. They asked us to submit the exactly the same forms that they already have stating we would be definitely be leaving on the 18th. I called the CRA # they provided if I had any questions. 3 hours later they said I needed to speak with a different dept and they would call me in the next 5 days which eventually they did. We got no joy as it was like speaking to a robot who had no idea what she was speaking about. Eventually as I gave up trying to reason with her the lady said that the current processing time would be another 6 weeks, absolutely comical. Does nobody in Canada have any common sense? Perhaps they should stick to knocking statues down, trying to rewrite history and apologizing to everyone for the past.
So glad to be leaving. They have turned our local town into a moonscape, one of the most hideous and environmentally destructive things I have ever had the displeasure to witness. There is not one part of turn which is not being dug up. There are road works, construction traffic and dust everywhere. Its difficulty to move around and no plans have to deal with the insanely increased density. How very Canadian. Before anyone says anything I suggest they visit the area and just see what these morons have done to this place.
So glad to be leaving. They have turned our local town into a moonscape, one of the most hideous and environmentally destructive things I have ever had the displeasure to witness. There is not one part of turn which is not being dug up. There are road works, construction traffic and dust everywhere. Its difficulty to move around and no plans have to deal with the insanely increased density. How very Canadian. Before anyone says anything I suggest they visit the area and just see what these morons have done to this place.
.
Jul 3rd 2021, 8:31 pm
#12
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Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 27
Re: Moving Back to UK from Canada- Any Recent Experiences?
I came to Canada 1989 going back to UK 2022.My first impressions of Canada were tainted not all Canadians are like the people I first worked with here.Worked for 28 years in same job(meatcutter) people wouldent talk to me would go of sick as soon as a big sale came up leaving me with all the work.At first I was in denial thinking it will pass but never did.My last 6 months working was verging on a breakdown.So for me cant wait to get back to Scotland was sickened by the rudeness I encountered .I was so lighthearted when I first got here that dissapeared I can tell you.Sorry for the ramble I will leave and never look back..........
Jul 3rd 2021, 9:11 pm
#14
Forum Regular
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 156
Re: Moving Back to UK from Canada- Any Recent Experiences?
No need to apologise mate- it's similar with me. I used to be more free-spirited and light-hearted before. I doubt I'd ever go back to the person I was a decade ago but oh well. Is that the reason you're going back or are there other things that prompted you to move back after 28 years?
Jul 4th 2021, 3:40 am
#15
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Re: Moving Back to UK from Canada- Any Recent Experiences?
I miss UK comedy shows and the sense of humour as well. I watch clips on YouTube but it's no the same thing. My only concern with moving back is quality of life in the UK has deteriorated especially since Brexit. Otherwise I wouldn't be conflicted.