Making Friends
Jan 25th 2007, 1:38 pm
#47
Gutter Gob!!
Joined: Feb 2005
Location: Perth
Posts: 13,098
Re: Making Friends
It's not arrogant to have pride in your country or a positive opinion of it and it's people. It is arrogant though, when people constantly bang on about how it's simply the best country in the and the best people in the world? How do people even begin to propose the criteria for such a ludicrous assessment? Let alone measure it and then claim their results as gospel?
Jan 26th 2007, 1:00 am
#48
Jedi Princess
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Melbourne,Australia
Posts: 2,089
Re: Making Friends
As for 'natives', the true natives of Australia are the Aboriginal people. However, all who are born in OZ are indeed Australians, just not natives in teh true sense of the word.
Jan 26th 2007, 1:15 am
#49
Gutter Gob!!
Joined: Feb 2005
Location: Perth
Posts: 13,098
Re: Making Friends
Who thinks they are better? I for one have never claimed to be "better" than anyone else. I have however pointed out an underlying (perhaps painful) truth about Australian society that some just prefer to ignore or pretend doesn't exist.
As for 'natives', the true natives of Australia are the Aboriginal people. However, all who are born in OZ are indeed Australians, just not natives in teh true sense of the word.
As for 'natives', the true natives of Australia are the Aboriginal people. However, all who are born in OZ are indeed Australians, just not natives in teh true sense of the word.
Jan 26th 2007, 2:51 am
#50
Jedi Princess
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Melbourne,Australia
Posts: 2,089
Re: Making Friends
I was telling you how I see it in my life in the northern suburbs. I haven't found the same problems as you, I have a couple of Australian friends who I have known for a long time and are nothing like you describe. It isn't a truth it is your opinion and i just have a differing one.
Yes your experience is different and also 'truthful' for you. Opinion is a loose term as one can hold any number of opinions without ever having had any personal experience of the topics on which they hold these opinions. This is how societies have developed their myths and legends or narratives (grand and petite) and kept control and order of the majority.
Jan 26th 2007, 10:02 am
#51
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Hill overlooking the SE Melbourne suburbs
Posts: 16,622
Re: Making Friends
When enough people report similar experiences ( and on this topic they have and i'm not just limiting the scope to BE) then it becomes a bone fide phenomenon and that in turn makes it a truth. Not an absolute truth, but a truth, nonetheless.
Yes your experience is different and also 'truthful' for you. Opinion is a loose term as one can hold any number of opinions without ever having had any personal experience of the topics on which they hold these opinions. This is how societies have developed their myths and legends or narratives (grand and petite) and kept control and order of the majority.
Yes your experience is different and also 'truthful' for you. Opinion is a loose term as one can hold any number of opinions without ever having had any personal experience of the topics on which they hold these opinions. This is how societies have developed their myths and legends or narratives (grand and petite) and kept control and order of the majority.
But truth is also an opinion. The fact that many people do develop full relationships here means there experiences are just as truthful.
I guess we need a full 'vote'. But that would be meaningless too for obvious reasons. In these situations I'm always inclined to go with the positive - why - people in negative situations or 'running negative' - low esteem or something- will always find a 'system' to bash. In the workplace, it's the old shop floor mentality - them and us.
When I was 21, I was a bit like you Kikiwild - oops Kiwichild - (typo left in as joke) I was in a situation for 6 months which I could not get out of and I admit I got a bit fed up. I haven't felt down since then and that was 15 odd years ago. A year later, it was all water off a duck's back.
I find that a lot of students, especially liberal arts students often go through self-doubts as they are studying 'negativity' and the nature of the beast is to be self-critical/group-critical/system/stuctural critical. Mate, I had to do some liberal arts studies and the people on the course had the lowest self-esteem I've ever met. The scientists and the historians had far more esteem. The business students had the most self-esteem lol. (w*nkers)
Maybe when you get out of uni you'll cheer up! Uni is a funny thing. There can be a lot of people pretending to be having a fun time when they aren't.
Jan 27th 2007, 1:27 am
#52
Jedi Princess
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Melbourne,Australia
Posts: 2,089
Re: Making Friends
I like your point about myths and legends. I find Australia to be deep in myth and legend and many are just that - a lot of people play too much importance to them. Not all Aussies love sport etc.
But truth is also an opinion. The fact that many people do develop full relationships here means there experiences are just as truthful.
I guess we need a full 'vote'. But that would be meaningless too for obvious reasons. In these situations I'm always inclined to go with the positive - why - people in negative situations or 'running negative' - low esteem or something- will always find a 'system' to bash. In the workplace, it's the old shop floor mentality - them and us.
When I was 21, I was a bit like you Kikiwild - oops Kiwichild - (typo left in as joke) I was in a situation for 6 months which I could not get out of and I admit I got a bit fed up. I haven't felt down since then and that was 15 odd years ago. A year later, it was all water off a duck's back.
I find that a lot of students, especially liberal arts students often go through self-doubts as they are studying 'negativity' and the nature of the beast is to be self-critical/group-critical/system/stuctural critical. Mate, I had to do some liberal arts studies and the people on the course had the lowest self-esteem I've ever met. The scientists and the historians had far more esteem. The business students had the most self-esteem lol. (w*nkers)
Maybe when you get out of uni you'll cheer up! Uni is a funny thing. There can be a lot of people pretending to be having a fun time when they aren't.
But truth is also an opinion. The fact that many people do develop full relationships here means there experiences are just as truthful.
I guess we need a full 'vote'. But that would be meaningless too for obvious reasons. In these situations I'm always inclined to go with the positive - why - people in negative situations or 'running negative' - low esteem or something- will always find a 'system' to bash. In the workplace, it's the old shop floor mentality - them and us.
When I was 21, I was a bit like you Kikiwild - oops Kiwichild - (typo left in as joke) I was in a situation for 6 months which I could not get out of and I admit I got a bit fed up. I haven't felt down since then and that was 15 odd years ago. A year later, it was all water off a duck's back.
I find that a lot of students, especially liberal arts students often go through self-doubts as they are studying 'negativity' and the nature of the beast is to be self-critical/group-critical/system/stuctural critical. Mate, I had to do some liberal arts studies and the people on the course had the lowest self-esteem I've ever met. The scientists and the historians had far more esteem. The business students had the most self-esteem lol. (w*nkers)
Maybe when you get out of uni you'll cheer up! Uni is a funny thing. There can be a lot of people pretending to be having a fun time when they aren't.
I don't have any particular agendas and I don't have any self-esteem or social skills issues. Business and technology students tend to be those who focus on the detail, I tend to focus on the bigger picture. Uni does though emphasise the development of critical and analytical thinking. This I think is a good thing, not a negative.
If society never questions or challenges itself, then it will never acknowledge its mistakes or grow. The mentality of it will stagnate. Unfortuantely this is happening across some sectors in Australia and other countries. It's the duty of those who are aware of this to challenge it and point out there is a different level of thought and reflection than the one that is being driven by corporate, media and government forces.
Jan 27th 2007, 6:34 am
#54
Gutter Gob!!
Joined: Feb 2005
Location: Perth
Posts: 13,098
Re: Making Friends
Well Badge, yes uni has given me an awareness and greater understanding of ideology and how societies are constructed. However, I'm not 21 but mid 40s and have lived in OZ since the mid 90s, so my experiences, observations, discussions with others, impressions etc have been taken over a lengthy period of time and comparisons made to what I know of the social interaction in other countries I have lived.
I don't have any particular agendas and I don't have any self-esteem or social skills issues. Business and technology students tend to be those who focus on the detail, I tend to focus on the bigger picture. Uni does though emphasise the development of critical and analytical thinking. This I think is a good thing, not a negative.
If society never questions or challenges itself, then it will never acknowledge its mistakes or grow. The mentality of it will stagnate. Unfortuantely this is happening across some sectors in Australia and other countries. It's the duty of those who are aware of this to challenge it and point out there is a different level of thought and reflection than the one that is being driven by corporate, media and government forces.
I don't have any particular agendas and I don't have any self-esteem or social skills issues. Business and technology students tend to be those who focus on the detail, I tend to focus on the bigger picture. Uni does though emphasise the development of critical and analytical thinking. This I think is a good thing, not a negative.
If society never questions or challenges itself, then it will never acknowledge its mistakes or grow. The mentality of it will stagnate. Unfortuantely this is happening across some sectors in Australia and other countries. It's the duty of those who are aware of this to challenge it and point out there is a different level of thought and reflection than the one that is being driven by corporate, media and government forces.
Jan 27th 2007, 11:02 am
#55
Banned
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 880
Re: Making Friends
Personally and it is only personal opinion, I feel its since we started to challenge and question that is when all the problems start because people have such differing opinions about social issues. Acknowledging mistakes is one thing but when you have people who are so set in their ways they can't or won't have their views challenged you are never going to make progress.
Jan 28th 2007, 3:01 am
#57
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Hill overlooking the SE Melbourne suburbs
Posts: 16,622
Re: Making Friends
Personally and it is only personal opinion, I feel its since we started to challenge and question that is when all the problems start because people have such differing opinions about social issues. Acknowledging mistakes is one thing but when you have people who are so set in their ways they can't or won't have their views challenged you are never going to make progress.
Jan 28th 2007, 3:15 am
#58
Account Closed
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,196
Re: Making Friends
I've been challenging things all my life - some would call me a maverick - but the single most crafty skill - one of the top 'life skills' in my opinion is to know when to balance this with 'playing the game'. If you can balance these just right, life can be quite easy - and very stress free(!) It never ceases to amaze me the situations people get themselves into because of not doing this.
Thats the US.
Jan 28th 2007, 4:06 am
#59
Jedi Princess
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Melbourne,Australia
Posts: 2,089
Re: Making Friends
Personally and it is only personal opinion, I feel its since we started to challenge and question that is when all the problems start because people have such differing opinions about social issues. Acknowledging mistakes is one thing but when you have people who are so set in their ways they can't or won't have their views challenged you are never going to make progress.
It's a mix of social conditioning and personal experience usually. In days gone by people took on the same views politically and otherwise as thier parents etc. Behind all opinion is an ideology. How so? Well we don't exist in a vacuum and we all seek to 'fit in' somewhere. Some don't hold strong opinions on anything, they just 'go with the flow'.
As for being set in their ways, well imagine asking someone in their 40s, 50s or 60s to consider a different POV; they may well feel threatened if they don't have a strong sense of self worth as one's opinions,beliefs and values appears to be the very core of their identity. It poses the question: If what I think and believe are incorrect then who am I really? Too confronting for many.
Jan 28th 2007, 4:13 am
#60
Jedi Princess
Joined: Jun 2006
Location: Melbourne,Australia
Posts: 2,089
Re: Making Friends
I've been challenging things all my life - some would call me a maverick - but the single most crafty skill - one of the top 'life skills' in my opinion is to know when to balance this with 'playing the game'. If you can balance these just right, life can be quite easy - and very stress free(!) It never ceases to amaze me the situations people get themselves into because of not doing this.
The thing is if enough people become more aware and start demanding more from life, we might start to see the growth of a new age in human sociology and politics.