Living in the UK but Dad is considering returning to France with mum
Nov 24th 2017, 12:12 pm
#16
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 526
Re: Living in the UK but Dad is considering returning to France with mum
On the house, just a couple of points.
Firstly, the obvious thing to do is ask the local authority what steps they would regard as reasonable, as regards disposing of the property in France.
Secondly, the local authority cannot place a charge on a property in France, which is why deferring care home fees is not an option.
However, I'd like to know whether the OP has actually had a financial assessment done by the authority, or just been given advice over the phone? In the OP's place I would insist on a financial assessment being done. And I'd consider an appeal if refused help because of the house in France. If the value of the house cannot be realised because it is unsellable, then, arguably, it should be given a value of nil in the assessment.
Firstly, the obvious thing to do is ask the local authority what steps they would regard as reasonable, as regards disposing of the property in France.
Secondly, the local authority cannot place a charge on a property in France, which is why deferring care home fees is not an option.
However, I'd like to know whether the OP has actually had a financial assessment done by the authority, or just been given advice over the phone? In the OP's place I would insist on a financial assessment being done. And I'd consider an appeal if refused help because of the house in France. If the value of the house cannot be realised because it is unsellable, then, arguably, it should be given a value of nil in the assessment.
to Dayperson-This is good advice from Editha . take note.. it makes sense.
Nov 24th 2017, 7:29 pm
#17
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 91
Re: Living in the UK but Dad is considering returning to France with mum
On the house, just a couple of points.
Firstly, the obvious thing to do is ask the local authority what steps they would regard as reasonable, as regards disposing of the property in France.
Secondly, the local authority cannot place a charge on a property in France, which is why deferring care home fees is not an option.
However, I'd like to know whether the OP has actually had a financial assessment done by the authority, or just been given advice over the phone? In the OP's place I would insist on a financial assessment being done. And I'd consider an appeal if refused help because of the house in France. If the value of the house cannot be realised because it is unsellable, then, arguably, it should be given a value of nil in the assessment.
Firstly, the obvious thing to do is ask the local authority what steps they would regard as reasonable, as regards disposing of the property in France.
Secondly, the local authority cannot place a charge on a property in France, which is why deferring care home fees is not an option.
However, I'd like to know whether the OP has actually had a financial assessment done by the authority, or just been given advice over the phone? In the OP's place I would insist on a financial assessment being done. And I'd consider an appeal if refused help because of the house in France. If the value of the house cannot be realised because it is unsellable, then, arguably, it should be given a value of nil in the assessment.
Nov 24th 2017, 7:31 pm
#18
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 91
Re: Living in the UK but Dad is considering returning to France with mum
yo
You need some independent legal advice as to what can be done... have you gone to citizens advice bureau yet? There will be someone who can advise but you may need to keep at it to find the right person. Then you can take Dad along to have things explained to him.
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/ab...advice/advice/
also do ring Age Concern ( now Age uk) as they may also know the answer
https://www.ageuk.org.uk/
freephone 0800 055 6112
You need some independent legal advice as to what can be done... have you gone to citizens advice bureau yet? There will be someone who can advise but you may need to keep at it to find the right person. Then you can take Dad along to have things explained to him.
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/ab...advice/advice/
also do ring Age Concern ( now Age uk) as they may also know the answer
https://www.ageuk.org.uk/
freephone 0800 055 6112
Nov 24th 2017, 9:35 pm
#19
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: May 2010
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 9,652
Re: Living in the UK but Dad is considering returning to France with mum
I have been reading this thread with interest, and, I must admit, I do not understand your situation at all.
According to your earlier posts you all moved to France some 10+ years ago and purchased a house.
Also, as per earlier posts, neither you nor your father have worked for years (you seem to be trying to start up a software application business). Your father is relatively young (63), so when you say that you have savings for 2 years and then will be skint if the house in France does not sell, why are you and father not planning to get jobs?
You have had some care services in the UK and your father is now threatening to stop that if you have to pay for it !
While you rant against services and benefit eligibility in the UK, you do not appear to have any qualms about not taking any responsibility for the situation you find yourself in.
Ready for the flaming.......
According to your earlier posts you all moved to France some 10+ years ago and purchased a house.
Also, as per earlier posts, neither you nor your father have worked for years (you seem to be trying to start up a software application business). Your father is relatively young (63), so when you say that you have savings for 2 years and then will be skint if the house in France does not sell, why are you and father not planning to get jobs?
You have had some care services in the UK and your father is now threatening to stop that if you have to pay for it !
While you rant against services and benefit eligibility in the UK, you do not appear to have any qualms about not taking any responsibility for the situation you find yourself in.
Ready for the flaming.......
Nov 24th 2017, 10:05 pm
#20
`
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 38,611
Re: Living in the UK but Dad is considering returning to France with mum
....... no flaming from me.
I'm actually quite confused as to the actual situation & believe other posters are also.
Perhaps collating the facts we know into one place might help everyone.
At one point I thought the parents were 'aged' or 'elderly' from what was written. Now I see the father is the same age as me.
I also thought the poster was ' young' but if the parents are in their 60's, then she might be around 40 ? *unsure*
There are so many/too many threads . Some clarity would be good.
I'm actually quite confused as to the actual situation & believe other posters are also.
Perhaps collating the facts we know into one place might help everyone.
At one point I thought the parents were 'aged' or 'elderly' from what was written. Now I see the father is the same age as me.
I also thought the poster was ' young' but if the parents are in their 60's, then she might be around 40 ? *unsure*
There are so many/too many threads . Some clarity would be good.
Nov 25th 2017, 2:54 am
#21
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 91
Re: Living in the UK but Dad is considering returning to France with mum
My dad got us into this mess, we should have moved back sooner when the doctor refused to treat mum but I was having my own post op treatment so we couldn't easily.
We have a meeting in the UK on Monday regarding mum with the doctor, care worker, Alzheimer's Society etc to do a review. Hopefully some issues may be raised and addressed but I am not looking forward to it.
Nov 25th 2017, 6:55 am
#22
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Apr 2008
Location: Hérault (34)
Posts: 8,888
Re: Living in the UK but Dad is considering returning to France with mum
Mum is 68, dad is 63 and I am in my 30s.
My dad got us into this mess, we should have moved back sooner when the doctor refused to treat mum but I was having my own post op treatment so we couldn't easily.
We have a meeting in the UK on Monday regarding mum with the doctor, care worker, Alzheimer's Society etc to do a review. Hopefully some issues may be raised and addressed but I am not looking forward to it.
My dad got us into this mess, we should have moved back sooner when the doctor refused to treat mum but I was having my own post op treatment so we couldn't easily.
We have a meeting in the UK on Monday regarding mum with the doctor, care worker, Alzheimer's Society etc to do a review. Hopefully some issues may be raised and addressed but I am not looking forward to it.
We've advised on all aspects of your problem on the France front, albeit without knowledge of all the facts, and frustration is setting in, as your father isn't taking any notice. He must accept to sell the French house, by auction now, as it's urgent to provide for your Mum's well-being. He must understand that it would be catastrophic for both of them to return to France, whatever the Bergerac Alzheimers group told him. Their former Doctor won't welcome them with open arms...
I could go on, but ... (can't find "knocking head against brick wall" smiley)
Nov 25th 2017, 10:13 am
#23
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 526
Re: Living in the UK but Dad is considering returning to France with mum
.
There may be an option of demonstrating the difficulty re selling the house. Perhaps an expert / or similar statement as to the state of the market in that area of France. You could ask Citizens advice about that and if it would help your situation. Also try and find out what the value would be at auction? Perhaps drop the price now and see if any interest.
Would your parents give you a power of attorney (
as per French regulations) so you could go and deal with the sale if an offer comes up?
Nov 25th 2017, 10:20 am
#24
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 526
Re: Living in the UK but Dad is considering returning to France with mum
Mum is 68, dad is 63 and I am in my 30s.
My dad got us into this mess, we should have moved back sooner when the doctor refused to treat mum but I was having my own post op treatment so we couldn't easily.
We have a meeting in the UK on Monday regarding mum with the doctor, care worker, Alzheimer's Society etc to do a review. Hopefully some issues may be raised and addressed but I am not looking forward to it.
My dad got us into this mess, we should have moved back sooner when the doctor refused to treat mum but I was having my own post op treatment so we couldn't easily.
We have a meeting in the UK on Monday regarding mum with the doctor, care worker, Alzheimer's Society etc to do a review. Hopefully some issues may be raised and addressed but I am not looking forward to it.
Nov 25th 2017, 11:19 am
#25
Still alive
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,994
Re: Living in the UK but Dad is considering returning to France with mum
It seems that you're the one to raise all the issues and your Dad to accept the meeting's conclusions.
We've advised on all aspects of your problem on the France front, albeit without knowledge of all the facts, and frustration is setting in, as your father isn't taking any notice. He must accept to sell the French house, by auction now, as it's urgent to provide for your Mum's well-being. He must understand that it would be catastrophic for both of them to return to France, whatever the Bergerac Alzheimers group told him. Their former Doctor won't welcome them with open arms...
I could go on, but ... (can't find "knocking head against brick wall" smiley)
We've advised on all aspects of your problem on the France front, albeit without knowledge of all the facts, and frustration is setting in, as your father isn't taking any notice. He must accept to sell the French house, by auction now, as it's urgent to provide for your Mum's well-being. He must understand that it would be catastrophic for both of them to return to France, whatever the Bergerac Alzheimers group told him. Their former Doctor won't welcome them with open arms...
I could go on, but ... (can't find "knocking head against brick wall" smiley)
Nov 25th 2017, 4:28 pm
#26
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Apr 2008
Location: Hérault (34)
Posts: 8,888
Nov 25th 2017, 6:07 pm
#27
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: My happy place
Posts: 3,043
Re: Living in the UK but Dad is considering returning to France with mum
I know in this Brexit era it's absolutely forbidden to say anything positive about the UK or negative about the EU, so I'm really confused about where the snowflake rage should be directed here.
Are we hatin' on France or the UK?
Confused (not of Tunbridge Wells)
Are we hatin' on France or the UK?
Confused (not of Tunbridge Wells)
Nov 26th 2017, 7:30 pm
#28
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 603
Re: Living in the UK but Dad is considering returning to France with mum
I don't know if this was discussed over on your other thread about your situation but your mother may well qualify for NHS Continuing Healthcare. This is not means tested and is paid regardless of your cash savings or any homes you own.
It isn't easy to put together a successful application, or to make an appeal if initially denied, and needs good organization of the relevant medical records etc. The NHS doesn't have the money to cover all who should qualify so the process has been made arduous and the default decision seems to be to deny approval and hope the patient won't appeal. However, it seems well worth looking into.
Some good info here
https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/info/2...ing_healthcare
There are companies you can pay to do the application/appeal for you. Should NOT be necessary but I can understand why some people feel they need to turn to them. I have no knowledge about this company but they claim to be less expensive than the competition. Again, there should be no need to pay a company you should be able to make the application on behalf of your mum but if you feel too overwhelmed then maybe it's an option to look at.
Beacon Continuing Healthcare - How It Works - Beacon
An explanation of what can go wrong at assessment and why
https://caretobedifferent.co.uk/nhs-...st-assessment/
This is the NHS website but I think explanation on Alzheimer website is more helpful.
https://www.gov.uk/government/public...d-nursing-care
It isn't easy to put together a successful application, or to make an appeal if initially denied, and needs good organization of the relevant medical records etc. The NHS doesn't have the money to cover all who should qualify so the process has been made arduous and the default decision seems to be to deny approval and hope the patient won't appeal. However, it seems well worth looking into.
Some good info here
https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/info/2...ing_healthcare
There are companies you can pay to do the application/appeal for you. Should NOT be necessary but I can understand why some people feel they need to turn to them. I have no knowledge about this company but they claim to be less expensive than the competition. Again, there should be no need to pay a company you should be able to make the application on behalf of your mum but if you feel too overwhelmed then maybe it's an option to look at.
Beacon Continuing Healthcare - How It Works - Beacon
An explanation of what can go wrong at assessment and why
https://caretobedifferent.co.uk/nhs-...st-assessment/
This is the NHS website but I think explanation on Alzheimer website is more helpful.
https://www.gov.uk/government/public...d-nursing-care
Nov 27th 2017, 7:07 pm
#29
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 91
Re: Living in the UK but Dad is considering returning to France with mum
We had a multidisciplinary meeting which was mixed (social worker, mental health nurse and Pete from Alzheimer's Society), the doctor did not come despite saying she would. Dad was angry on several occasions and could not get past the fact he's self funding and could not afford care. They said basically mum needs care, 2 calls a day to cover bathing and dressing and the day centre for social interaction and if dad won't agree, they will have to escalate the case and get court of protection.
They arranged the same carers we had before (we had one twice a few months ago) and they arrived at 6pm tonight but dad explained he's not sure if he can afford them or what the arrangement is with social services.
Pete from Alzheimers has arranged to meet me in town next Tuesday for a coffee (I think he wants to see how I'm coping and how he can support me because it came up that I had no support to cope).
I'm not looking forward to the next couple of days while we sort this out. In the meantime I am claiming ESA rather than JSA due to the stress.
They arranged the same carers we had before (we had one twice a few months ago) and they arrived at 6pm tonight but dad explained he's not sure if he can afford them or what the arrangement is with social services.
Pete from Alzheimers has arranged to meet me in town next Tuesday for a coffee (I think he wants to see how I'm coping and how he can support me because it came up that I had no support to cope).
I'm not looking forward to the next couple of days while we sort this out. In the meantime I am claiming ESA rather than JSA due to the stress.
Nov 28th 2017, 7:23 am
#30
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 526
Re: Living in the UK but Dad is considering returning to France with mum
We had a multidisciplinary meeting which was mixed (social worker, mental health nurse and Pete from Alzheimer's Society), the doctor did not come despite saying she would. Dad was angry on several occasions and could not get past the fact he's self funding and could not afford care. They said basically mum needs care, 2 calls a day to cover bathing and dressing and the day centre for social interaction and if dad won't agree, they will have to escalate the case and get court of protection.
They arranged the same carers we had before (we had one twice a few months ago) and they arrived at 6pm tonight but dad explained he's not sure if he can afford them or what the arrangement is with social services.
Pete from Alzheimers has arranged to meet me in town next Tuesday for a coffee (I think he wants to see how I'm coping and how he can support me because it came up that I had no support to cope).
I'm not looking forward to the next couple of days while we sort this out. In the meantime I am claiming ESA rather than JSA due to the stress.
They arranged the same carers we had before (we had one twice a few months ago) and they arrived at 6pm tonight but dad explained he's not sure if he can afford them or what the arrangement is with social services.
Pete from Alzheimers has arranged to meet me in town next Tuesday for a coffee (I think he wants to see how I'm coping and how he can support me because it came up that I had no support to cope).
I'm not looking forward to the next couple of days while we sort this out. In the meantime I am claiming ESA rather than JSA due to the stress.
your father needs someone to explain the facts /options to him and support him... the last thing he needs is court of protection as they will use what assets you have for your mum's care plus all their costs...
I know people who have had to deal with them and it was a nightmare.