kaciz's tax filing theories
Mar 26th 2009, 6:11 am
#1
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 182
kaciz's tax filing theories
You can continue to play games with the immigration authorities... but their system is becoming very sophisticated. Since several months they will take your fingerprints and photos of you at every entry.
Disadvantage of your game: It has no end. It is very expensive. You can lose everything with every next entry. You can not become US citizen because you will fail to prove your residence in the US. Such game is also meaningless because you have both New Zealand and UK passport and can travel on the route London-Los Angeles-Auckland by Air New Zealan as often as you can.
Advantage of your game: If not caught in your deliquency, you can resume permanent residency one day, upon arrival.
Period of absence has no importance... you can lose your 'green card' upon only 1 day of absence. You will be surprise that immigration officers will know exact number of days of your absence.
The worst: As a permanent resident (your current status) you must declare all your worldwide income to US authorities - everything you have earned in the UK or in the New Zealand. Not doing this is the best way to end up in prison.
So, every time you enter US, you will face the immigration officer. If he hets suspicious, he will transfer you to secondary inspection. And the question about income taxes will emerge very quickly.
Good luck... you will very soon have the possibility to check if you are smarther than US immigration system. Personally, I would not bet on you.
Disadvantage of your game: It has no end. It is very expensive. You can lose everything with every next entry. You can not become US citizen because you will fail to prove your residence in the US. Such game is also meaningless because you have both New Zealand and UK passport and can travel on the route London-Los Angeles-Auckland by Air New Zealan as often as you can.
Advantage of your game: If not caught in your deliquency, you can resume permanent residency one day, upon arrival.
Period of absence has no importance... you can lose your 'green card' upon only 1 day of absence. You will be surprise that immigration officers will know exact number of days of your absence.
The worst: As a permanent resident (your current status) you must declare all your worldwide income to US authorities - everything you have earned in the UK or in the New Zealand. Not doing this is the best way to end up in prison.
So, every time you enter US, you will face the immigration officer. If he hets suspicious, he will transfer you to secondary inspection. And the question about income taxes will emerge very quickly.
Good luck... you will very soon have the possibility to check if you are smarther than US immigration system. Personally, I would not bet on you.
Mar 26th 2009, 6:45 am
#2
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 182
Re: Accusation of Greencard Abandonment?
Well, I do not get it....
If you want to simulate your permanent residency, you should avoid declaring your income abroad, and even filing the state tax return....
If you declare your income abroad, why do dare to simulate your permanent residency in the US?
Additional complication: By declaring the taxes, you claim the access to US retirement and additional benefits via US Social Security. If you do the same in the UK, one day, you get old, and want a pension, everything will be very visible.
Now, you are young and smart.... But, one day you can become old and senile... and forget your smart constructions. The US authorities will need just to press the button and ask UK authorities for the help which they will not refuse....
If you want to simulate your permanent residency, you should avoid declaring your income abroad, and even filing the state tax return....
If you declare your income abroad, why do dare to simulate your permanent residency in the US?
Additional complication: By declaring the taxes, you claim the access to US retirement and additional benefits via US Social Security. If you do the same in the UK, one day, you get old, and want a pension, everything will be very visible.
Now, you are young and smart.... But, one day you can become old and senile... and forget your smart constructions. The US authorities will need just to press the button and ask UK authorities for the help which they will not refuse....
Mar 26th 2009, 7:43 am
#3
Just Joined
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 8
Re: Accusation of Greencard Abandonment?
Sorry, Roth20, I just wanted to warn you.
What you are doing is kind of a mess.
You are challenging not only the immigratiuon authorities (less serious game) but also the tax authorities (serious game).
Other participants said: "You do have to *report* your worldwide income, regardless of where it's earned or where you were. You may find that if you became a PR in November, you still have to report for the entire year, but I'm not 100% certain on that." Yes, this is completely true and this is one elementary thing.
If you make mistakes with such elementary things you should be aware of very seriuos consequences. You need to sit down and honestly declare what have you earned and in which country, in which time period. Your worldwide income is taxable in the US for the entire year.
After that you need to write the letter to US Tax authorities and try to fix the problem. It is better tat you do it yourself. Otherwise, the immigration officer can initiate the detailed check.
What you are doing is kind of a mess.
You are challenging not only the immigratiuon authorities (less serious game) but also the tax authorities (serious game).
Other participants said: "You do have to *report* your worldwide income, regardless of where it's earned or where you were. You may find that if you became a PR in November, you still have to report for the entire year, but I'm not 100% certain on that." Yes, this is completely true and this is one elementary thing.
If you make mistakes with such elementary things you should be aware of very seriuos consequences. You need to sit down and honestly declare what have you earned and in which country, in which time period. Your worldwide income is taxable in the US for the entire year.
After that you need to write the letter to US Tax authorities and try to fix the problem. It is better tat you do it yourself. Otherwise, the immigration officer can initiate the detailed check.
Mar 26th 2009, 9:18 am
#4
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 182
Re: Accusation of Greencard Abandonment?
Sorry, misunderstanding.
According to US taxation, if you have low income, you do not need to file any tax. The problem is that OP filed even state tax. At the same time he/she was claiming to have low income, at least in the USA.
This is a sign that OP does not understand the nature of the US taxation system, not even to mention the coupling with the UK taxation.
I just wanted to tell him/her that it is a very serious issue. The OP is concerened whether he will be able to enter US forgetting that he/she is dealing with a very complicated matter.
I tried to help him/her and it took me too much efforts.
According to US taxation, if you have low income, you do not need to file any tax. The problem is that OP filed even state tax. At the same time he/she was claiming to have low income, at least in the USA.
This is a sign that OP does not understand the nature of the US taxation system, not even to mention the coupling with the UK taxation.
I just wanted to tell him/her that it is a very serious issue. The OP is concerened whether he will be able to enter US forgetting that he/she is dealing with a very complicated matter.
I tried to help him/her and it took me too much efforts.
Mar 26th 2009, 8:02 pm
#5
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 182
Re: Accusation of Greencard Abandonment?
It is virtually impossible to be permanent resident without permanently residing in the USA. The immigration laws are coupled with taxation laws and with social secutity laws.
If you try to bend only one set of rules, other ones are going to hit you hard. Green card is not only the entry visa to the USA. It is a document that entitle you to many rights and many OBLIGATIONS.
The first difficulty with beeing a permanent resident without permanently residing in the USA is the taxation.
The catch 22 is:
"If you want to show evidence of not abandoning your permanent resident status, you file your tax returns.
But, filing your tax returns will show that you have income abroad, earned during your stay abroad - because you MUST declare all your worldwide income.
If you do not file tax reuturn, or do not file it properly, than you are commiting serious offence."
If you try to outsmart taxatinion system, you will be hit by social security system as soon as you get entitled to any kind of benefits. It is not allowed for example to claim US pension without declaring some foreign earned pension. Pensions are acquired by earning money by work. And the Social Security Systems in many countries have long memory.... And they share informations with other countries as soon as something is not obvious.
In other words - trying to be permanent resident without permanently residing in the USA is just asking for very serious trouble. The "accusation of greencard abandonment" can easily turn to be accusation of tax avoidance and social security fraud.
You can not have only one portion of the meal. Living in America is completely different to travelling to America once in a while. As a foreigner in the USA, you are eather permanent resident or no resident at all.
If you try to bend only one set of rules, other ones are going to hit you hard. Green card is not only the entry visa to the USA. It is a document that entitle you to many rights and many OBLIGATIONS.
The first difficulty with beeing a permanent resident without permanently residing in the USA is the taxation.
The catch 22 is:
"If you want to show evidence of not abandoning your permanent resident status, you file your tax returns.
But, filing your tax returns will show that you have income abroad, earned during your stay abroad - because you MUST declare all your worldwide income.
If you do not file tax reuturn, or do not file it properly, than you are commiting serious offence."
If you try to outsmart taxatinion system, you will be hit by social security system as soon as you get entitled to any kind of benefits. It is not allowed for example to claim US pension without declaring some foreign earned pension. Pensions are acquired by earning money by work. And the Social Security Systems in many countries have long memory.... And they share informations with other countries as soon as something is not obvious.
In other words - trying to be permanent resident without permanently residing in the USA is just asking for very serious trouble. The "accusation of greencard abandonment" can easily turn to be accusation of tax avoidance and social security fraud.
You can not have only one portion of the meal. Living in America is completely different to travelling to America once in a while. As a foreigner in the USA, you are eather permanent resident or no resident at all.
Mar 27th 2009, 1:16 am
#6
Account Closed
Joined: Aug 2002
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 38,865
Re: Accusation of Greencard Abandonment?
If you do not file tax reuturn, or do not file it properly, than you are commiting serious offence."
It is not allowed for example to claim US pension without declaring some foreign earned pension.
The "accusation of greencard abandonment" can easily turn to be accusation of tax avoidance and social security fraud.
As a foreigner in the USA, you are eather permanent resident or no resident at all.
I've come to believe that *YOU* are a Sith Lord... because only the Sith deal in absolutes.
Ian
Mar 27th 2009, 1:17 am
#7
Concierge
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 46,468
Re: Accusation of Greencard Abandonment?
There are big holes in your argument.
You do not have to living in another country to earn money in that country. You could be telecommunicating your work to the UK or NZ while residing in the US and still have foreign income to report on your 1040 tax return.
You are again stating your opinion and that opinion is not based entirely on fact. It is on assumption. The IRS does not share a database with the USCIS. The reason USCIS wants to see a tax return is to show that you have filed taxes and proven your good character and adherence to federal law. It is not for proof of your residency.
BTW Social Security Administration has absolutely nothing to do with the USCIS other than verifying that you have the right to a social security number to enable you to work or just for use for record keeping.
My foreign born husband has been collecting his military pension from his country for all ten years of his residency in the US. He is still entitled to obtain a US social security benefit once he retires next year on top of his old age benefit from Canada.
Roth ... Mr. F has given you the proper advice for your type of situation. Go with it and let the opinions of others, be just that, opinions.
You do not have to living in another country to earn money in that country. You could be telecommunicating your work to the UK or NZ while residing in the US and still have foreign income to report on your 1040 tax return.
You are again stating your opinion and that opinion is not based entirely on fact. It is on assumption. The IRS does not share a database with the USCIS. The reason USCIS wants to see a tax return is to show that you have filed taxes and proven your good character and adherence to federal law. It is not for proof of your residency.
BTW Social Security Administration has absolutely nothing to do with the USCIS other than verifying that you have the right to a social security number to enable you to work or just for use for record keeping.
My foreign born husband has been collecting his military pension from his country for all ten years of his residency in the US. He is still entitled to obtain a US social security benefit once he retires next year on top of his old age benefit from Canada.
Roth ... Mr. F has given you the proper advice for your type of situation. Go with it and let the opinions of others, be just that, opinions.
Last edited by Rete; Mar 27th 2009 at 1:20 am.
Mar 27th 2009, 4:34 am
#8
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Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 182
Re: Accusation of Greencard Abandonment?
Dear Roth, I really took too very much efforts to give you very reliable information. I assume that Mr F is the immigration lawyer and that he will also discourage you from the intention of being US permanent resident while not living permanently in the USA. I would also suggest you to consult other lawyers specialized for taxation and social security.
I need to express my admiration to American laws. If you read them carefully, you would be right away aware that you are dealing with extremely smart people who wrote that laws. If you try to bend the system, you have in front of you the smartest of Americans who have foreseen every of your possible strategies.
My suggestion is: Please do not play James Bond. I assume you have both UK and New Zealand citizenship and in addition to that even the US permanent residence. Americans gave you the invitation to join them and you have either to accept that invitation or to decline it right away. They are good people and they will most probably forgive you the last year and accept you as a new resident. But, you can not keep their invitation unanswered by staying abroad. They have not foreseen such option in their laws.
In order to illustrate the common misconceptions I would give you the comments related to previous postings:
Example 1:
Argument: If you do not file tax return, or do not file it properly, than you are committing serious offence."
Counter Argument: Perhaps with respect to the IRS, but not as far as immigration is concerned.
My comment: Please do not play games with IRS. This institution is very, very serious. It is simply meaningless to file some wrong tax return for the sake of immigration purpose.
Example 2:
Argument: The IRS does not share a database with the USCIS. The reason USCIS wants to see a tax return is to show that you have filed taxes and proven your good character and adherence to federal law. It is not for proof of your residency.
My comment: Please do not count on this. US authorities have taken this disconnection of information between different authorities as their own weakness and security thread. They are doing their best to fix the problem.
Example 3:
Argument: You do not have to living in another country to earn money in that country. You could be telecommunicating your work to the UK or NZ while residing in the US and still have foreign income to report on your 1040 tax return.
My comment: Problem of Roth is that he is not telecommunicating his work while residing in the US. Instead of residing in the US he is residing in the UK or NZ causing UK and NZ authorities to claim his income for their own taxation.
Example 4:
Argument: It is not allowed for example to claim US pension without declaring some foreign earned pension.
Counter Argument: As you suggesting that someone who has lived and worked in the US their whole life, can not get a US pension because they don't have a foreign earned pension? That bollocks!
My final comment: Of course you can have both the US and foreign earned pension. But, both the height of your US pension and the taxation will depend whether you have the foreign pension in addition or not. Two American entitled to $50,000 US pension will have the entirely different claims and net income of their American $50,000 if the first of them does not have anything additional foreign pension and the second of them has additional pension of £50,000 in the UK. Surprising?
The very same problem you will face in the UK because their authorities have very similar rules. They do not want to treat the second person with £50,000 pension and additional $50,000 US Pension equally to someone who gets only £50,000 UK pension.
Example 5:
Argument: Social Security Administration has absolutely nothing to do with the USCIS other than verifying that you have the right to a social security number to enable you to work or just for use for record keeping.
My final comment: Please do not count on this. US Social Security works only under the assumption that your immigration status is OK. May be US Social Security today is not perfectly connected to USCIS but this can change any moment.
US Social security keeps the tracks for decades.... The foreign pension system do the same. It is very risky to keep your info hidden from some authority. One day you may get divorced and your spouse can require the separation of those pension rights (typical for many European countries).
Oh, my dear friend.... the first question the courts need to sort out is your immigration status because they need to determine the jurisdiction.... that means which country and which court has to deal with your case. Claiming that Social Security has nothing to do with USCIS is very misleading.
Example 6:
Argument: The "accusation of greencard abandonment" can easily turn to be accusation of tax avoidance and social security fraud.
Counter Argument: Bollocks!
My final comments: Dear Roth, you can demonstrate that you can bend the system and be permanent resident without living permanently in the USA. But, it is a kind of meaningless task. One day you may face any kind of trouble.... traffic accident, theft, divorce.... You can simply be on a wrong place in a wrong time, and someone will need to check your immigration status. For one foreigner it is virtually impossible to be US permanent resident without permanently living in the USA.
I need to express my admiration to American laws. If you read them carefully, you would be right away aware that you are dealing with extremely smart people who wrote that laws. If you try to bend the system, you have in front of you the smartest of Americans who have foreseen every of your possible strategies.
My suggestion is: Please do not play James Bond. I assume you have both UK and New Zealand citizenship and in addition to that even the US permanent residence. Americans gave you the invitation to join them and you have either to accept that invitation or to decline it right away. They are good people and they will most probably forgive you the last year and accept you as a new resident. But, you can not keep their invitation unanswered by staying abroad. They have not foreseen such option in their laws.
In order to illustrate the common misconceptions I would give you the comments related to previous postings:
Example 1:
Argument: If you do not file tax return, or do not file it properly, than you are committing serious offence."
Counter Argument: Perhaps with respect to the IRS, but not as far as immigration is concerned.
My comment: Please do not play games with IRS. This institution is very, very serious. It is simply meaningless to file some wrong tax return for the sake of immigration purpose.
Example 2:
Argument: The IRS does not share a database with the USCIS. The reason USCIS wants to see a tax return is to show that you have filed taxes and proven your good character and adherence to federal law. It is not for proof of your residency.
My comment: Please do not count on this. US authorities have taken this disconnection of information between different authorities as their own weakness and security thread. They are doing their best to fix the problem.
Example 3:
Argument: You do not have to living in another country to earn money in that country. You could be telecommunicating your work to the UK or NZ while residing in the US and still have foreign income to report on your 1040 tax return.
My comment: Problem of Roth is that he is not telecommunicating his work while residing in the US. Instead of residing in the US he is residing in the UK or NZ causing UK and NZ authorities to claim his income for their own taxation.
Example 4:
Argument: It is not allowed for example to claim US pension without declaring some foreign earned pension.
Counter Argument: As you suggesting that someone who has lived and worked in the US their whole life, can not get a US pension because they don't have a foreign earned pension? That bollocks!
My final comment: Of course you can have both the US and foreign earned pension. But, both the height of your US pension and the taxation will depend whether you have the foreign pension in addition or not. Two American entitled to $50,000 US pension will have the entirely different claims and net income of their American $50,000 if the first of them does not have anything additional foreign pension and the second of them has additional pension of £50,000 in the UK. Surprising?
The very same problem you will face in the UK because their authorities have very similar rules. They do not want to treat the second person with £50,000 pension and additional $50,000 US Pension equally to someone who gets only £50,000 UK pension.
Example 5:
Argument: Social Security Administration has absolutely nothing to do with the USCIS other than verifying that you have the right to a social security number to enable you to work or just for use for record keeping.
My final comment: Please do not count on this. US Social Security works only under the assumption that your immigration status is OK. May be US Social Security today is not perfectly connected to USCIS but this can change any moment.
US Social security keeps the tracks for decades.... The foreign pension system do the same. It is very risky to keep your info hidden from some authority. One day you may get divorced and your spouse can require the separation of those pension rights (typical for many European countries).
Oh, my dear friend.... the first question the courts need to sort out is your immigration status because they need to determine the jurisdiction.... that means which country and which court has to deal with your case. Claiming that Social Security has nothing to do with USCIS is very misleading.
Example 6:
Argument: The "accusation of greencard abandonment" can easily turn to be accusation of tax avoidance and social security fraud.
Counter Argument: Bollocks!
My final comments: Dear Roth, you can demonstrate that you can bend the system and be permanent resident without living permanently in the USA. But, it is a kind of meaningless task. One day you may face any kind of trouble.... traffic accident, theft, divorce.... You can simply be on a wrong place in a wrong time, and someone will need to check your immigration status. For one foreigner it is virtually impossible to be US permanent resident without permanently living in the USA.
Mar 27th 2009, 5:50 am
#9
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 35,082
Re: kaciz's tax filing theories
These comments were split out of this thread. They do not belong there but in acknowledgement of their creation, get their own home.
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