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i want to return, US hubby doesn't. Crisis point.

i want to return, US hubby doesn't. Crisis point.

Old Dec 5th 2018, 11:13 pm
  #46  
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Default Re: i want to return, US hubby doesn't. Crisis point.

Originally Posted by Novocastrian View Post
It would depend on his field. I don't think the OP has bothered to mention that.
Could be an identifying detail she wants to keep back. I was hoping you might pop in and say it was highly unlikely except for this and that, so she might at least get an idea whether he's exaggerating, misinformed or something.
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Old Dec 5th 2018, 11:43 pm
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Default Re: i want to return, US hubby doesn't. Crisis point.

pannacotta

You might have to force his hand.
Can you financially afford to live in Europe on your own without your husband's help? If the answer is yes then the two of you need to discuss the possibility of you alone spending more time away in Europe instead of just the short stays. Maybe increased time away(6 months per year) will help you to know just how important it is to move back to Europe or maybe that added time away will help your state of mind.. I think you need to express to him how your unhappiness is affecting your long term mental stability. If the two of you aren't able to get on the same page there is a good chance you will end up moving back to Europe without him anyway. Why not do a test run for about a year or two, and use that time to put together a comfortable life back home?

That will give him the opportunity to understand what his life will look like once he is forced to be more of a hand's on parent if the relationship breaks up. I would not be afraid, or feel guilty to leave him with the kids for longer periods of time especially if he is making his job the main priority in life. Unless he told you before your marriage that his career came first the main priority has changed. Maybe he needs to appreciate what it's like to work full-time and be a full-time parent. I think that new dynamic will force him to wake up. Right now with you running the house he doesn't have anything to lose, he has it too comfortable.

A frank conversation about where your relationship is going, need to take place. Enough with the fencing around!!

It is time to hit targets and draw blood. Right now he feel that he has the upper hand. The two of you need to HONESTLY discuss how important your relationship is. If the relationship is the top priority then you both need to look for room for compromise. You have lived in the states for twenty years and you have had enough. If his career is his main priority then I would wish that union well and you should use those extra months in Europe to build a strong foundation for your new life there. Those two years of preparation (6 months in the states 6 months in Europe) should help you restore your happiness, set plans for the future, and for him to see what it will feel like to be more of a full time parent. He sounds like the type of parent that wants to go to work full-time but be a part time parent. Maybe a reality check will help kick start a different mentality for everyone involved. Don't be afraid to force his hand! YOU are responsible for your happiness, not him!
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Old Dec 8th 2018, 10:24 pm
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Default Re: i want to return, US hubby doesn't. Crisis point.

Originally Posted by UkWinds5353 View Post
pannacotta

You might have to force his hand.
Can you financially afford to live in Europe on your own without your husband's help? If the answer is yes then the two of you need to discuss the possibility of you alone spending more time away in Europe instead of just the short stays. Maybe increased time away(6 months per year) will help you to know just how important it is to move back to Europe or maybe that added time away will help your state of mind.. I think you need to express to him how your unhappiness is affecting your long term mental stability. If the two of you aren't able to get on the same page there is a good chance you will end up moving back to Europe without him anyway. Why not do a test run for about a year or two, and use that time to put together a comfortable life back home?

That will give him the opportunity to understand what his life will look like once he is forced to be more of a hand's on parent if the relationship breaks up. I would not be afraid, or feel guilty to leave him with the kids for longer periods of time especially if he is making his job the main priority in life. Unless he told you before your marriage that his career came first the main priority has changed. Maybe he needs to appreciate what it's like to work full-time and be a full-time parent. I think that new dynamic will force him to wake up. Right now with you running the house he doesn't have anything to lose, he has it too comfortable.

A frank conversation about where your relationship is going, need to take place. Enough with the fencing around!!

It is time to hit targets and draw blood. Right now he feel that he has the upper hand. The two of you need to HONESTLY discuss how important your relationship is. If the relationship is the top priority then you both need to look for room for compromise. You have lived in the states for twenty years and you have had enough. If his career is his main priority then I would wish that union well and you should use those extra months in Europe to build a strong foundation for your new life there. Those two years of preparation (6 months in the states 6 months in Europe) should help you restore your happiness, set plans for the future, and for him to see what it will feel like to be more of a full time parent. He sounds like the type of parent that wants to go to work full-time but be a part time parent. Maybe a reality check will help kick start a different mentality for everyone involved. Don't be afraid to force his hand! YOU are responsible for your happiness, not him!
It seems that spending more time in Europe IF that is best for the children might force him to reflect on what is best for his children, as ultimately-hopefully- rather than personal happiness both parents put their children's interests. I wonder what the answer would be to a direct question- what is better for children. Rather than his concern for money, or both parets about money, or one parent unhappy in America.

The legal approach I think is a possible recipe for a disaster emotionally and financially.
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Old Dec 9th 2018, 3:29 am
  #49  
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Default Re: i want to return, US hubby doesn't. Crisis point.

Originally Posted by morpeth View Post
It seems that spending more time in Europe IF that is best for the children might force him to reflect on what is best for his children, as ultimately-hopefully- rather than personal happiness both parents put their children's interests. I wonder what the answer would be to a direct question- what is better for children. Rather than his concern for money, or both parets about money, or one parent unhappy in America.

The legal approach I think is a possible recipe for a disaster emotionally and financially.
To be honest I was hesitant in offering an opinion because the OP has a very tough decision to make. She seem like a very passionate and kind person that truly want to keep her marriage and family together. But speaking as a guy that can be a little stubborn on some issues it might help her to show him the outcome of his decision making. The man might be the head of the house but the woman is the neck. She needs to figure out how to turn his head in the right direction. If he has love for her and his kids then there is a chance of them moving to Europe but it's up to her to figure out how to use the influence she has in this situation. Even a person that loves their job can be persuaded to consider a different job option if that helps their family, but only if family priorities are upper most important. I wish the OP strength and determination.
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Old Dec 9th 2018, 6:02 pm
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Default Re: i want to return, US hubby doesn't. Crisis point.

Originally Posted by UkWinds5353 View Post
To be honest I was hesitant in offering an opinion because the OP has a very tough decision to make. She seem like a very passionate and kind person that truly want to keep her marriage and family together. But speaking as a guy that can be a little stubborn on some issues it might help her to show him the outcome of his decision making. The man might be the head of the house but the woman is the neck. She needs to figure out how to turn his head in the right direction. If he has love for her and his kids then there is a chance of them moving to Europe but it's up to her to figure out how to use the influence she has in this situation. Even a person that loves their job can be persuaded to consider a different job option if that helps their family, but only if family priorities are upper most important. I wish the OP strength and determination.
You have certainly worded thigs much better than I.
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Old Dec 9th 2018, 11:02 pm
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Default Re: i want to return, US hubby doesn't. Crisis point.

Originally Posted by UkWinds5353 View Post
To be honest I was hesitant in offering an opinion because the OP has a very tough decision to make. She seem like a very passionate and kind person that truly want to keep her marriage and family together. But speaking as a guy that can be a little stubborn on some issues it might help her to show him the outcome of his decision making. The man might be the head of the house but the woman is the neck. She needs to figure out how to turn his head in the right direction. If he has love for her and his kids then there is a chance of them moving to Europe but it's up to her to figure out how to use the influence she has in this situation. Even a person that loves their job can be persuaded to consider a different job option if that helps their family, but only if family priorities are upper most important. I wish the OP strength and determination.
wow great analysis and agree with all your comments !!
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Old Dec 10th 2018, 12:23 am
  #52  
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Default Re: i want to return, US hubby doesn't. Crisis point.

My take is so different from UKWinds. I don't see this as the husband playing a hand. He is an American; she is European (I believe French). She wants to return to Europe full time and he wants to continue to live and work in the US. He is like many people who do not have adventurous souls. They have found their comfortable spot. Are happy with their careers and life in general. They most likely feel that they have reached the pinnacle of success in their career and changing employers means losing more than just a paycheck but it is a lost of prestige.

Why did she marry him in the first place. She had to have known his personality, if not at the time of the marriage, then at least after the first year. Just as I knew at the start that my husband will never ever travel again. He has seen the world, lived in foreign countries across Europe and has no desire to board an airplane ever again. He bears me no grudge in seeking my travel adventurers much as the OP's husband doesn't begrudge her living back in Europe for months at a time. She doesn't appear to be a stupid person and frankly, she doesn't appear to be a person who is in love with her husband.

So where is the crisis? She is unhappy, dissatisfied with her life, her situation and her husband's resistance to changing countries. File for divorce, get a custody agreement that will allow you to take the children with you during the school year and allow them holidays and summers with their father, and go on with your life where you want to live.

If she persuades him to leave the US all she is doing is opening the door to his resentment of her in the future for forcing him to abandon what he considers his happy life. She should not try to turn his head. One should never force, however gently you do it, someone to do something that they don't want to do. Besides, perhaps he is as unhappy in this marriage as she is and is secretly hoping that this will prove the catalyst that ends it.
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Old Dec 10th 2018, 12:31 am
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Default Re: i want to return, US hubby doesn't. Crisis point.

Originally Posted by Rete View Post
My take is so different from UKWinds. I don't see this as the husband playing a hand. He is an American; she is European (I believe French). She wants to return to Europe full time and he wants to continue to live and work in the US. He is like many people who do not have adventurous souls. They have found their comfortable spot. Are happy with their careers and life in general. They most likely feel that they have reached the pinnacle of success in their career and changing employers means losing more than just a paycheck but it is a lost of prestige.

Why did she marry him in the first place. She had to have known his personality, if not at the time of the marriage, then at least after the first year. Just as I knew at the start that my husband will never ever travel again. He has seen the world, lived in foreign countries across Europe and has no desire to board an airplane ever again. He bears me no grudge in seeking my travel adventurers much as the OP's husband doesn't begrudge her living back in Europe for months at a time. She doesn't appear to be a stupid person and frankly, she doesn't appear to be a person who is in love with her husband.

So where is the crisis? She is unhappy, dissatisfied with her life, her situation and her husband's resistance to changing countries. File for divorce, get a custody agreement that will allow you to take the children with you during the school year and allow them holidays and summers with their father, and go on with your life where you want to live.

If she persuades him to leave the US all she is doing is opening the door to his resentment of her in the future for forcing him to abandon what he considers his happy life. She should not try to turn his head. One should never force, however gently you do it, someone to do something that they don't want to do. Besides, perhaps he is as unhappy in this marriage as she is and is secretly hoping that this will prove the catalyst that ends it.
Another great perspective !!
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Old Dec 10th 2018, 3:14 am
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Default Re: i want to return, US hubby doesn't. Crisis point.

Originally Posted by Rete View Post
My take is so different from UKWinds. I don't see this as the husband playing a hand. He is an American; she is European (I believe French). She wants to return to Europe full time and he wants to continue to live and work in the US. He is like many people who do not have adventurous souls. They have found their comfortable spot. Are happy with their careers and life in general. They most likely feel that they have reached the pinnacle of success in their career and changing employers means losing more than just a paycheck but it is a lost of prestige.

Why did she marry him in the first place. She had to have known his personality, if not at the time of the marriage, then at least after the first year. Just as I knew at the start that my husband will never ever travel again. He has seen the world, lived in foreign countries across Europe and has no desire to board an airplane ever again. He bears me no grudge in seeking my travel adventurers much as the OP's husband doesn't begrudge her living back in Europe for months at a time. She doesn't appear to be a stupid person and frankly, she doesn't appear to be a person who is in love with her husband.

So where is the crisis? She is unhappy, dissatisfied with her life, her situation and her husband's resistance to changing countries. File for divorce, get a custody agreement that will allow you to take the children with you during the school year and allow them holidays and summers with their father, and go on with your life where you want to live.

If she persuades him to leave the US all she is doing is opening the door to his resentment of her in the future for forcing him to abandon what he considers his happy life. She should not try to turn his head. One should never force, however gently you do it, someone to do something that they don't want to do. Besides, perhaps he is as unhappy in this marriage as she is and is secretly hoping that this will prove the catalyst that ends it.
The exact reason why I stayed silent while many on this thread reached out to the OP was due to hesitation. I and you and all the other kind souls on this site don't truly know the back story to the OP's family and marriage which makes me wonder how useful could my advice be if we aren't privy to the "whole" story to the most important people associated to this story. So I gave in even against my better judgement and suggested to the OP what I thought her husband could benefit from, which is to seek out what better priority than the family might he have. Is his job now his main priority or has it always been his top focus in life. Is his finances putting extra pressure on him to stay in this secure job which would make most reasonable among us question the logic of leaving a well paid position and take a chance on something else that might not be as profitable. I thought about all those things before I gave my input. At the end of the day once we walk down that aisle and promise to love and cherish in good times and bad they both owe each other a substantial level of loyalty.

If my wife becomes depressed because of decisions we both entered into together which describes marriage for sure, it's up to me as her husband to find a way to make things better for her. I have to try and be her fixed man. Maybe he feels that way but is up to his neck in problems that are the trees which are blocking out the forest. But again only the OP can get to the bottom of this problem. Again I wish her determination and strength.
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Old Nov 7th 2019, 10:10 am
  #55  
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Default Re: i want to return, US hubby doesn't. Crisis point.

Pannacotta, it's been over 11 months since we've heard from you - how did everything turn out in the end?

Any chance to simply take the kids for Christmas and then for the entire summer each year as a way to clear the mind and recharge the batteries for the subsequent months spent in the US?

I mean if his job really can't be moved because that field isn't very popular outside of the US, and relocating would entail him to switch fields and take a big hit in wages, then maybe it's time to plan on spending as much time outside the US in the short-term but have a serious talk about a long-term move sometime down the road. The big risk though is that no matter what is agreed to happen in say 2-4 years' time, there could always be excuses to extend that, and then extend that some more, turning the move into a never-ending story...
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Old Nov 7th 2019, 12:55 pm
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Default Re: i want to return, US hubby doesn't. Crisis point.

Originally Posted by astera View Post
Pannacotta, it's been over 11 months since we've heard from you - how did everything turn out in the end?

Any chance to simply take the kids for Christmas and then for the entire summer each year as a way to clear the mind and recharge the batteries for the subsequent months spent in the US?

I mean if his job really can't be moved because that field isn't very popular outside of the US, and relocating would entail him to switch fields and take a big hit in wages, then maybe it's time to plan on spending as much time outside the US in the short-term but have a serious talk about a long-term move sometime down the road. The big risk though is that no matter what is agreed to happen in say 2-4 years' time, there could always be excuses to extend that, and then extend that some more, turning the move into a never-ending story...
She was last active in December 2018.
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Old Nov 8th 2019, 11:26 pm
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Default Re: i want to return, US hubby doesn't. Crisis point.

My partner (ex) and I have two pre teen kids, and we split up, his choice, but it was amicable and he agreed to me moving to the UK with them, in Australia it requires he sign their Aussie passport application along with me, and that's that. For British passports they just required a signed letter by the ex, which we did. Not sure what the American procedure is for kids? We have British passports, now waiting on the kids Aussie ones, only lodged the other day.

Anyway my point is, keep it civil, makes life a lot easier
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Old Today, 9:25 am
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Default Re: i want to return, US hubby doesn't. Crisis point.

Originally Posted by petitefrancaise View Post
I'm not sure the OP needs to leave the USA - she needs to find a circle of friends that are more like her and less like her husband perhaps. Get a job? Get a different job?

Separate from her OH for a bit to see how she feels. Perhaps ask him to move out of the family home and into a nearby apartment. Being around someone who seems to care so little for what she wants has to be absolutely soul destroying. Go to marriage counselling, Talk to a lawyer. Get a lover! How European are you??? Le cinq a sept has prolonged many a marriage in france....Google second saturday divorce workshops for a start and find out information.
I so agree with you petite francaise

I also completely empathise with Pannacotta because it happened to me. at exactly the same time. When I had been ( reluctantly ) in the Netherlands with my OH's job / career for several yrs and my kids were 10 yrs and 7 yrs old. I suddenly felt the complete burden of supporting all of them in a country I did not want to be in.A country that gave me no place to be.. It ignored me in fact.From the government down to the neighbours I was deemed a necessary but somewhat superfluous adjunct to my OH. I wasn't allowed to work. For three years I didn't even speak the language, I put an enormous effort into doing so ,and then in to every kind of social work I could find,mainly for the ex-pat community. Then,as I said there came a point where I wanted to be 'me' again. To stop being the sad immigrant this life made me.My OH was sympathetic but on a rocketing career path ( he would soon be on the board of his company and go on to be CEO) I used to cry and beg him to look for jobs back in the UK. Bless him, he certainly tried. Three job offers, three failures at the last fence for bizarre reasons. One,a family run firm had the eldest son objecting to bringing in such a high flyer.Another literally went bust the day he was due to sign a contract.The third offered him the job, he signed the first part of the contract ,but the second part never arrived. A lawyer later rang him and said he 'hoped he kept his powder dry' they had apparently sold the company the day after....The gods had decided it was not to be ,our fate lay in NL.
My turning point came at a lecture given by an American re-location expert . 'At one point in your adventure' she said 'you cross a line, and then have to learn to 'bloom where you are planted' I realised that she was right. It could no longer be about 'me' anymore. It was 'us'. I had a family who needed me to be supportive and positive about the situation we were in..together. Everyone has their place in a family, if its going to work. Throwing it all away because of unrequited 'feelings' isn't a good enough reason to damage or even destroy other peoples lives.if you love them that is.
The answer lies in finding something of your homeland where you live.A club for ex-pats. Even just meeting someone for coffee etc. Starting a club yourself. Don't worry about your kids ,they will follow their own hearts .If its back to your homeland ,so be it.. If not ,its their choice. My ED has also landed in the USA.Not somewhere I would ever have thought would appeal to her.. she has been there 20 yrs now and has a daughter .. she had her moments of panic when she was born.. didn't want her speaking with an American accent etc.. Thats all faded away now as she has become involved in the greater community. It breaks my heart.but that's another story
Once you become an ex-pat you cross the line into 'third country' territory. You live there between the country you left and the country you're in. At some point you have to make the decision to step back or step forward. It happens to all of us ,your not alone. Good luck with your choice

As I now see that Pannacotta hasn't been active since last December.. This has to be a piece of general advice to others in the same boat as she is / was and I was

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Old Today, 11:36 am
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Default Re: i want to return, US hubby doesn't. Crisis point.

Originally Posted by GeniB View Post
I so agree with you petite francaise

I also completely empathise with Pannacotta because it happened to me. at exactly the same time. When I had been ( reluctantly ) in the Netherlands with my OH's job / career for several yrs and my kids were 10 yrs and 7 yrs old. I suddenly felt the complete burden of supporting all of them in a country I did not want to be in.A country that gave me no place to be.. It ignored me in fact.From the government down to the neighbours I was deemed a necessary but somewhat superfluous adjunct to my OH. I wasn't allowed to work. For three years I didn't even speak the language, I put an enormous effort into doing so ,and then in to every kind of social work I could find,mainly for the ex-pat community. Then,as I said there came a point where I wanted to be 'me' again. To stop being the sad immigrant this life made me.My OH was sympathetic but on a rocketing career path ( he would soon be on the board of his company and go on to be CEO) I used to cry and beg him to look for jobs back in the UK. Bless him, he certainly tried. Three job offers, three failures at the last fence for bizarre reasons. One,a family run firm had the eldest son objecting to bringing in such a high flyer.Another literally went bust the day he was due to sign a contract.The third offered him the job, he signed the first part of the contract ,but the second part never arrived. A lawyer later rang him and said he 'hoped he kept his powder dry' they had apparently sold the company the day after....The gods had decided it was not to be ,our fate lay in NL.
My turning point came at a lecture given by an American re-location expert . 'At one point in your adventure' she said 'you cross a line, and then have to learn to 'bloom where you are planted' I realised that she was right. It could no longer be about 'me' anymore. It was 'us'. I had a family who needed me to be supportive and positive about the situation we were in..together. Everyone has their place in a family, if its going to work. Throwing it all away because of unrequited 'feelings' isn't a good enough reason to damage or even destroy other peoples lives.if you love them that is.
The answer lies in finding something of your homeland where you live.A club for ex-pats. Even just meeting someone for coffee etc. Starting a club yourself. Don't worry about your kids ,they will follow their own hearts .If its back to your homeland ,so be it.. If not ,its their choice. My ED has also landed in the USA.Not somewhere I would ever have thought would appeal to her.. she has been there 20 yrs now and has a daughter .. she had her moments of panic when she was born.. didn't want her speaking with an American accent etc.. Thats all faded away now as she has become involved in the greater community. It breaks my heart.but that's another story
Once you become an ex-pat you cross the line into 'third country' territory. You live there between the country you left and the country you're in. At some point you have to make the decision to step back or step forward. It happens to all of us ,your not alone. Good luck with your choice

As I now see that Pannacotta hasn't been active since last December.. This has to be a piece of general advice to others in the same boat as she is / was and I was
This is such an excellent post on so many levels. I've flitted between the USA and UK for many years. Having been back in the USA for 3 years (I am originally from the US and lived in the UK for 14 years), I often fantasize about moving back to Scotland. My career has taken off in the US and so has my husband's. We make a lot of money here, own our home and have lovely weather. I am yet somehow stuck in this 3rd country (I love this btw as I've never heard it called this before) of not quite feeling at home in either place. I have to stop myself in these fantasies sometimes and remind myself of why we left Edinburgh (financial and family) and come back around. It doesn't help that the current President was elected shortly after we moved (but of course we are not alone in the hysteria of the world - hello Brexit). It has made me regretful at times. It is out of my control however and I have to focus on the good of my daily life. Having two passports and thus so many options can be crippling in terms of one's mental state - thank you for sharing this most insightful post. I like the analogy of blooming where you are planted. It is absolutely true.
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