How Long Did You Give It?

Old Jan 6th 2006, 4:51 pm
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Default Re: How Long Did You Give It?

Originally Posted by iaink
But the world has moved on. There is no chance realistically that they will grow up the same as you anyway, and although Im not sure I agree that its that much of an influence, based on your logic you want your kids to grow up to hang around on street corners with the rest of the chavs?

There are other more important influences on who your kids become, and the main one is the parents, who arent going to change nomatter where you go. Perhaps the main thing to be gained in moving back is that you will be happier and happy parents tend to raise happy kids. Sounds to me like concern for the kids future might just be is a convenient catalyst for change.

I dont care one way or the other as long as my kid(s) grow up to fulfill their potential and remain balanced, happy people, and thats not really down to the country they are raised in as far as I'm concerned, its down to our interaction with and provision for them.
I dont necessarily follow your logic. I stayed with a older British couple in OZ for 3 weeks a few years back. They had 3 grown children who were all married with kids of their own. The parents were still very British even though they had lived in OZ for over 30 years, however their kids and grandchildren were as Ozzie as they come and the kids didnt really relate to their parents and vice versa. I accept that is one example however most on the site are new immigrants so the full impact of this issue wont be known for some time.
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Old Jan 6th 2006, 5:15 pm
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Default Re: How Long Did You Give It?

I agree with NewCalgarian. Children grow up with the mindset of the country they grow up in. That's why most of us on here can't settle outside of the UK. If my kids grow up in the US then they would most likely not be able to settle outside of the US. I think the point is do we want our children to feel attached to a different country than the one we are attached to? Could cause a lot of upset in the future if it comes to the family being in separate countries. Of course, when it comes to marriages like mine where each spouse is a different nationality it gets messier, but that's not the point I'm trying to make.

Of course we don't want our children to hang out with chavs on street corners and will do our best to bring them up in such a way that they don't go down that route. However, even our best efforts can't change the affiliation they will feel to the country they grew up in and everything that is familiar to them, and the overall mindset of the country.

I hope that makes some sort of sense.
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Old Jan 6th 2006, 5:34 pm
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Default Re: How Long Did You Give It?

[QUOTE=iaink]But the world has moved on. There is no chance realistically that they will grow up the same as you anyway, and although Im not sure I agree that its that much of an influence, based on your logic you want your kids to grow up to hang around on street corners with the rest of the chavs?


I don't expect my children to be exactly like me or my wife, in fact there are certain traits I would rather they didn't inherit. I would merely like to instill some of my outlook, values in life and my "British" sense of humour etc. I didn't ever "hang around on street corners with the rest of the chavs" as you put it, and hope that my children won't either. Why do you think that there are any less Chavs in Canada than England - there aren't. Where ever you get people, you will find problems and people of all social standings and behaviours. I have come across loads of "low grade" people in Canada - chavs, red necks, trailer trash - it's all the same. Coming to Canada to get away from "chavs" is a course of action doomed to end in disappointment. Of course there are areas here where people are generally nicer, but this is true of England as well.

Yes the world does move on, but in my opinion it hasn't "moved on" any more in Canada than it has in the UK.

My Aunt was born in England and moved to Alberta in 1970, is a thoroughly decent person and has raised two children with her husband. Having socialised with my cousins and other Canadians (who are all regular, nice people), I have become extremely glad that I was brought up in England and have a British outlook on life. I have also reached the conclusion that I don't want my kids to grow up as Canadians and become like my cousins and their friends. I find it really difficult to put into words what turns me off being Canadian, but I suppose it is partly due to the insular, North American outlook most of the people here seem to have - the ones I have met anyway. Culture is also a biggie. As a kid I went to many Museums and Art Galleries in England and throughout Europe with my parents. I am very grateful for this, as I think it has instilled in me cultural knowledge and values that I would not have developed in Canada. Calgary has the Glenbow Museum and Fort Calgary, but thats generally it. Access to collections comparable to those in Europe just isn't here. It is not people's fault they just don't have access to this stuff. I want my children to be exposed to it and it is something I intend to do with them. Of course they may not be interested and could even grow up to move to Canada or elsewhere themselves. They will however have been raised in England and hopefully will have the more cosmopolitan outlook that my British family and friends have (of course not everybody in the UK is like that).
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Old Jan 6th 2006, 6:04 pm
  #34  
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Default Re: How Long Did You Give It?

Originally Posted by NewCalgarian
(of course not everybody in the UK is like that).
And of course not everyone in canada is like that either. Many brits I know are increadibly small minded too. Its ludicrous to believe your kids will grow up devoid of UK influence, they may speak with a different accent, but the values you instill in them are the ones that will stick. I hope when you have kids you will realise what a huge influence you will have regarding things like that sense of humour...it shows at an amazingly early age!

Everything else, for example if they watch Hockey not soccer, is irrelevent. And FWIW as far as I am concerned Canada is vastly less rude, antisocial and chavy than the UK, my bit anyway. Sure there is poverty and a welfare culture in places, but its not expressed nearly as antisocially in most places...gang on gang violence excepted.

Its nonsense to make generalisations about how canadians behave and how brits behave and what is important to each group as every case has different people involved and we are all different. I guess living out west you dont have quick access to places like NY, which has galleries and museums that would make Europes fines blush at their inadequacy. History here is different, but there is plenty of it if you are open to it. Canada is so inward looking that the only thing its military seems to do is foreign aid and peacekeeping, and with the % of immigrants that make up the population I have no idea where you get the idea from that there is no interest in places outside the country.

Apparantly I for one didnt grow up with the mindset of the country I grew up in, I fit in better here than the UK. I'm separated from my parents and siblings, but we get by.

I think you are unhappy in Canada, and that is the root cause of these feelings. Likewise, I'm happy here, and happy for my kids to grow up here. Simple as that I suspect.

Last edited by iaink; Jan 6th 2006 at 6:15 pm.
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Old Jan 6th 2006, 6:44 pm
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Default Re: How Long Did You Give It?

Originally Posted by BigDavyG
Will do.
Just be careful when you go home - it may completely flip you out when you have to come back so best not to make any decisions in the heat of the moment.
I'm just trying to keep busy right now and then I can sort things out later on.

By the way, I only got back yesterday :scared:
I know, that's what I'm afraid of. I'm starting to talk myself into wanting to go back home instead of trying to make it work here.

How do you feel now you've been back home? I hear stories of people being so homesick, but when the arrive back in the UK they wonder what the heck they were thinking!
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Old Jan 6th 2006, 6:46 pm
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Default Re: How Long Did You Give It?

Originally Posted by NewCalgarian
Mainly because like most people, we would like our children to be a reflection of ourselves and our values etc (if only a little bit). The Canadians I have met have absolutely nothing in common with me in terms of approach to life, sense of humour, awareness of the world at large, political and other values. I can't bare the thought of our children becoming like this. I don't mean to be offensive really, I'm sure many Canadians don't want their kids to be English - I suppose it is because I have been shaped by my homeland.
Ah. I wanted mine to be ashamed of me. I wanted them to have risen socially to the point that I became their dirty secret. I wanted them to be richer, more athletic and better educated than I am. They'd inevitably be better looking. Canada suits as these are qualities cultivated here. Breeding, the one unalterable feature of a person, is not an issue in the colonies.
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Old Jan 6th 2006, 6:55 pm
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Default Re: How Long Did You Give It?

Originally Posted by Always21
Children grow up with the mindset of the country they grow up in. That's why most of us on here can't settle outside of the UK. If my kids grow up in the US then they would most likely not be able to settle outside of the US. I think the point is do we want our children to feel attached to a different country than the one we are attached to?
I don't think this holds at all. I write as a rootless cosmopolitan. Two of my children will soon graduate from Canadian universities. One intends to work in Switzerland, one intends to take a masters in the US. I don't feel attached to Canada, nor to the UK, and they, being polyglot, are less attached to anywhere than I am. We see not belonging to somewhere as the opportunity to live anywhere.
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Old Jan 6th 2006, 8:29 pm
  #38  
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Default Re: How Long Did You Give It?

Originally Posted by JoD
I hear stories of people being so homesick, but when the arrive back in the UK they wonder what the heck they were thinking!
I suffer from bouts of homesickness but after walking round Mersey Square shopping precinct in August I don't think I'll be suffering with it for a while.
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Old Jan 7th 2006, 1:35 am
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Default Re: How Long Did You Give It?

Originally Posted by iaink
Its ludicrous to believe your kids will grow up devoid of UK influence
My Aunt and Uncle were both born and raised in the UK and have English personalities. Both my cousins (born and raised in Calgary) have absolutely no UK related traits whatsoever.

Originally Posted by iaink
Its nonsense to make generalisations about how canadians behave and how brits behave
Hey, I can only go by what I have seen. It is also nonsense to suggest that people of a particular country don't have very many similar patterns of behaviour, beliefs, interests etc - these people are shaped by the country were they live and by the people around them.

Originally Posted by iaink
I guess living out west you dont have quick access to places like NY, which has galleries and museums that would make Europes fines blush at their inadequacy. History here is different, but there is plenty of it if you are open to it.
I have met many people from the east (moved to Calgary for jobs) who were unable to afford to travel to NY (due to the high cost of air travel in N America) even when they did live closer to it. Museums are only of use if they are accessible. History is different in Canada and in my opinion much less interesting and varied than Europe's.

Originally Posted by iaink
I have no idea where you get the idea from that there is no interest in places outside the country.
Again, I can only form judgements based on the people I have met in Canada and there have been many. Generally, folks I know here have much less knowledge "the world outside Canada" and less idea of what is going on in international current affairs, than my friends and relations back home.

Originally Posted by iaink
[COLOR=DarkSlateBlue]I think you are unhappy in Canada, and that is the root cause of these feelings. Likewise, I'm happy here, and happy for my kids to grow up here.
Of course I'm unhappy with Canada. There are reasons (cultural, social and practical) why I am unhappy as I have already detailed. Would you want to bring up children in a place and society with which you were not happy?

As for saying that you think Canada is far less "chavvy" than the UK - you are entitled to your opinion but I wholeheartedly disagree.
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Old Jan 7th 2006, 1:59 am
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Default Re: How Long Did You Give It?

Originally Posted by NewCalgarian
I have met many people from the east (moved to Calgary for jobs) who were unable to afford to travel to NY (due to the high cost of air travel in N America) even when they did live closer to it.
I think you'll find that the reason Canadians don't go to museums in NYC is not money but that they're shit scared of America. In the years I lived with a Newfie I met so many Canadians who thought they'd die if they went so far as Buffalo (ok, they do have a point in regards to Buffalo). It's a terrible waste, America in general and NYC in particular, has wonderous cultural resources, as well as the tackiest buildings in the world. It's all there for the price of a bus ticket.
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Old Jan 7th 2006, 2:40 am
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Default Re: How Long Did You Give It?

Originally Posted by JoD
Hi. I emigrated to Canada with my husband and daughter in June last year and have been talking lately about the possibility of going back home to the UK. I would like to give it another 18 months to say that we really gave it a good try, but am feeling very homesick and miss family so much.

How long did any of you guys give it before you seriously thought about going back to the UK?
JoD hi, this is a very unsettling situation to be in - i feel for you. Try to listen to your gut reaction, its normally right x
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Old Jan 7th 2006, 3:13 am
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Default Re: How Long Did You Give It?

Originally Posted by dbd33
I think you'll find that the reason Canadians don't go to museums in NYC is not money but that they're shit scared of America. In the years I lived with a Newfie I met so many Canadians who thought they'd die if they went so far as Buffalo (ok, they do have a point in regards to Buffalo). It's a terrible waste, America in general and NYC in particular, has wonderous cultural resources, as well as the tackiest buildings in the world. It's all there for the price of a bus ticket.
Most of the Canadians I know are very often talking about saving up to go to America, they seem to have an obsession with spending time in Las Vegas.
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Old Jan 7th 2006, 3:51 pm
  #43  
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Default Re: How Long Did You Give It?

Originally Posted by NewCalgarian

As for saying that you think Canada is far less "chavvy" than the UK - you are entitled to your opinion but I wholeheartedly disagree.
IMHO it's much less "chavvy" in the areas of Calgary/Canada that I frequent.

As for children, try telling ours (who started their lives in the UK) that they have to go back and live in the UK and they'd run away and hide.

They enjoy life so much more here, the facilties and opportunities are great.

Both children are into sports and the coaching, facilties and organisation is fantastic. If a child has the ability here, there is coaching right up to Olympic level.

They also do art and music and again the infrastructure is there for them to do this.

As for education, there's French Immersion and the three IB programs.

They'll always have their UK passports so I imagine they'll do the whole Europe thing when they get older.

Before we left the UK we did trips around Europe as well as visits to museums etc in London. They are bit museumed out right now and prefer skiing

We'll probably do european holiday for a month next year, and every few years.

Had we not been blessed with children we'd still be living in Notting Hill. But having children changes things, and in our opinion (and most importantly our children's) living here offers them so much more.
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Old Jan 7th 2006, 4:14 pm
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Default Re: How Long Did You Give It?

Originally Posted by CalgaryBlade
IMHO it's much less "chavvy" in the areas of Calgary/Canada that I frequent.

As for children, try telling ours (who started their lives in the UK) that they have to go back and live in the UK and they'd run away and hide.

They enjoy life so much more here, the facilties and opportunities are great.

Both children are into sports and the coaching, facilties and organisation is fantastic. If a child has the ability here, there is coaching right up to Olympic level.

They also do art and music and again the infrastructure is there for them to do this.

As for education, there's French Immersion and the three IB programs.

They'll always have their UK passports so I imagine they'll do the whole Europe thing when they get older.

Before we left the UK we did trips around Europe as well as visits to museums etc in London. They are bit museumed out right now and prefer skiing

We'll probably do european holiday for a month next year, and every few years.

Had we not been blessed with children we'd still be living in Notting Hill. But having children changes things, and in our opinion (and most importantly our children's) living here offers them so much more.

In my opinion the factors with which you are comparing Canada & the UK depend very much on where you come from in England. Obviously London is manic and polluted, over crowded etc - I couldn't live there. But the area I came from and am going back to (Derbyshire) just isn't like that. For me Calgary has been a case of "stepping up two gears" and with the rest of the factors I have discussed, ultimately does not agree with me.

As a kid I had great access to sport, music (I played Tenor Horn) and Arts - these things are available in England - it is one of the world's richest countries after all. Of course you can't hit the ski slopes though .

I'm sure that kids do change you, but they will NEVER change my opinion of Calgary.
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Old Jan 7th 2006, 4:23 pm
  #45  
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Default Re: How Long Did You Give It?

Originally Posted by chance to be
JoD hi, this is a very unsettling situation to be in - i feel for you. Try to listen to your gut reaction, its normally right x
Thanks. I just don't know what to do - I don't want to make a decision to go back home and then regret it. If only I had a crystal ball!!!!
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