How do you decide?
 

Hi fellow ExPats,

I’m struggling, well we are struggling, with whether we should move to the UK. I’m a British citizen, my wife is a US citizen and we have young kids. When I first moved to the US 20 years ago it felt like a new sort of paradise. Over the years I feel like things have slowly declined as a country. I don’t want to make it political but I’m 100% against the current administration. Gun crime seems to have exploded, and I feel like it’s not just access to guns but a mentality of apathy and hate bubbling to the surface. Am I just being over dramatic? I see these horrific school shootings. Nothing changes. Other countries have a mass shooting and those in charge say no more guns and their citizens are like “fair enough” and it’s dealt with. There are millions upon millions of guns in the US- how will that change even if the law changes? Would ppl turn them in?

I live in a pretty nice area, my family come over and say it’s “dead posh” I grew up dirt poor in the Uk. Here My wife can stay home with the kids. It felt untouchable. Then shootings started around our area, just recently one in our neighbourhood. Then a friend was shot and killed protecting his family.
I have a good job that pays well and job security. But is that enough/worth it?

Then I just got a note saying my child’s (6yr old) school will start performing intruder/shooter drills. He worries enough about typical stuff but this is a whole other level. I know in a way it’s good they prepare but do I want to live in a place where he has to prepare?

Then I think of home, no legal guns, free healthcare, more socially conscious, a better place to raise a child, maybe?
But I know we won’t have the same lifestyle, I won’t get the equivalent pay, but can we still have an ok life? I hate to move and regret it but I hate to stay and regret it. I may be pessimistic but things seem to be going from bad to worse here.

So how does one decide?
What do we do with all of our stuff if we move?
Do you think Brexit will be an economical concern?
If I had to work in London, live outside, how much household income would we need roughly to live (renting at first)?
I don’t know where to start. I have a pro/con list going.

There’s so much going through my head so any advice, info, or a good clip round the ear would be much appreciated.

Ta very much

Re: How do you decide?
 

Hi NODB,
The UK can be really expensive compared to the US especially in London and the South East.
My DD lives in London near Wimbledon in a typical 100+ year-old terraced house with almost no front yard and a small back yard - no garage and only on-street parking.
She has 5 bedrooms and the rental for her house would be £3000+ per month.
The daily commute into central London is a nightmare with packed buses; trains and underground.
The commute from outside London is also bad and very expensive. People commute from 60 - 100 miles away.
The South-East is very overcrowded with lots of pressure on services like schools; hospitals and housing.
London is arguably the most cosmopolitan city in the world and it is sometimes difficult to hear another British accent on the tube.
Some areas have large immigrant populations - look up the ethnic populations in Ealing for example.
Every country has its problems and they seem to be worse than before.
HTH

Re: How do you decide?
 

Hi,
No one can answer your questions except you as I'm sure you're aware. We are in a slightly similar position in that we are moving to France from UK and are thinking of many of the things you are. One thing I try to do for my own sanity is divide the facts and the emotions and try to think of them separately. One good example would be crime and the perception of crime. They may align from the same initial research, but a closer look will invariably show where they differ. I assume that, horrible though the recent killings are, the chance of your kids being murdered at school or any of you in daily life is still statistically remote. That doesn't lessen the very idea of living in a society obsessed with guns, but there you have the head versus the heart argument.
On purely practical issues of living in UK the following things spring to mind from my own experiences.
Commuting. This is generally a nightmare in UK unless you live close to where you work. The rail system is a national disgrace and won't be fixed any time soon. Parts of London are in almost permanent gridlock. This is not based on my political views, just a reflection on the infrastructure. Commuting into London is probably one of the worst commutes in the country. I tried it from Kent and ended up setting up my own workshop. If you want to work in London, but can't afford to live there I would seriously think of finding work in a more user friendly city.
What to store and what to send home. We have lived abroad on and off since the nineties and have been storing stuff at a cheap rate in a friend's barn. We have now realised we have spent more in storage, even at a cheap rate, than the furniture is worth. Obviously the personal belongings are a different matter and we will keep them in my inlaw's attic until we buy a house in France. But all our furniture is being sold with the house. It's a bit of a cliche, but the expression 'do you own it or does it own you?' is something worth thinking about when it comes to extremely costly storage.
Without this thread degenerating into a Brexit slanging match, I can't believe that the UK economy isn't going to be negatively impacted, at least in the short term, from the referendum. Interest rates are certainly going to go up and must be factored into your budgeting.
That's probably enough of a ramble for now. Hopefully others will join in and give advice, which you a free to take on or ignore as appropriate.
Good luck with it all.

Re: How do you decide?
 

Yes, of course you can have a good life back in the UK, but only you and your wife can decide what are the most important things to your family (eg size of house, garden, schooling, job availability in your profession).

You mention London - is that because of family or job reasons? I'm a bit biased, but I think quality of life is better in many ways outside London & South East - housing is certainly more affordable, and can more than offset lower salaries such that you end up with more disposable income.

Would it be possible for you and your family to take a decent length holiday back in in the UK, staying in house or flat (eg via AirBnB) in your preferred area and living like "normal" to get a feel like what life would be like for you? Doing it may help you more than thinking about it, especially for your wife and child if they are not very familiar with the practicalities of life in the UK.

Re: How do you decide?
 

Despite my homesickness I am glad that we have stayed in the USA until retirement. There are 2 reasons for this. Firstly, our boys had a stable upbringing in one place. Secondly, I have really enjoyed my time in the workforce here. I have always felt respected, appreciated and have been well-compensated.

However, if 23 years ago we had been told that our 6 year old was going to start intruder/shooter drills I would have said to my DH “It’s time for us to return to Scotland .”

Re: How do you decide?
 

I also recognize that we are incredibly fortunate to be in this position where we can decide between countries.

Re: How do you decide?
 

Before making any decision on whether moving back to the UK or not, the OP should look into getting British passport for his kids. He should also renew his own British passport if it has expired. This will make a move back to the UK a lot easier. Please note that British passport application fees will go up on the 27 March 2018.

Re: How do you decide?
 

Thank you all for your responses. It’s great to get different opinions.

I would be considered a Trade Credit Underwriter and most of the jobs I come across are in London. I would prefer not to work in London. My family are largely in the Oxford area. I would work anywhere really. Like one poster said they’ve been very fortunate to live and work in the USA. I don’t completely disagree. I’m in a very fortunate industry that has treated me well and will likely treat me well for the foreseeable future. And I wonder if the poster would agree the US is not the same country he/she first came to. But again- same could be said for the UK.

We went back to the UK about 10 months ago and it was hard for all of us to leave. There’s just a sense of community that I have never felt in the US. Obviously everyone’s experience is different.

I understand ultimately the decision is one of ours and ours alone. And the chances of probability of my child being involved in a school shooting is remote- my thought is not just specific to the chances of x happening but more of the changing climate and the increased brutality and the reason that my child has to do shooter drills. Or that teachers are now receiving triage packages. (Although when looking at percentages your 5.5 times more likely to be murdered in the US).

I guess my over arching question is the US seems to be heading IMO in a certain direction. Part of me says don’t wait until it’s too late and the other part says we won’t have the same quality of living.

It’s hard to put my thoughts together so I was just looking for advice. Appreciate the advice on passports. Mine was just renewed and we are in the process for our kids.

Thanks again. Sorry if I’m not concise in what I’m seeking answers to and just rambling.

Re: How do you decide?
 

I definitely think the climate has changed since we came here in 1985 in our 20s. However I no longer know if that is perception or reality. There is something so raw about the school incidents that rational thought gets forgotten. My DH is far more concerned about muggings and knife attacks in the UK and has had several friends severely beaten up in the UK prior to us moving over here.

Our 3 sons are glad we raised them here, are very proud to be American citizens and our son currently residing in Scotland misses Arizona every day.

Re: How do you decide?
 

Hi Delboy


Pretty much every word you wrote is going through my head these days too. After the Newtown massacre I thought I couldn't stay here in the US anymore, but inertia meant I did stay, and with two little kids now as well its even more difficult contemplating MBTTUK. To say that trump is a pathetic excuse for a human being is understating it, but gives you an idea of my perception of him as well as his republican colleagues. If I could click my heels and wake up back in the UK with a decent job and somewhere to live, that would be great, but the ability to get a job from 6000 miles away, and the difficulty of getting a spouse visa for my wife, mean that making the move just makes my head hurt.

I have no idea of whether we would be happier, richer, healthier etc in the UK - that would be a gamble. Things generally are pretty good for us here, and I earn just enough for my wife to stay home with the kids. I don't think I could do that in the UK as I'd probably be on about £35000 there as opposed to about £55000 here. But it does seem like food shopping and utilities are cheaper there when we have been in the UK for visits. Having 5 weeks paid leave would be nice too, and bizarrely would mean we could spend more time on holiday in the US than we can now (cost of holiday, aside)! Probably the biggest challenge for us if we made it back there would be my wife "getting" the British sense of humour, (black humour and sarcasm, or both) that she often just doesn't get when it exits my mouth. I am from the south east (Dover) so it would be nice to be near family, but it seems that on the salary that I anticipate, it would be difficult to get by with my wife staying home, so maybe we should consider a different part of the UK. She was a teacher here - no idea if she would be able to get a job teaching in the UK.

I don't think there are any answers for those of us thinking of making the move back. I've been in the US about 20 years too. But, yeah, the thought of my kids not having to do active shooter drills, and stay a bit more innocent for a while, would be a great bonus. Let us know if you make a decision. I am picking the brains of some former colleagues back in the UK about my profession there, and will try and make a decision in the next few months.

Re: How do you decide?
 

We have 2 workmen in our condo all day so I’m spending way more time than is probably good for me on this forum.

Anyway, I’ve been doing some research and there are schools in the UK that are currently doing lockdown exercises with their students. Also, what about air raid drills during WW2? I think the world has always been a mixture of scary and wonderful. However, between the MSM and social media it has enhanced our fears.

There are no easy answers.

Re: How do you decide?
 

I don’t want to have this turn into a gun debate. But when I brought up the intruder lockdown implementation in our local school, it was to me a wake up call. The fears I have are ones born out of guns, and the political climate, healthcare. It just seems there’s less and less concern for people’s well being and safety from those whom are supposed to represent us. My worry is with 265MM guns out there how can it change.

The UK has some of the toughest gun laws born out of tragedy:

Michael Ryan's massacre of 16 people in Hungerford in 1987 led to the banning of all modern semi-automatic rifles, the range of guns that can be fired rapidly without needing to be reloaded.

Nine years later, Thomas Hamilton killed 16 schoolchildren and their teacher when he opened fire at a school in Dunblane. Parliament banned all handguns and there is now a mandatory five-year jail sentence for possession.

Do you see anything even equatable happening in the US? And that’s what worries me, it’s like oh another school shooting let’s make rules about how to prepare for an active shooter, let’s give teachers guns- but you’re just putting plasters on gun shot wounds.

You mention WWII and I get your point but didn’t record numbers flee to the UK for safety during that time?

Sorry I went on a little rant. I just hate the feeling of being put in this position where I feel I have to decide but I don’t know how to decide and I don’t think anyone can know 100% what is best.

Re: How do you decide?
 

From what I hear crime in the UK has gone crazy over the last 20 years as well.
From gangs coming in from Eastern Europe to kids carrying knives.
Depends where in the UK you are going to live.
Nowhere in the first world is the same as 20 years ago now.

Re: How do you decide?
 

where did you “hear” that? Overall crime is going down in the U.K.

Re: How do you decide?
 

Indeed and there seems to be a lot of false information out there. Of course there always was crime and there always will be crime, but you can also avoid it. As you say, in many areas it's going down.


I don't know if London would be my first choice, but people all over the world face the same challenges with money, commutes and jobs. No job in the US is safe/guaranteed and it's the same in the UK. There are many nice areas in the UK, so it's personal choice.




We all have choices and each case is different. I live in Ireland and you'd also have people in Dublin feeling unsafe, because of gang shootings, but I wouldn't judge the whole country. Where we live, I don't have to lock the car and I feel very safe. After going to Germany recently, I felt a lot less safe there. But that often has to do with the city or location, rather than the country.

Re: How do you decide?
 

Overall crime in the UK is down and that has been the trend for many years. Specific types of crime in certain areas is up, knife crime relating to gang or turf warfare, but only after a long period of decline. If you left the UK a couple of decades ago then the chances are that crime is a lot less now than it was then. Parts of London that were no-go areas 15 or 20 years ago (Hackney's 'Murder Mile' springs to mind) are now full of hipsters and coffee shops. What has changed is the reporting of it - 24 hour rolling news, social media, the Internet in general - which skewers people's impressions.

Re: How do you decide?
 

Good point and sometimes it's probably just better to ignore social media.
If you think about it, there's also a lot more types of crime today. Back in the day, I remember kids playing with toxic toys made in Taiwan. Nobody was bothered at the time, but now it's a lot more controlled and would be considered a serious crime.

Re: How do you decide?
 

Short memories as well. There was a joyriding epidemic when I was a child; never hear of that now. Ditto for football hooliganism, graffiti, etc.. Still around but greatly reduced in comparison.

Re: How do you decide?
 

Not to take this off track but it may be helpful to others in my position. My job involves analytics and research and it tends to go with my nature as well. Social media has a way of warping facts (or making them up). Now this is to do with US vs UK. Sorry if it’s too much info. But since voicing our potential decision we have been “told” about how bad terroism is or how much more violent the UK is- specifically There is a meme circulating stating that in the UK there are 2,034 violent crimes per 100,000 people, whereas the US has 466 violent crimes per 100,000 people. This on the surface appears to show that the UK is over 4 times more violent than the US. But this statement is way out of context because you are literally comparing apples to oranges.

Here's why:

The US/ FBI definition of a "violent crime" is one of four specific offenses: murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault.

Whereas the British definition includes all “crimes against the person,” including simple assaults, (which can just be one person pushing another person) all robberies, and all “sexual offenses,” as opposed to the FBI, which only counts aggravated assaults and “forcible rapes.” And to be clear about half of all violent crimes (41% in 2017) in the UK don't result in any injury.

Then there was a recent article on the “huge” rise in knife crime and murder. Which on the heels of the US school shooting led so many people on social media say things like “see you ban guns and people still kill people and the US has 5 times the population”. I believe this to be more regurgitation of uninformed and exaggerated information. So me being me, I researched. Below are stats on murders. Not accidental, not involuntary manslaughter etc.

Population:
US population is 323 million
UK population 65.6 million
So it's inevitable the US would have more murders per year due to population differences.

US had 17,250 murders
UK had 629 murders

But when you divide murder by population:
US had 1 murder per 18,730 ppl
UK had 1 murder per 104,292 ppl

So the US has 4.9 times the population of the UK. And the US has 27.4 times more murders than the UK. So the US murder rate is 5.5 times the UK murder rate.

I understand there are violent crimes everywhere. I’m not suggesting that there is some paradise out there where safety is guaranteed.

Again, I appreciate everyone’s input and the input about European gang violence did spur me to research and it’s not totally without merit, but I don’t think it suggest a large overall increase in UK violent crime.

Re: How do you decide?
 

Good post. Something that is also often left out is the context in which these crimes happen, particularly murder. In 2012 the murder rate in Louisiana was 10.8 per 100,000 inhabitants. In New Hampshire it was 1.1. You were therefore ten times more likely to be murdered in LA compared to NH. Are Louisianans inherently ten times more homicidal than Granite Staters? Possibly but probably not. It's probably not a coincidence that LA also has one of the lowest average incomes in the US per state whereas NH has the highest.

Re: How do you decide?
 

NiceOneDelBoy
And there was me suggesting in my earlier post not to confuse crime with the perception of crime. You are clearly way ahead of me. Good luck with the decision making.

Re: How do you decide?
 

This is exactly what’s going through our minds as well. We live in a nice suburb of a very large US city. It’s really a bubble as the locals like to describe it. Safe, leafy neighborhoods, upscale houses, gentrified, and very little diversity.

We used to go into the city to explore and enjoy the culture, ethnic diversity, and cosmopolitan life. Not so much anymore. Guns, shootings, and all kinds of crime almost every day there. So now we ask, why should we feel like prisoners in our safe bubble? The abhorrent “gated communities” which are sprouting up here, are a symptom of this problem. Is such isolation and separation from community the answer?

We visited Toronto many times recently and felt completely safe wandering the entire city. Everyone seemed confident and safe there yet with all the qualities of our large city. How can this be? The UK I’m sure is mostly similar. We think it comes down to the proliferation of guns and desperate inequalities here. We don’t see the situation improving any time soon.

So I guess the analysis comes down to whether to lead a comfortable material life in a bubble without any sense of community with the rest of the larger metropolis and country. Or live a more modest UK/European life but feeling safer, have a sense of community, and able to share with the broader culture and society.

As we just retired, probably the latter with a move back in order (as difficult as that is to do). So I completely understand the original point and concerns.

Re: How do you decide?
 

I agree, that was a good post.

We lived in Baton Rouge, Louisiana for 15 years and it was always in the FBI's top 30 list of highest murder rate cities, and did we feel threatened? You bet we did but you get to learn to live with it.

We were very well paid and lived in an expensive neighborhood but the violence is never far away. During our time there this is what we experienced first hand.

1. I came home from work one evening in the dark, and outside our house was a police car with flashing blue lights, parked behind another car with no lights on. I first noticed my 8 year old son standing inside the drapes of the house looking out, then I saw the cop who had 2 men spread-eagled on our neighbor's lawn. He had his foot on the back of one, and his gun at the base of the neck of the other. I went into the house and shortly afterwards more police cars arrived and the men were cuffed and arrested, and the car driven off.

2. A good friend and neighbor had her brother and his daughter murdered. The teenage daughter had broken up with her boyfriend who came around armed with a handgun and shot dead both the girl and her father.

3. One Saturday morning a neighbor from opposite us knocked on our door asking if he could use our phone to call the police. He had returned from the store to find a window broken at the back and the kitchen door standing open. He didn't know if the thieves were still in the house but was afraid to find out as he was pretty sure they would be armed as he kept guns in the house (and they were easily accessible).

4. My wife walked to the pediatrician's office one day with our son and noticed a helicopter flying overhead. The doctor's office was locked but they saw her from inside, opened the door and whipped her and my son into the building. Someone had had an altercation at a car dealership nearby, left and returned with a gun where he had shot dead the salesman and then escaped on foot over the back fence, across some wooded area and a stream and was last seen entering our sub-division

5. A long time colleague at work, in the office next to me, had a 17 year old son who went to a fireworks display on the Mississippi with a 16 year old female cousin. They were stood on the levi looking out at the display from barges in the river when 2 youths well back from the levi got into an argument, drew their guns and started shooting at one another. They missed each other but one bullet hit my friend's niece in the lower back severing her spine and other entered the back of my friend's head and exited through an eye socket. The girl was paralyzed from the waist down and the boy survived but with massive brain damage. That was 2 years before I retired and moved to SE Texas and when I left he was in the process of getting his house modified in order for his disabled son to come home.

6. In 2016 here in England we watched the live footage in Baton Rouge from the shooting of police officers right by our old sub-division. It was surreal to watch our old street cordoned off with police everywhere. We talked with friends who were at church at the time and in the middle of the service they heard shooting and were ushered out into a another building where they sheltered until the incident was over and the gunman shot dead.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_s...olice_officers


Anecdotal evidence I know but I personally do feel much safer back here.

Re: How do you decide?
 

For me, it's not so much the fear of violence here in the US. We live in a relatively peaceful small city in a somewhat progressive state (overall). It's not even so much the individual episodes of mass violence and massacres. The Newtown massacre for example was abhorrent, but I was almost disgusted more by the response of so many Americans to go out and buy more guns because they thought Obama would take away their right to own a semi-automatic weapon. The complete lack of action by the republican congress was reprehensible and continues to be so. So do I want to live in nation like that, with that kind of mindset so pervasive in the rest of my fellow citizens? After a couple of massacres in the UK, the population demanded that something was done and the UK government responded. Sanity prevailed in the UK, but so many people here see the second amendment as more like a commandment (thou shalt own as many guns as you can). The dead of Newtown, Las Vegas, Parkland etc are just viewed as collateral damage for retaining the second amendment and accepting its current legal interpretation.


Same story with trump being elected. I don't blame trump for being trump, but do I really want to live in a country where so many people would vote for someone like that? Do I want to be working and be surrounded by people with such a distorted sense of what a presidents (or even a human being) sensibilities should be? I know politicians in the Uk have their shortcomings too, and I don't see UK politics open to the back handed bribery of lobbyists like is so clear here in the US, but I would take the relative liberalness of a conservative government in the UK over a democratic congress and president in the US anyday. let alone a republican one.


I think I am convincing myself to make that move! Could do with a job in the UK though!

Re: How do you decide?
 

Maybe the Isle of Man might have a job for you. Of course you have to like smaller islands, but it seems safe enough and reminds me of the Channel Islands 30 years ago;).

Re: How do you decide?
 

I've been to Jersey when I was a kid, but not the IOM. Looks like there are jobs in my profession in the mainland UK, so that's not an issue, its more whether my US experience would be seen as being valuable to an employer in the UK, and whether the employer would be willing to hire someone from 6000 miles away AND wait a few months while the spouse visa gets processed.

Re: How do you decide?
 

It's been something else I've been reviewing and it depends on a bunch of variables. Although recently the unemployment rate rose in the UK- possibly coming off the holiday season, it's still in the 4% range. However, it's going to depend on your specific industry. Does your experience in the US have some intrinsic value that can't be had in the UK? I think experience from the US to the UK should translate well. I would position it more as a positive of brining what you learned outside of the UK and how that can be an asset.

In terms of spouse visa is it correct that the spouse has to apply outside of the UK and must wait until the visa is approve prior to being able to enter the UK? Up to 6 months. Is this tied to the UK resident showing sufficient income from a job to meet the financial requirement and can this time period be waived by meeting the savings requirement of $62k?

Along those lines: can a 401K be used to meet the financial savings requirement?

Thanks for all of your help. Based on what I've learned and read and advice here along with a lot of soul searching I think we are going to move forward with trying to move. Decision made now the logistics.

Re: How do you decide?
 

Hi, I am in a similar prostion too but in OZ. 30yrs later, two young children, single Mum and a good paying job in Sydney. Sydney has changed a lot over the last 10yrs now. The average cost of a home here is AUD$1.8mil in the area I live (AUD$1.1mio in Sydney) a one bedder pretty much anywhere in Sydney is now $650k+. I only share half the ownership of my home. Sydney Is not the place we all think it is now and it seems to have lost its identity, it’s way, it personality. Maybe I am being a little harsh but I am also looking long term for my own retirement. I lost my Mum in Jan 2017 and now my father who is in good health at 84 lives on his own in Berkshire. My brother has his own life in East Sussex and sees little of him.

I am grappling with ‘do I move back’. Your words are as mine. Crime is everywhere, every country is different. 30yrs is a long time and more than half my life! For me it’s about

- what if I love back and I have made a big mistake? Do I come back and see if I can get a similar paying job?
- should I go back before my children go into Yr 9? (They have just started Yr7)
- how will I feel once my father dies? Is the pull there because of him?
- what if the cost of the move is a large financial error when I am doing ok financially here?
- At 53 and single with 2 dependents how easy will it be to find longevity of another job? I am a National Account Mgr in FMCG.
- living in the Home Counties would be best for Dad and for potential work, but so expensive. The rent is very scary.

I miss the UK more and more. I have two friends moving back this week (one family back to Ireland) and one back to England. The latter was one of my bridesmaids and a big knock for me as she is moving back after 28yrs. She is going through a site called Trusted Housesitters. She is doing stints in homes and buying a car, leaving her place here in the trust of a close friend who will move in. This maybe be an option for you. Her difference is she is an HR consultant so can work anywhere at anytime.

It’s good to get lots of thoughts and ideas from everyone. It’s not an easy decision. I have no clue what to do.

Re: How do you decide?
 

I returned back to the UK in 2010 after many years living overseas in Aus and since our return I/we personally have not encountered any crime nor witnessed any, I feel safe walking around in the Cities near by and also on long country walks on my own and that's what counts.

Re: How do you decide?
 

Depends where you live.

Re: How do you decide?
 

Not quite the same, but there are children dying in the UK also.

https://news.sky.com/story/three-tee...ondon-11271222

Re: How do you decide?
 

Drugs, knives, violence as well as guns is killing people.
Society has gone mad everywhere.
A lot depends on your location.

Re: How do you decide?
 

Just to add the direct correlation between guns awash in US and high murder rate. Totally misinterpreting 2nd amendment intention. UK just a fraction in comparison.

Re: How do you decide?
 

Think it’s getting a bit off track and likely that’s my own doing. I understand people, children are killed everywhere and you can find examples everyday. My issue is more of a larger systemic shift I’ve noticed in all areas. Maybe it’s a worldwide shift but it seems to be at a much much more accelerated rate here.

My question was how do you make such a big decision. I’ve researched and learned I can get a decent job, it will be less money ultimately but more security. By security I don’t just mean in terms of violence. I appreciate all of the input and advice in helping make this decision- now it’s time to get my rear end in gear and turn words into action.

After a lot of soul searching what it ultimately came down to for me were priorities and trusting my own gut.

Good luck to you all! Thanks.

Re: How do you decide?
 

Yeah and what happened to the “Well regulated” part. We could talk in circles. That’s all that happens- thoughts and prayers, talking in circles, slowly come accustomed to the insanity and inaction. Ppl can say all they want about knives, acid attacks, fighting.... but when it’s come down to it, when mass violence happened, the UK responded the right way. No where is perfect and I think one person was spot on when they said no one can make the decision but you.

On a side note if you haven’t seen Jim Jeffries stand up about guns it’s really well done and worth watching.

Re: How do you decide?
 

Just caught Jeffries on this. Spot on.

Re: How do you decide?
 

Sounds more like the USA then anywhere I know of here in the UK....where there are drugs, money etc not matter where you live in this world you will have the bad elements of society, would I move to these "bad" areas, no, we moved to an area in WA that was not great (we did not know as we had just migrated) we soon saved and moved away.

Re: How do you decide?
 

Also places can change quite a lot over a few years. Stone Bridge Park used to be a scary place to be. However a load of money was pumped into regeneration and it became a very different place. However the people that made it a bad place, just tend to move to another part of the city.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-new...-london-408462

Re: How do you decide?
 

I pretty much agree with everything you say, except that my son has survived high school here but now will go to uni in the UK. I have decided that quality of life, for the sorts of things I care about, will now be better in the UK. Yes, I will be living in somewhere very small and definitely not posh at all. But everything else outweighs that, and no it's not the same country here as it was 20 years ago. But I have positive reasons for wanting to be in the UK, not just negative reasons for wanting to leave the US.

Re: How do you decide?
 

For me it is my USC wife that wants to move to the UK because of the changing US culture. Yes, these are scary times, but growing up in the UK during the bombings was also scary. I have small children, and there appears to be plenty of work for me on both sides. I am not sure I want my kids to be traumatized by having to do active shooter drills. They are not really old enough to understand yet.