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Gordon's Latest Gaffe

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Old Apr 30th 2010, 6:58 pm
  #46  
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Default Re: Gordon's Latest Gaffe

Originally Posted by Cape Blue
Why would a EU citizens tax contributions be any more "used up" than anyone elses?
They wouldn't, but based on Gordons spending spree and huge budget deficit, everyones taxes are used up!

Originally Posted by Cape Blue
The time limit makes a difference because in your earlier post (below) they only had to "come over here for a bit" and they can return home and claim benefits, what we can see is that it looks like "a bit" is two years of employment and "retruning home and claiming benefits" is 3 months. It puts it in perspective.
Given the previous statement about taxes being "used up" surely the sensible thing is to cut the unnecessary spending of supporting someone who is not even in the country, no matter how short the time frame is?


Like I said before I believe it frustrates me more than most because I have to jump through so many hoops to get to the US to protect the US taxpayer, but here there is far less protection for a UK taxpayer.

The other thing that frustrates me is how easy it seems to be for the system to be played.
On a personal note my sister got made redundant (from a company that is involved in the deportation of illegal immigrants - funnily enough) when she was heavily pregnant. Getting another job at that stage in pregnancy, with a potential employer knowing all the time that would be lost was next to impossible, as was getting any kind of help from the government.
So here we have someone who needed help but couldn't get it, and yet other people who are playing the system and laughing at everyone else.
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Old Apr 30th 2010, 7:39 pm
  #47  
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Default Re: Gordon's Latest Gaffe

Originally Posted by srefre
They wouldn't, but based on Gordons spending spree and huge budget deficit, everyones taxes are used up!

Given the previous statement about taxes being "used up" surely the sensible thing is to cut the unnecessary spending of supporting someone who is not even in the country, no matter how short the time frame is?

Like I said before I believe it frustrates me more than most because I have to jump through so many hoops to get to the US to protect the US taxpayer, but here there is far less protection for a UK taxpayer.

The other thing that frustrates me is how easy it seems to be for the system to be played.
On a personal note my sister got made redundant (from a company that is involved in the deportation of illegal immigrants - funnily enough) when she was heavily pregnant. Getting another job at that stage in pregnancy, with a potential employer knowing all the time that would be lost was next to impossible, as was getting any kind of help from the government.
So here we have someone who needed help but couldn't get it, and yet other people who are playing the system and laughing at everyone else.
Non-EU citizens have to jump through a lot of hoops to come to the UK as well. When it comes to EU citizens we signed up many years ago for the free movement of people (little like movement of people between US States) and there are over a million Brits who have taken up the opportunity to live elsewhere in the EU.

I guess I just don't see it as playing the system - jobseekers get jobseekers allowance and if there is likely to be more employment opportunities in other EU countries they can get it for 3 months whilst looking for work abroad - better they try that than keep on claiming in the UK.
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Old Apr 30th 2010, 8:47 pm
  #48  
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Default Re: Gordon's Latest Gaffe

Originally Posted by Cape Blue
Non-EU citizens have to jump through a lot of hoops to come to the UK as well.
In my experience, I would disagree with this. The process for my USC wife to come here was far easier than the process I am going through to get to the US.

Originally Posted by Cape Blue
I guess I just don't see it as playing the system - jobseekers get jobseekers allowance and if there is likely to be more employment opportunities in other EU countries they can get it for 3 months whilst looking for work abroad - better they try that than keep on claiming in the UK.
Again true, but a bit like saying a broken leg is better than a snapped spine. Just because one option is better, does not mean it is desirable.

RE: Playing the system - Not sure we are talking about the same thing here. Playing the system was a slightly off topic, but related remark, that the system here is open to abuses. I don't believe all immigrants are playing the system.
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Old Apr 30th 2010, 9:18 pm
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Default Re: Gordon's Latest Gaffe

Originally Posted by Lothianlad
day in, day out here in Brown's Broken Britannia.
How broken is Britain?
It has become fashionable to say that British society is in a mess and getting worse. It isn’t.


THEY are not the world’s most effusive people at the best of times. But even by their usual gloomy standards, Britons seem to have got themselves into a slough of despond of late. Well before the economic crisis they were weeping on the shoulders of pollsters, who reported rapidly rising levels of dismay about the country’s direction and an increased sense of nostalgia about the good old days. For those (and they are legion, on inner-city council estates as well as in the shires) who think that society in Britain is “broken”, the country is stuck in a mire of crime, fractured families and feral youth.

It is an idea that resonates. Every week serves up a new tragedy or outrage to be added to the pile of evidence. Such episodes have the power to jolt the public mood, as in 1993 when Tony Blair, then the shadow home secretary, described the murder of two-year-old James Bulger as a sign of “a society that is becoming unworthy of that name”. A similarly awful attack last year on two boys in South Yorkshire was held up by David Cameron, the Conservative leader, as not an “isolated incident of evil” but evidence of a profound problem that goes to the heart of society. He has made “broken Britain” a leitmotif in the run-up to the general election due by June 3rd.

It would be idiotic to claim that Britain is perfect. The vomitous binge-drinking mainly by the young, the drug abuse and teenage pregnancy that are still higher than in most west European countries and the large proportion of single-parent families all tell a tale. But the story of broad decline is simply untrue (see article). Stepping back from the glare of the latest appalling tale, it is clear that by most measures things have been getting better for a good decade and a half. In suggesting that the rot runs right through society, the Tories fail to pinpoint the areas where genuine crises persist. The broken-Britain myth is worse than scaremongering—it glosses over those who need help most.

The bad old days
The broken Britain of legend is one where danger stalks the streets as never before. In the real Britain, the police have just recorded the lowest number of murders for 19 years. In mythical broken Britain, children are especially at risk. Back in real life, child homicides have fallen by more than two-thirds since the 1970s. Britain used to be the third-biggest killer of children in the rich world; it is now the 17th. And more mundane crimes have fallen too: burglaries and car theft are about half as common now as they were 15 years ago. Even the onset of recession has not reversed that downward trend so far.

Comatose teenagers line every gutter in the boozy Britain of popular imagination. Yet after a long period of increase, there are tentative signs that Britons are drinking less alcohol. The overall consumption of drugs is dropping (though some narcotics, including cocaine, are becoming more popular) and rates of smoking are now among the lowest in Europe.

As for family breakdown, some commentators seem to think that sex really was invented in 1963. British grannies know differently. Teenage pregnancy is still too common, but it has been declining, with the odd hiccup, for ages. A girl aged between 15 and 19 today is about half as likely to have a baby in her teens as her grandmother was. Her partner will probably not marry her and he is less likely to stick with her than were men in previous generations, but he is also a lot less likely to beat her. In homing in on the cosier parts of the Britain of yesteryear, it is easy to ignore the horrors that have gone. Straight white men are especially vulnerable to this sort of amnesia.
http://www.economist.com/opinion/dis...ry_id=15452811
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