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Everyone thinks I'm mad........

Everyone thinks I'm mad........

Old Mar 16th 2009, 12:31 am
  #46  
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Default Re: Everyone thinks I'm mad........

Originally Posted by Fleaflyfloflum
When he goes for his interview, we intend to have a good look around the area for a couple of days and stay in a holiday caravan near Hastings so i will report on how i find it.

Have you been looking at moving there then?
Hastings no, but I`m always looking for holiday homes around the world that will give me something very different to my lifestyle here in Spain, reason I mentioned it is that a good friend of mine in London is thinking of moving out of London and mentioned Hastings as a possibility due to its well priced housing and being commuting distance to London, hopefully if he moves somewhere like that then it gives me another location to visit in the UK other than the London or Leicester choices that I have at the moment.
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Old Mar 16th 2009, 12:45 am
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Default Re: Everyone thinks I'm mad........

Originally Posted by Jules Europe
Certainly agree with your sentiments about Essex though, what a depressing place
hold on there Jules - I would agree that parts of Essex are nasty, but once you get outside the M25 and away from the Thames estuary most of Essex is very pleasant. The "depressing" parts of Essex really only make up about one quarter, maybe one third of the county's area.
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Old Mar 16th 2009, 1:00 am
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Default Re: Everyone thinks I'm mad........

Originally Posted by elfman
hold on there Jules - I would agree that parts of Essex are nasty, but once you get outside the M25 and away from the Thames estuary most of Essex is very pleasant. The "depressing" parts of Essex really only make up about one quarter, maybe one third of the county's area.
Agreed and the same could be said of the part of Kent that borders onto the Thames estuary as well, with places such as Gravesend and Margate being equally nasty.
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Old Mar 16th 2009, 2:13 am
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Default Re: Everyone thinks I'm mad........

Originally Posted by Fleaflyfloflum
Yeah, i know what you mean, but Essex is new to me as i dont come from there originally, i only went there for the first time when my daughter moved there 2yrs ago and fell in love with it.
We probably wont be living there long term either, as OH has got several job prospects and the best ones are in Sussex, but i do love northern Essex villages, this link below shows one of my faves..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/essex/content/i...allery.shtml?1


Homesick now after looking at those

Ahhh......Maldon on the Mud!

That brings back a lot of good memories. I haven't visited there for years but it looks just the same.

Thanks mate
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Old Mar 16th 2009, 5:08 am
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Default Re: Everyone thinks I'm mad........

Originally Posted by stm1971
Since I have made it known that I want to go home to England most of my Oz (mainly English) friends and family think I have lost my mind.

They are coming out with all the usual stuff....

“What do you want to go back to that s***hole for?”

” it’s full of immigrants”, (excuse me, aren’t we)??

“schools are c**p and full of bl***s”
(this one came from a close family member of OH’s, believe it or not)! My daughter replied “so what ***, I’ve got loads of different coloured kids in my school, what’s the difference”. Very proud of her, I was.

“you wouldn’t catch me getting on a plane back there, it’s gone to the dogs”

“how could you give all this up?” while holding hands up to the sky

Etc etc etc………

My point is, why do they do this?
I am not having a go at Perth (well, only sometimes ), but I’m just ready to go home now and I think I have given them many logical and valid reasons for my decision. I actually try not to bring the subject up in front of them but it must be a slow news month for everyone as it's all they keep talking about.

It wouldn’t normally bother me as I don’t really care what other people think, but it is bothering OH. He pretty much feels the same as me about leaving but all the comments are making him doubt whether going back to the UK is the right choice.

I even found out that my in-laws were discussing me with some friends and they have come to the conclusion that I am depressed and the tablets I’m taking (recently started thyroid medication) have confused me and I don’t know what I want!!!

Okkkkkkkkkkay…………..I think at 37 I might have figured out what I want out of life!! If anything, I feel better than I have in months as it's a relief to admit that I don't want to be here anymore.


Has anyone else encountered this??
It doesn't get any better when you get back to UK, you get asked the same questions over and over again "why have you come back to this dump"...

Ignorance is what i call it and very shallow.

I just say "cause i want to live here, what's it got to do with you"...they soon shut up lol.
By the way my in-laws who have lived the 'dream' in Perth for 6 years are now moving back to UK. They can't hack it anymore haha...these people were the ones who got us to move over there saying it was the bees knees, should have paid no attention to them, they always talked sh*t
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Old Mar 16th 2009, 1:50 pm
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Default Re: Everyone thinks I'm mad........

I dont get some of you guys, most of the Ozzies I know and work with ask me why the hell I left the UK to live here, I have rarely met an Australian curious about my background who have either visited the UK or who long to do so that would love (or at least think that they would) to live there.

What I do witness regulary is people living in Oz from the UK and people still in the UK (my own family and friends) slagging it off, the latter can be excussed as they dont know any different

Maybe its something to do with Canberra where I live
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Old Mar 16th 2009, 2:48 pm
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Default Re: Everyone thinks I'm mad........

It's your life -live it as you deem best. Screw what other folks say. They're not living your life - you are...I still miss England after living in US for 25 years. Like a lot of folks though who live abroad for a long time - no place ever really seems home again. Would move to Scotland though in a heartbeat if right job came along. Love Brits as well and miss all my friends but have to do what I have to do..
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Old Mar 16th 2009, 3:57 pm
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Default Re: Everyone thinks I'm mad........

There is a growing sense of anger in the UK which I don't notice here and I think because you're still in Australia planning to go back to the UK, you can't see or touch people's sense of fury at what they feel is currently wrong in the UK.
I must admit, people think I'm mad for returning too but I'm learning to sidestep it.
I think it's also about a sense of wellness. The Brits seem to be angry about lots of things but mostly their anger is aimed at their perceived unfairness towards the British taxpayer while others seem to get everything for nothing. In this current economic climate, those feelings are strongly amplified when they see British institutions going down like Woolworths. The sense of grieving is still clearly very strong. It's mostly about loss and the sense of 'unwellness' so to me, it's like there is a huge sense of bereavement and bewilderment.

In contrast, the Australians seem to have a sense of 'wellness'. They feel looked after and supported and there is a feeling of being united in a common struggle. Many Brits seemed to feel isolated and bitter at what they perceive is happening to the UK. This is made all the more real by being in a cold, grey climate. It's a lot easier to be miserable in a sunny, warm climate where you could if you had to, survive on very little money.
I honestly don't know what to expect when I go back but I'm sensing that the mood will be very different to here.
I live my life exactly as I did in the UK in terms of a daily routine so I know I'll be going back to the same. However, I do think the UK is experiencing a period of discontent and tangible frustration at what they see as an unfair compromise of their living standards, access to health and education and jobs as a result of the economy. Many of my friends sound very unhappy and preoccupied with surviving the future.
That's my recent understanding anyway and I think that's why we probably get accused of being mad. The trouble is that if that's the majority thinking, it will create a strong sense of reality so for me, the timing of returning is a matter currently up for negotiation.
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Old Mar 16th 2009, 6:24 pm
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Default Re: Everyone thinks I'm mad........

Originally Posted by cricket1
There is a growing sense of anger in the UK which I don't notice here and I think because you're still in Australia planning to go back to the UK, you can't see or touch people's sense of fury at what they feel is currently wrong in the UK.
I must admit, people think I'm mad for returning too but I'm learning to sidestep it.
I think it's also about a sense of wellness. The Brits seem to be angry about lots of things but mostly their anger is aimed at their perceived unfairness towards the British taxpayer while others seem to get everything for nothing. In this current economic climate, those feelings are strongly amplified when they see British institutions going down like Woolworths. The sense of grieving is still clearly very strong. It's mostly about loss and the sense of 'unwellness' so to me, it's like there is a huge sense of bereavement and bewilderment.

In contrast, the Australians seem to have a sense of 'wellness'. They feel looked after and supported and there is a feeling of being united in a common struggle. Many Brits seemed to feel isolated and bitter at what they perceive is happening to the UK. This is made all the more real by being in a cold, grey climate. It's a lot easier to be miserable in a sunny, warm climate where you could if you had to, survive on very little money.
I honestly don't know what to expect when I go back but I'm sensing that the mood will be very different to here.
I live my life exactly as I did in the UK in terms of a daily routine so I know I'll be going back to the same. However, I do think the UK is experiencing a period of discontent and tangible frustration at what they see as an unfair compromise of their living standards, access to health and education and jobs as a result of the economy. Many of my friends sound very unhappy and preoccupied with surviving the future.
That's my recent understanding anyway and I think that's why we probably get accused of being mad. The trouble is that if that's the majority thinking, it will create a strong sense of reality so for me, the timing of returning is a matter currently up for negotiation.

I think you have a good point Cricket. I certainly do feel there is an underlying anger in the UK as the moment. I am not there, so obviously I am basing my opinions on friends and families’ comments and online sources such as newspapers (Times, Guardian etc, not tabloids) and other boards.

It is sad that you have friends who are worried for their future. I think many people feel they are powerless to do anything about their immediate problems let alone the problems that the country faces as a whole and to a certain extent there is nothing they can do, especially in times like these. You just have to hope that they can ride it out as best they can.

I only said to my OH yesterday, I wonder if the English as a whole will ever stand up and be proud of their country for a change (for something other than a sporting team), instead of putting it down all the time. I am not living there at the moment so that is easy for me to say, I know, and as you said it’s easy to be miserable when it’s cold and grey and to think that everything is too hard. I myself have been guilty of this too in the past.

I often think the Scots, Irish and Welsh have a greater patriotism for their countries than the English do, which has somewhat diminished the English identity.

I wish I knew the answer and I can imagine that those faced with trying to deal with the problems are overwhelmed due to the scale of it all and the obstacles in their way.

I can certainly understand why you may be rethinking the timing of your move back. As much as I want to leave Aus, due to other commitments it won’t be before the end of this year, which may be a blessing in disguise with the way things are over there at the moment. Gives me a bit longer to plan, research and save some money (while we still have jobs).

Good luck with your decision.
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Old Mar 16th 2009, 7:17 pm
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Default Re: Everyone thinks I'm mad........

Originally Posted by stm1971
I think you have a good point Cricket. I certainly do feel there is an underlying anger in the UK as the moment. I am not there, so obviously I am basing my opinions on friends and families’ comments and online sources such as newspapers (Times, Guardian etc, not tabloids) and other boards.

It is sad that you have friends who are worried for their future. I think many people feel they are powerless to do anything about their immediate problems let alone the problems that the country faces as a whole and to a certain extent there is nothing they can do, especially in times like these. You just have to hope that they can ride it out as best they can.

I only said to my OH yesterday, I wonder if the English as a whole will ever stand up and be proud of their country for a change (for something other than a sporting team), instead of putting it down all the time. I am not living there at the moment so that is easy for me to say, I know, and as you said it’s easy to be miserable when it’s cold and grey and to think that everything is too hard. I myself have been guilty of this too in the past.

I often think the Scots, Irish and Welsh have a greater patriotism for their countries than the English do, which has somewhat diminished the English identity.

I wish I knew the answer and I can imagine that those faced with trying to deal with the problems are overwhelmed due to the scale of it all and the obstacles in their way.

I can certainly understand why you may be rethinking the timing of your move back. As much as I want to leave Aus, due to other commitments it won’t be before the end of this year, which may be a blessing in disguise with the way things are over there at the moment. Gives me a bit longer to plan, research and save some money (while we still have jobs).

Good luck with your decision.
Tough call isn't it? I think I'd be tempted to say if you have a good job and can put sentiment behind you for a while, even if you don't like where you are, staying put is the smart thing to do at the moment.
Trouble is I have daughter in the UK who thinks I'm the worst mother in the world because I'm over here ignoring her. I have a son over here who needs our practical support building his first home and wants us to stay a bit longer. My daughter could come over but she refuses, my son doesn't want to go back to the UK just yet because he likes it here. I can't win whatever I do plus the move to Australia really fractured family relations and it's only been recently that we've been able to patch things up a bit and move forwards so it's still walking on eggshells.
There just the personal issues which change almost every day. On a practical level, our situation is very stable so it's probably best to just be grateful for small mercies and not do anything on a whim.
Frustrating but sensible. Story of my life.
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Old Mar 16th 2009, 7:29 pm
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Default Re: Everyone thinks I'm mad........

One of the saddest things I have seen, re: English patriotism/lack of it, was the way the Brit cricket team was treated by their own people, years ago, on their return from Australia. And who could forget Gooch crying as he was handed the second-place trophy, and declaring himself (or the Brit team) 'unworthy' and 'not deserving' of it ? That was heartbreaking.

I think it harks back to the British temperament, which at bottom was based for a long time on some very high ideals such as humility -- 'not if you win or lose but how you play the game' --- 'treat others as you would have them treat you ' -- 'not blowing one's own trumpet' --- ' pride before a fall ', etc.

In my family, it was considered correct to never praise your children, for fear they'd become 'big headed'. So, no matter how well we did, it was minimised. Yet make one mistake, and it was exaggerated and admonished and punished and you had your nose rubbed in it.

My parents had been raised that way .. in the 'Children are to be seen but not heard' philosophy.

I remember being given lots of tasks as even a small child. And no matter how well I tried to do them, it was never good enough. ' Do it again and do it right this time' I'd be told, with a clip around the ear. At least three repeats of this was considered by my parents to be the 'best' way to raise a child to be a 'good worker ' and not a slacker.

My parents weren't unique, surely ? So, if we multiply this ' Don't get carried away with yourself .. you're adequate, that's all ... on a good day ' attitude across British society until perhaps a generation or so ago, it's hardly surprising that Brits generally have something akin to an inferiority complex and are hard-wired not to praise themselves or their fellow countrymen.

The Americans, generally speaking, seem to have ditched that authoritarian mentality and seem far more confident (often when it seems they don't have all that much to be confident (or 'carried away with themselves' as old-time Brits would regard it) about.

And Australians seem to have developed an attitude which combines the British and American outlooks.

Although .. it's not all that long ago that most Aussies considered it a rite of passage to visit the UK (aka 'home') at least once in their lives. And have Australian intellectuals and wannabes finally ceased referring scathingly to the 'cultural cringe' and 'tall poppy syndrome' as regards Oz ? For years, Aussies automatically regarded anything that came out of UK and US to be 'superior' to the Aussie product, be that tv shows or automobiles, fashion, etc.

To be honest, in all the years I've lived here, I can't say I've noticed Aussies praising themselves or their country all that much, other than in regard to sports. So it's always a bit of a mystery to me when I read in immigration fora that they do. I just don't see it.

What I did notice, after we emigrated to Australia, was Aussies feeling(and expressing ! ) resentment towards Pommy migrants (the job-situation combined with the insular mind-set of Aussies) which resulted in Pommies taking offence and criticising Australia in retaliation --- basically because the Pommies' feelings were hurt by the unexpected Aussie rejection in light of the fact the Australian government had wooed Brits into coming to Australia and telling them how welcome, better-off and desperately needed, etc. they were. Then they got here .. and got a kick in the teeth and were told by everyday Aussies to 'bugger off back to where you came from'.

I don't see Aussies 'bragging' in their everyday lives. But perhaps they act that way towards British migrants because Aussies know the UK has all that culture, history and access to Europe etc., whereas Aussies do not.

So perhaps Aussies automatically regard Brits as 'superior' .. and then try to even the score by talking-up Australia ?

And of course, for sixty or more years at least, Aussies have been fed stories about the UK's 'dark satanic mills' and how UK homes and people don't have bathrooms and 'never wash' and 'live on hot chips', etc. Just about every Pommy migrant has to tolerate those put-downs at some point.

Basically though, even though I haven't noticed Aussies bragging, I guess they might try it on with newly arrived Pommies, in an attempt to conceal their own feelings of inferiority which in turn is a legacy passed down by older generation Aussies ? That's what's usually behind most boasting, isn't it -- a sense of inferiority ? When the reality is, UK and Australia are not in a competition or shouldn't be. They're as different as apples and oranges. But people stay the same.
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Old Mar 16th 2009, 8:58 pm
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Default Re: Everyone thinks I'm mad........

Some interesting points on this thread.
One of the things I have actually noticed in regard to Aussies putting down the UK, is where they find the info that gives them the idea that Britain is a dive.
I have not encountered many to be honest but in every single case they were told by a Brit immigrant that the country has "gone to the dogs" "there is no future there" "everybody wants to leave" and so on.
It doesn't seem unreasonable that if Aussies hear that from every Brit they meet, that they will believe it. All my Aussie friends are well travelled and love Europe, the UK in particular, so I have not really come across any really negative stuff, so regarding the overly patriotic Aussie, I suppose it depends who you meet. I met far more anti English idiots in Scotland to be honest.

A poster alluded to an inferiority complex, which I think may well be the case in many situations here, as it is in Scotland.
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Old Mar 16th 2009, 9:04 pm
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Default Re: Everyone thinks I'm mad........

I would like to be optimistic - I think the worm will turn in UK and the strength is being mobilized by the anger which is growing. I dont know that Australia is up to that - Aus, to me, is an adolescent and has been nannied for the last several generations and has been lulled into a sense of entitlement and security which wont augur well if things get much worse and I think they have no idea just how much worse things can get - there is a lot of banking on the resource boom being reignited but there are murmurings that that isnt going to happen any time soon. Australia has really been taken by surprise by the speed that things have happened here and our incompetent muppets in charge have successfully scr*wed generations to come.

I'd like to think that the UK has done the hard yards and there is now a simmering anger which will see them right. My young fellow is there now and he is optimistic - he's certainly prepared to do his bit and has had a wide range of experiences in the past 6+ years he has been there. My parents are pessimistic but they are the last generation of war vets and have done their hard yards, basically the last generation of self reliance and responsibility and with a huge sense of frustration of the systematic disempowerment of the subsequent generations.

OTOH I could be right up the creek and things will just fall apart everywhere which is sort of what DH thinks - he wants to be self sufficient far enough away from anyone and everyone. A crystal ball would be good just about now!
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Old Mar 16th 2009, 9:20 pm
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Default Re: Everyone thinks I'm mad........

Originally Posted by quoll
I would like to be optimistic - I think the worm will turn in UK and the strength is being mobilized by the anger which is growing. I dont know that Australia is up to that - Aus, to me, is an adolescent and has been nannied for the last several generations and has been lulled into a sense of entitlement and security which wont augur well if things get much worse and I think they have no idea just how much worse things can get - there is a lot of banking on the resource boom being reignited but there are murmurings that that isnt going to happen any time soon. Australia has really been taken by surprise by the speed that things have happened here and our incompetent muppets in charge have successfully scr*wed generations to come.

I'd like to think that the UK has done the hard yards and there is now a simmering anger which will see them right. My young fellow is there now and he is optimistic - he's certainly prepared to do his bit and has had a wide range of experiences in the past 6+ years he has been there. My parents are pessimistic but they are the last generation of war vets and have done their hard yards, basically the last generation of self reliance and responsibility and with a huge sense of frustration of the systematic disempowerment of the subsequent generations.

OTOH I could be right up the creek and things will just fall apart everywhere which is sort of what DH thinks - he wants to be self sufficient far enough away from anyone and everyone. A crystal ball would be good just about now!

I think the UK will survive but it will have to turn horses mid stream very quickly by looking after the Brits first and non Brits second in order for the anger to abate. And rightly so. What was the point of so many going to war and fighting for their country if governments are going to roll over now?
My heart aches for England but I think I love the old England, not the current day England and there's my dilemma and probably it's the same for a lot of people who leave and miss it.
My husband today has told me that we should wait another year before returning. This makes sense. He has a secure well paid job and another year takes him upto retirement (he's older than me). Our supers have lost 50% so by waiting another year, it means that we can buy a house in the UK while we're still here, rent out the house we have here (which will become our super), then cash in his super to back to the UK. Being 50 +, you have to consider all the options including how easy it might be to get another job along with how much less time you have left to make up any losses or mistakes.

On a different note, I have rarely encountered any bias from the Aussies. Their perception of the UK appears to come from talking to aggrieved Brits and how they perceive the UK news. I do wish the Brits wouldn't moan so much once they get here. That is such a bad advert.
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Old Mar 17th 2009, 12:56 am
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Default Re: Everyone thinks I'm mad........

Where are the 'whinging Chinese', the 'whining Italians', the 'whining Lebanese' ?

Oh, they're here and they do criticise Oz .. continually, in many instances.

But we should be asking, 'where are the other northern europeans -- where are the big groups of Scandinavians, Germans, Dutch, French ? ' Where -- where are they ?

I know they were here. They were very industrious and independent and they had no qualms about voicing criticism of Australia.

But most of those whom I knew, returned to northern Europe. Wonder why ?


The Italians, Greeks, Maltese, Lebanese, Chinese .. they maintain their national identity and connections when they migrate to Australia. They intermarry. They go into business together. They employ each other and each other's kids. They establish their own clubs, they live within a soft coooeee of each other; often next door, taking over streets or even suburbs at a time. When you attend their functions, you'll hear them speaking in their regional tongue, often fifty or more years after the first generation migrated to Australia. They definitely put their own first and frown on their third or fourth generations marrying outside their 'own'.

Brits on the other hand, generally arrive in a single-family group and attempt to forge ahead on their own -- which is not easy, unless you arrive with a healthy wallet. Lately, they've begun to form organisations and arrange meet-ups and of course nowadays they have access to internet, which takes the edge off the migration process compared to emigrant Brits of past decades.

As well, throughout the continuing waves of migrants to land on Aussie shores, the Mediterranean and Asian migrants have largely been considered 'lucky' to be accepted into Australia, whereas Brits have been seen as 'equals' and therefore ripe for a bit of a bashing.

It's commonly perceived that for southern Europeans and Asians, any place is better than the one they left. Plus ... you can 'get into trouble' for knocking them. Poms on the other hand are considered fair-game, because they're not automatically regarded as disadvantaged. Kiwis cop the same deal.

Yet of all the migrants to land in Oz, Poms are probably the most vulnerable, for all the reasons above.

Not only that --- the Aussie government actively seeks British migrants and has been using the same spiel for decades: sun, sand, happy smiles and 'better lifestyle', plus the offer of work and claims that Oz is crying out for Brit tradespeople.

The Oz government doesn't have to promote Oz to Asia. And it would appear the Oz government has given up trying to seduce other northern (or even southern) Europeans, who prefer Europe these days, thanks very much.

So, of all the migrants in Australia, it's the Brits who've been wooed the hardest, promised the most and (some might suggest) end up gaining the least.

Do Asians have to pay for their children to attend Aussie State schools for a set period, for instance ? Do Asians have to pass a skills or even medical tests ? Talk to experienced Sydney cabbies and you'll learn a lot. Or, simply look around, down in China town. Note the elderly, recently-arrived Asian migrants. They're not wealthy or of independent means. They didn't have to purchase a business or show a profit of X-thousand dollars per year. Yet they're here. They have Medicare. Chinatown libraries are equipped with Asian-speaking staff, are provided tv-rooms where they can watch Chinese tv all day if they like. They're assisted or provided with housing. It's interesting.

So if, as someone claimed, Brit migrants are a 'poor advert' ... advert for what ... disenchantment ? Hardship ? Disillusionment ? Disappointment ? Struggling to make it in the land of opportunity after all the promises ?

What should they do -- stiffen their upper lip, make a cup of tea and sing 'jolly ho' when their hearts are breaking and their pockets are empty ?

Why ? Why .. of ALL the whining migrants in Oz, should the Brits be expected to just shut-up and make like it's all ok ?

Spend some time with Italian or Lebanese migrants. Listen to what they say about Oz and its people and its 'opportunity'. It will be a real eye-opener. But of course ... it won't be in English ! So that's ok. The Aussies can't understand when they and their country are being put down, even if the non-english-speaking migrant says it to their face. So that's ok. It's just the Poms who are sometimes less than happy with Oz. Of course it is .. just the Poms. Everyone else, including Aussies themselves, are happy 24/7. Sure. That must be it
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