Domestic Violence

Old Nov 5th 2009, 12:56 am
  #1  
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 6,848
Englishmum has a reputation beyond reputeEnglishmum has a reputation beyond reputeEnglishmum has a reputation beyond reputeEnglishmum has a reputation beyond reputeEnglishmum has a reputation beyond reputeEnglishmum has a reputation beyond reputeEnglishmum has a reputation beyond reputeEnglishmum has a reputation beyond reputeEnglishmum has a reputation beyond reputeEnglishmum has a reputation beyond reputeEnglishmum has a reputation beyond repute
Angry Domestic Violence

I received a very sad and distressing e-mail this morning from my friend who lives on our condo in the Far East.

My friend is a domestic violence victim; 2nd marriage for both of them so have been married for a couple of years only and both British citizens, although have lived overseas for many years. A couple of children are from her first marriage (the current spouse doesn't like his step-kids) and she has two from her 2nd spouse, including a very young baby.

He's hit her before, stopped whilst she was pregnant and now the baby is here he's hitting her again. Worse, he's done it in front of her children and the oldest is almost a teenager, which is upsetting for them. If she calls the police (they've been called out before) he has been informed that he will be arrested and jailed; he will almost certainly lose his expat contract posting and their permits will be cancelled and have to immediately return to the UK. It clearly didn't stop him hitting her again a few days ago....and this time she didn't call the cops.

I have no idea why she hasn't left already (I would have) but I'm not walking in her shoes. She is reluctant to pack up return to the UK as she/they have no home there (has mostly lived overseas since her 20s) and her kids (foreign father, no contact or support) have been to quite a lot of schools and she wants some kind of stability as they are currently in excellent international schools. She is afraid of ending up on a rough council estate with bad local schools and living on welfare. My friend says she'll never get any money out of him for child support; he has kids from his first marriage and he does financially support them - but he will stay out of the UK and do contract work in the Middle East or Far East.

TBH I think its only going to be a matter of time before the relationship implodes (he's already said he wants a divorce) and I think she's hanging on in there because she doesn't know what her rights are and if she is entitled to any help in the UK. I've been away too long to know whether or not any practical assistance - if any - is available.

My question is: does anyone know of what help she could get if she gets on a plane with the four children to the UK? A shelter is the last place she would want to end up in....I think if she could move into a private rented house (paid for with housing benefit if she can get it?) she would leave the barsteward, but I honestly think she would rather endure his bullying than end up on a 'sink' estate.

PS: My friend has the key to our apartment and knows that she can go there with the kids any time she likes if she needs to escape (but not a long-term solution). She hasn't asked for any advice, she just told me the facts. I'm happy just to listen to her if that's all she wants to do, but I'd like to be able to give her UK phone nos, websites, legal advice etc but don't know how to go about compiling the info.

Thoughts?
Englishmum is offline  
Old Nov 5th 2009, 4:39 am
  #2  
Bon Vivant
 
Simon Legree's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 2,956
Simon Legree has a reputation beyond reputeSimon Legree has a reputation beyond reputeSimon Legree has a reputation beyond reputeSimon Legree has a reputation beyond reputeSimon Legree has a reputation beyond reputeSimon Legree has a reputation beyond reputeSimon Legree has a reputation beyond reputeSimon Legree has a reputation beyond reputeSimon Legree has a reputation beyond reputeSimon Legree has a reputation beyond reputeSimon Legree has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Domestic Violence

What is it that they say ? The first time he hits her it's his fault. The second and subsequent times are her fault for sticking around. It does sound simplistic but the chances of her life improving while he is in the picture are slim to none. Take her children and run. Anything is better than what she is currently being subjected to. My sympathies.
Simon Legree is offline  
Old Nov 5th 2009, 4:45 am
  #3  
 
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 23,400
Cheetah7 has a reputation beyond reputeCheetah7 has a reputation beyond reputeCheetah7 has a reputation beyond reputeCheetah7 has a reputation beyond reputeCheetah7 has a reputation beyond reputeCheetah7 has a reputation beyond reputeCheetah7 has a reputation beyond reputeCheetah7 has a reputation beyond reputeCheetah7 has a reputation beyond reputeCheetah7 has a reputation beyond reputeCheetah7 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Domestic Violence

Where I used to live in London, we had a neighbour and her boyfriend was always bashing her, we could hear her screaming and we could hear him threatening to kill her.

I called the cops one day and they never turned up. I asked her if she needed any help, if there was anything I could do - I waited until he was out. She said everything was fine, no I couldnt help her.

I asked a few times, she always said no. There was nothing I could do, they moved out and bought a house together.

The victim is made to feel worthless, their self esteem is bashed so low that they believe they cant function without that person.

I dont pretend to know what that is like but I realise now that the person has to want to leave, has to be strong enough to leave. Whatever anyone tells them or believes, doesnt matter.

You have to hit the bottom before you rise up but my sympathy will always lie with the children who are given no choice in the matter.
Cheetah7 is offline  
Old Nov 5th 2009, 4:56 am
  #4  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 41,518
Sally Redux has a reputation beyond reputeSally Redux has a reputation beyond reputeSally Redux has a reputation beyond reputeSally Redux has a reputation beyond reputeSally Redux has a reputation beyond reputeSally Redux has a reputation beyond reputeSally Redux has a reputation beyond reputeSally Redux has a reputation beyond reputeSally Redux has a reputation beyond reputeSally Redux has a reputation beyond reputeSally Redux has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Domestic Violence

Wouldn't there be a legal problem for her if she just took off with his kids? Then she would have to protect her identity etc. The best thing really would be to call the police and deal with it that way, but as PP so rightly says, the victim has to agree to that.
Sally Redux is offline  
Old Nov 5th 2009, 7:34 am
  #5  
BE Forum Addict
 
luvwelly's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,285
luvwelly has a reputation beyond reputeluvwelly has a reputation beyond reputeluvwelly has a reputation beyond reputeluvwelly has a reputation beyond reputeluvwelly has a reputation beyond reputeluvwelly has a reputation beyond reputeluvwelly has a reputation beyond reputeluvwelly has a reputation beyond reputeluvwelly has a reputation beyond reputeluvwelly has a reputation beyond reputeluvwelly has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Domestic Violence

Originally Posted by Sally Redux
Wouldn't there be a legal problem for her if she just took off with his kids? Then she would have to protect her identity etc. The best thing really would be to call the police and deal with it that way, but as PP so rightly says, the victim has to agree to that.
I don't get the impression we are dealing with a reasonable law system here...surely she can trade, I take kids for not dobbing you in to what passes for the police here?
Failing that she can go to the British Embassy for assistance...in fact that should be her first port of call probably.
But as someone else said the problem is her lack of self esteem.
She's not going to starve in UK with kids in tow as a returning UK citizen....the bare minimum would be bed and breakfast accommodation surely...the kids can't be allowed to suffer....does she have no UK support network who can help her get set up on her own two feet in UK.
There are of course also Womens Refuges.....if her and her kids' passage was paid for by the company employing her husband, they also probably have a duty of care to return her to UK should she require that...i.e. should she have no access to funds, so she could also ask their HR department for assistance, I would have thought.
luvwelly is offline  
Old Nov 5th 2009, 8:37 am
  #6  
Forum Regular
 
Jo.Ru_onway's Avatar
 
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: Barrie but after the winter !
Posts: 193
Jo.Ru_onway has much to be proud ofJo.Ru_onway has much to be proud ofJo.Ru_onway has much to be proud ofJo.Ru_onway has much to be proud ofJo.Ru_onway has much to be proud ofJo.Ru_onway has much to be proud ofJo.Ru_onway has much to be proud ofJo.Ru_onway has much to be proud ofJo.Ru_onway has much to be proud ofJo.Ru_onway has much to be proud ofJo.Ru_onway has much to be proud of
Default Re: Domestic Violence

Originally Posted by Professional Princess
Where I used to live in London, we had a neighbour and her boyfriend was always bashing her, we could hear her screaming and we could hear him threatening to kill her.

I called the cops one day and they never turned up. I asked her if she needed any help, if there was anything I could do - I waited until he was out. She said everything was fine, no I couldnt help her.

I asked a few times, she always said no. There was nothing I could do, they moved out and bought a house together.

The victim is made to feel worthless, their self esteem is bashed so low that they believe they cant function without that person.

I dont pretend to know what that is like but I realise now that the person has to want to leave, has to be strong enough to leave. Whatever anyone tells them or believes, doesnt matter.

You have to hit the bottom before you rise up but my sympathy will always lie with the children who are given no choice in the matter.
I have been in exactly the same situation as this and you do not leave until you are ready, no matter what anyone tells you, i was a victim of domestic violence from the age of 16 - 22. I was so scared to leave as i thought i had nothing and nowhere to go but when i finally did leave it made me realise that nothing is worse than living like that. I have had to spend years building up my confidence and still have little set backs.
My only advice to the lady would be that even though living in a refuge for a short while is not ideal surely it is preferable to having her children exposed to this violence. She will also receive a lot of practical help and support.

My ex husband had seen his father do it to his mother and both him and his 3 brothers all hit their wives as they believed it was "the norm" so in the long term it could affect the children more than roughing it for a bit.

I would ask her what areas she would like to return to in the uk and try to find any refuge, domestic violent phone numbers and social security telephone numbers for that area.
At the end of the day though it has to be her decision to leave and all you can do is support her when she needs you.
She is lucky to have you as a friend
x
Jo.Ru_onway is offline  
Old Nov 5th 2009, 8:57 am
  #7  
BE Forum Addict
 
luvwelly's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,285
luvwelly has a reputation beyond reputeluvwelly has a reputation beyond reputeluvwelly has a reputation beyond reputeluvwelly has a reputation beyond reputeluvwelly has a reputation beyond reputeluvwelly has a reputation beyond reputeluvwelly has a reputation beyond reputeluvwelly has a reputation beyond reputeluvwelly has a reputation beyond reputeluvwelly has a reputation beyond reputeluvwelly has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Domestic Violence

Googles your friend:

http://www.crimereduction.homeoffice...violence40.htm

http://www.womensaid.org.uk/

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/crime-v...stic-violence/

http://www.hiddenhurt.co.uk/

http://www.nspcc.org.uk/helpandadvic..._wda35960.html

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/CrimeJus...ime/DG_4003136

Makes me proud to be British all this help out there......
luvwelly is offline  
Old Nov 5th 2009, 2:20 pm
  #8  
Home and Happy
 
Pollyana's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2002
Location: Keep true friends and puppets close, trust no-one else...
Posts: 93,786
Pollyana has a reputation beyond reputePollyana has a reputation beyond reputePollyana has a reputation beyond reputePollyana has a reputation beyond reputePollyana has a reputation beyond reputePollyana has a reputation beyond reputePollyana has a reputation beyond reputePollyana has a reputation beyond reputePollyana has a reputation beyond reputePollyana has a reputation beyond reputePollyana has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Domestic Violence

Excellent links - I've copied your post to the sticky thread with useful UK links
Pollyana is offline  
Old Nov 5th 2009, 2:38 pm
  #9  
Just Joined
 
Joined: Sep 2009
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 5
Glasgow_mama is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Domestic Violence

http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/
I used to volunteer in Scotland for the CAB. They are very helpful and have lawyers who can advise for free on a variety of topics. Might be worth a phone call ?
Glasgow_mama is offline  
Old Nov 5th 2009, 2:51 pm
  #10  
Homebody
 
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: HOME
Posts: 23,174
Elvira has a reputation beyond reputeElvira has a reputation beyond reputeElvira has a reputation beyond reputeElvira has a reputation beyond reputeElvira has a reputation beyond reputeElvira has a reputation beyond reputeElvira has a reputation beyond reputeElvira has a reputation beyond reputeElvira has a reputation beyond reputeElvira has a reputation beyond reputeElvira has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Domestic Violence

Originally Posted by Pollyana
Excellent links - I've copied your post to the sticky thread with useful UK links
I think Shelter might be another charity that might perhaps be able to help.

As far as help from 'official' bodies is concerned, she may run into problems because, by returning to the UK, she might be seen to have made herself intentionally homeless. There is also the 'Habitual Residency test' which is used by benefits centers and the like to assess eligibility.

So she would definitely want to look into this before returning to the UK. Hopefully one of the domestic violence charities might be able to offer some advice.

But, at the end of the day, no family in the UK will ever end up on the street, so anything must be preferable to being knocked about on a regular basis. Although I realise it's easy for me to say this. Actually being in this awful situation is an entirely different matter and I just hope she has the strength and the resources to get out of this relationship.
Elvira is offline  
Old Nov 5th 2009, 2:51 pm
  #11  
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 6,848
Englishmum has a reputation beyond reputeEnglishmum has a reputation beyond reputeEnglishmum has a reputation beyond reputeEnglishmum has a reputation beyond reputeEnglishmum has a reputation beyond reputeEnglishmum has a reputation beyond reputeEnglishmum has a reputation beyond reputeEnglishmum has a reputation beyond reputeEnglishmum has a reputation beyond reputeEnglishmum has a reputation beyond reputeEnglishmum has a reputation beyond repute
Post Re: Domestic Violence

Thank you all so much for your replies...and Luvwelly, I will be sure to pass on the info from the links on to my friend.

I'm currently in New Jersey and will be flying back to the Far East in a fortnight, I will try and phone her tonight - there is a 13 hour time difference so it will be the morning over there and the spouse should be at work.

I guess she is exhausted and very hormonal with looking after a new baby, the poor thing has a black eye (again).

One thing I do know, domestic violence occurs in all kinds of homes, whether or not the people involved are wealthy or poor.
Englishmum is offline  
Old Nov 5th 2009, 6:56 pm
  #12  
Oscar nominated
 
BristolUK's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: Moncton, NB, CANADA
Posts: 50,529
BristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond reputeBristolUK has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Domestic Violence

I think if she could move into a private rented house (paid for with housing benefit if she can get it?) she would leave the barsteward, but I honestly think she would rather endure his bullying than end up on a 'sink' estate.
If you take a look at the habitual residence threads here you will see that people do succeed in getting back into the Housing and Benefits system despite the myths perpetuated about having to be back x number of months before qualifying.

Housing Benefit would take care of the rent in privately rented accommodation but in the situation you describe that could only be achieved immediately if she had the money to secure the place to begin with.

Several local authorities do run schemes where they will guarantee a deposit for private accommodation and then Housing Benefit will pay for the rent - but Income Support would need to have been confirmed as due for someone to qualify.

Some local authorities have very good links with DWP for this. Bristol was one such place when I was working there. Good links between Women's Aid and DWP too. (Next Link in Bristol)

Land on the doorstep of the right organisations and they could get accommodation and benefits all underway very quickly. Of course, it would be a refuge unless she was able to get something else sorted.

There are also Housing Associations she could go for but there would likely be a long wait.

If someone can put her up or she can pay advance rent/deposit (keeping some aside for other costs) she can get back into the system and have a certain amount of choice about matters.

If not, she'd really have to take what was available at the time and then try to be more independent once she had the security of knowing there would be a regular income for rent and living costs.

What's "available" is going to vary. It could be a refuge, B&B, temporary home. Bigger cities will have the best resources but probably the less pleasant options.

Smaller cities/towns will have fewer resources and less experience but their worst will not be as bad as the worst of the inner city.
BristolUK is offline  
Old Nov 6th 2009, 10:54 pm
  #13  
Auntie Fa
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 7,344
Kooky. has a reputation beyond reputeKooky. has a reputation beyond reputeKooky. has a reputation beyond reputeKooky. has a reputation beyond reputeKooky. has a reputation beyond reputeKooky. has a reputation beyond reputeKooky. has a reputation beyond reputeKooky. has a reputation beyond reputeKooky. has a reputation beyond reputeKooky. has a reputation beyond reputeKooky. has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Domestic Violence

EM, she needs to be very careful. Whilst taking the kids and running seems like a good idea, and in their best interests, it won't go down favourably with the authorities where she is.

If he knows about it, there's a chance he could prevent it and cause a custody battle for the hell of it. As somebody said, the embassy should be able to advise her on this.

Personally, I think getting him arrested and getting his EP cancelled so they ALL have to leave the country might be a better way of getting her and the kids back to the UK without any legal problems.

You might be better asking about this on that old forum we both know, if you haven't already. Alternatively PM me and I'll make some discreet enquiries.
Kooky. is offline  
Old Nov 6th 2009, 11:03 pm
  #14  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 41,518
Sally Redux has a reputation beyond reputeSally Redux has a reputation beyond reputeSally Redux has a reputation beyond reputeSally Redux has a reputation beyond reputeSally Redux has a reputation beyond reputeSally Redux has a reputation beyond reputeSally Redux has a reputation beyond reputeSally Redux has a reputation beyond reputeSally Redux has a reputation beyond reputeSally Redux has a reputation beyond reputeSally Redux has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Domestic Violence

Originally Posted by Seasider
EM, she needs to be very careful. Whilst taking the kids and running seems like a good idea, and in their best interests, it won't go down favourably with the authorities where she is.

If he knows about it, there's a chance he could prevent it and cause a custody battle for the hell of it. As somebody said, the embassy should be able to advise her on this.

Personally, I think getting him arrested and getting his EP cancelled so they ALL have to leave the country might be a better way of getting her and the kids back to the UK without any legal problems.

You might be better asking about this on that old forum we both know, if you haven't already. Alternatively PM me and I'll make some discreet enquiries.
That's the way I was thinking.
Sally Redux is offline  
Old Nov 6th 2009, 11:20 pm
  #15  
Auntie Fa
 
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 7,344
Kooky. has a reputation beyond reputeKooky. has a reputation beyond reputeKooky. has a reputation beyond reputeKooky. has a reputation beyond reputeKooky. has a reputation beyond reputeKooky. has a reputation beyond reputeKooky. has a reputation beyond reputeKooky. has a reputation beyond reputeKooky. has a reputation beyond reputeKooky. has a reputation beyond reputeKooky. has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Domestic Violence

That's a separate discussion. The OP is asking for practical advice.
Kooky. is offline  

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.