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-   -   Considering moving back to the UK from US after 10 years (https://britishexpats.com/forum/moving-back-uk-61/considering-moving-back-uk-us-after-10-years-805375/)

Faiythe Aug 8th 2013 3:18 am

Considering moving back to the UK from US after 10 years
 
Hi Guys

So, my boyfriend and I (both UK Citizens) have been working and living in the US for around 10 years. My Parents are approaching the golden age of 70, and I am aware that their health is deteriorating. Despite having a reasonably good life here in TX, we are thinking about moving back to help take care of them. We have tried to research as much as possible on line, but the information is somewhat overwhelming, and I thought I would see if anyone here could answer a few questions for us:
1 - We are planning on taking back 2 dogs, 45-50lbs each. They need to fly from TX to either Birmingham or Heathrow. There would probably be a transfer in Chicago or Newark. Can anyone suggest a competent US company to handle all the work?

2 - Did anyone chose to handle shipping their pets themselves? Why? Was it easy ? How much did you save?

3- We would probably have to pass the Habitual Residency Test. I have read that they can hold your paperwork back upto 6 months before approval to make sure you are staying. Anyone have any experience with this?

4 - We will not have jobs when we move back. We will crash at my parents house but we will be sleeping on floor/sofa. I think the most my parents could cope with would be about a month of us living there. What chance would we have of getting social housing? Should we declare ourselves homeless?

5- We were thinking that we would have to save enough money to pay a years rent on a property, since the landlord would be renting to people with no income. How likely is it that the landlord would rent to us? Would we need a guarantor? If we get housing benefit, is it paid to the claimant or the landlord? I would hate to pay the landlord one years rent in full and then not get it back.

6 - We were thinking that we would need at least 2 months living expenses money put by until we get some sort of job. I would be looking for an office job and my Boyfriend would take pretty much anything. He is a mechanic by trade but now he is coming up for 55 he really would like to do something different. He was thinking of looking for work as a driver or stocker or something like that. What did you budget when you moved back?

Any answers to any of the above gratefully received.

Overwhelmed of Texas,
Faiy.

Editha Aug 8th 2013 4:36 am

Re: Considering moving back to the UK from US after 10 years
 
Where in the UK are you planning to move to? Living expenses, availability of housing and job opportunities vary a lot round the country.

Not sure what you mean by The Habitual Residency test. What paperwork do you think needs to be done when you arrive in the UK that could be held up by this?

Faiythe Aug 8th 2013 5:46 am

Re: Considering moving back to the UK from US after 10 years
 
We would be moving to Mansfield, Notts.

From http://www.housing-rights.info/habit...dence-test.php

"What is 'habitual residence'?

The purpose of the test is to stop someone claiming social benefits immediately when they enter the UK (for example, if they have a right of abode as British Citizen but have never lived here or have not lived here for a long time).

The term ‘habitual residence’ is not defined. It is decided by looking at all the facts of the case but no single list can be drawn up to govern all cases. However, the DWP gives good general guidance (pdf) (paragraphs C4.87-106).

There are two elements to the phrase ‘habitual residence’

'residence': the person must be actually resident – mere intention to live here is not sufficient nor is mere presence
'habitual': there must be a degree of permanence about the residence - it implies a settled state in which the person is making their home here.

Gaining habitual residence

A person who leaves another country with the intention to settle in the UK does not become habitually resident immediately on arrival. Instead there are two main requirements (R(IS) 6/96):

residence must be for an ‘appreciable period of time’
there must be an intention to settle in the UK.


There is no fixed period that qualifies as an ‘appreciable period of time’. It will vary according the facts of the case taking account of the length, continuity and nature of the residence: (R(IS) 6/96). For example, is there any previous residence and what was it for (e.g. a holiday)? However, benefits case law suggests that the period lies between one and three months: CIS/4474/2003. Although no one factor decides what is an appreciable period of time, DWP guidance (see link above, paragraphs C4.85-86) suggests that the main factors likely to be relevant are:

length and continuity of residence
reasons for coming to the UK
future intentions
employment prospects, and
centre of interest.

The guidance explains these in more detail and provides helpful examples of each.
Losing habitual residence

Habitual residence can be lost in a single day, for example if someone leaves the UK with the intention to settle long-term in another country."


So passing this test would seem to be needed in order to qualify for any housing or unemployment or job-seeker related benefits

rebs Aug 8th 2013 7:52 am

Re: Considering moving back to the UK from US after 10 years
 
I think you would have almost zero chance of social housing pretty much anywhere in the UK. The waiting lists are just so long.

If you are able to have savings that would equate to a year's rent, then I would also imagine that you would have capital above the thresholds for means tested benefits, so the habitual residence test is not likely to be an issue either.

Take a look at the benefit calculator and see what you think... https://www.gov.uk/benefits-adviser

robin1234 Aug 8th 2013 12:50 pm

Re: Considering moving back to the UK from US after 10 years
 
If I were you I would batten down the hatches and save, save, save while still living in the US then go home to the UK with enough money saved up so you could live for six months or a year. That way you wouldn't have to worry about habitual residency, bureaucracy, or benefits.

Faiythe Aug 8th 2013 12:52 pm

Re: Considering moving back to the UK from US after 10 years
 
Yes, we have already started to sell off our stuff, in order to have the one years rent, 2 months living expenses and 2 months boarding for the dogs, and enough money to purchase a car put by...

RyanD Aug 8th 2013 1:14 pm

Re: Considering moving back to the UK from US after 10 years
 
Saving up is the best course of action, it won't be easy to find a job right away. Good luck with your move!

Editha Aug 8th 2013 3:30 pm

Re: Considering moving back to the UK from US after 10 years
 
Yes, sorry I was confused by your statement that you'd save enough for a year's rent. Didn't occur to me you were also thinking about benefits.

Bluegrass Lass Aug 8th 2013 8:12 pm

Re: Considering moving back to the UK from US after 10 years
 
We are in the process of moving. My hubby (the Brit) is already over there. He found a flat for us, and even though we were last over there in mid-2011, they wanted us to pay 3months rent up front since they wouldn't be able to do a credit check. We had his folks be a guarantor for us, since we couldn't cough up enough to pay the 3months. Obviously every agency will be different, but this gives an idea of what you could be facing.

Faiythe Aug 9th 2013 2:01 am

Re: Considering moving back to the UK from US after 10 years
 

Originally Posted by rebs (Post 10840722)
I think you would have almost zero chance of social housing pretty much anywhere in the UK. The waiting lists are just so long.

If you are able to have savings that would equate to a year's rent, then I would also imagine that you would have capital above the thresholds for means tested benefits, so the habitual residence test is not likely to be an issue either.

Take a look at the benefit calculator and see what you think... https://www.gov.uk/benefits-adviser

From the benefits adviser :

"About your income
Is the value of any household savings or assets more than £16,000? Don't count child savings or your main home assets could include: cash, shares, land, holiday home (eg £500.00)
Yes No"

we were planning on 12 months x400.00 rent = which only brings us to 4,800, and then 3-4000 for a car so we are no where near the 16,000 limit.

We would be claiming Income Based Support. The calculator is very helpful!!!

nun Aug 9th 2013 2:09 am

Re: Considering moving back to the UK from US after 10 years
 
If you have been resident in the US for the last ten years make sure you understand your US tax and immigration status. If you do nothing you will continue to be liable for US taxes. I assume you have green cards and at some point the INS will revoke them if you no longer live in the US. You can file form 8854 with the IRS and form I-407 with INS to inform them of your intention to expatriate.....but be careful once the green card is gone it will be difficult to get another.

Faiythe Aug 9th 2013 2:30 am

Re: Considering moving back to the UK from US after 10 years
 
I was thinking we would file our taxes in 2014 and then probably leave early in that year. I wasn't thinking we would need to file any taxes in 2015. Is there an issue if we leave and don't notify the IRS? We have no intention of going back to the US so the revocation of a green card wouldn't be an issue.

penguinsix Aug 9th 2013 2:39 am

Re: Considering moving back to the UK from US after 10 years
 
If you have had a Green Card for more than 8 years, there is a form you need to file with the IRS. You also should file a form to formally surrender your Green Card (which can be done at the US embassy).

Abandonment of Green Card
http://london.usembassy.gov/dhs/uscis/abandon.html

Green Card Taxes, Form 8854
http://www.visataxes.com/Green-Card-Taxes.php

While you have "no intention" of returning, you might want to think about this in a bit more detail. There are some who have returned only to discover that things didn't work out quite as they had hoped. If you don't foresee the tax issues being too onerous, you might consider applying for a re-entry permit on the Green Card which would give you another year or two to be overseas with the right to return if things don't work out as planned.

Basically, keeping your options open might be worthwhile.

nun Aug 9th 2013 2:40 am

Re: Considering moving back to the UK from US after 10 years
 

Originally Posted by Faiythe (Post 10841944)
I was thinking we would file our taxes in 2014 and then probably leave early in that year. I wasn't thinking we would need to file any taxes in 2015. Is there an issue if we leave and don't notify the IRS? We have no intention of going back to the US so the revocation of a green card wouldn't be an issue.

The IRS will consider you to be US tax resident until you file form 8854 and if your intention is to give up the green card you should file I-407 with the INS. Doing nothing will leave you open to US taxation.

nun Aug 9th 2013 2:41 am

Re: Considering moving back to the UK from US after 10 years
 

Originally Posted by penguinsix (Post 10841952)
If you have had a Green Card for more than 8 years, there is a form you need to file with the IRS. You also should file a form to formally surrender your Green Card (which can be done at the US embassy).

Abandonment of Green Card
http://london.usembassy.gov/dhs/uscis/abandon.html

Green Card Taxes, Form 8854
http://www.visataxes.com/Green-Card-Taxes.php

While you have "no intention" of returning, you might want to think about this in a bit more detail. There are some who have returned only to discover that things didn't work out quite as they had hoped. If you don't foresee the tax issues being too onerous, you might consider applying for a re-entry permit on the Green Card which would give you another year or two to be overseas with the right to return if things don't work out as planned.

Basically, keeping your options open might be worthwhile.

Good advice!

Sally Redux Aug 9th 2013 2:41 am

Re: Considering moving back to the UK from US after 10 years
 
What's the big rush?

Faiythe Aug 9th 2013 3:22 am

Re: Considering moving back to the UK from US after 10 years
 

Originally Posted by nun (Post 10841953)
. Doing nothing will leave you open to US taxation.

I'm sorry, I don't understand this part. Leave me open to taxation on what. exactly?

BTW thank you all for taking time to respond, it's been really helpful.

Faiythe Aug 9th 2013 3:23 am

Re: Considering moving back to the UK from US after 10 years
 

Originally Posted by Sally Redux (Post 10841957)
What's the big rush?

Just that my parents are 70 next year, not in great health, and I visited in June and am all too aware that time is passing :unsure:

Sally Redux Aug 9th 2013 3:59 am

Re: Considering moving back to the UK from US after 10 years
 

Originally Posted by Faiythe (Post 10841984)
Just that my parents are 70 next year, not in great health, and I visited in June and am all too aware that time is passing :unsure:

Rushing back to no jobs or accommodation doesn't seem like a good way to help them though.

Faiythe Aug 9th 2013 4:13 am

Re: Considering moving back to the UK from US after 10 years
 
Thank you for your comments.

Can you give me any advice on how to secure an office job from the US? I was thinking of registering with temp agencies as soon as I get back, because I do not think they will be able to line anything up from over here. The sort of work I would be looking for, basically office work, is not something that a company is going to hold open until I can get there and start in a month.

I would also be reluctant to try to secure accommodations without viewing the property/area, so I was thinking it would be better to wait until we arrived to sort that out.

Like I said before, we are aiming to try to get enough money together to get us through a years rent and at least 2 months living expenses.


I've lived in the US for 10 years now, and I used to think "How can I give up all these things I have?" and now I find myself looking around and thinking "its all just STUFF that can be replaced" and people and time can not be replaced. We might not have many more years left, and I just feel as though it would be better to be there to help them, than to be stuck thousands of miles away.

Sally Redux Aug 9th 2013 4:27 am

Re: Considering moving back to the UK from US after 10 years
 
I don't know, but it just sounds very hasty, unless you feel your parents are really at death's door. I'm not sure you could really present yourself as homeless if you have intentionally given up jobs and a home. Keep saving and set up some short-term accommodation from the US? I think a number of people on this forum have done that when they moved back. WhoFan as I remember had some good information on job centre help if you look up her threads.

robin1234 Aug 9th 2013 12:42 pm

Re: Considering moving back to the UK from US after 10 years
 

Originally Posted by Faiythe (Post 10842019)
Thank you for your comments.

Can you give me any advice on how to secure an office job from the US? I was thinking of registering with temp agencies as soon as I get back, because I do not think they will be able to line anything up from over here. The sort of work I would be looking for, basically office work, is not something that a company is going to hold open until I can get there and start in a month.

I would also be reluctant to try to secure accommodations without viewing the property/area, so I was thinking it would be better to wait until we arrived to sort that out.

Like I said before, we are aiming to try to get enough money together to get us through a years rent and at least 2 months living expenses.


I've lived in the US for 10 years now, and I used to think "How can I give up all these things I have?" and now I find myself looking around and thinking "its all just STUFF that can be replaced" and people and time can not be replaced. We might not have many more years left, and I just feel as though it would be better to be there to help them, than to be stuck thousands of miles away.

I agree with all the points you make here. I've arrived "cold" in the US twice and in the UK once, no job, no housing, very little money, and each time have soon got low wage employment (whatever it takes) and been able to move out of parents/siblings spare room or basement within six weeks. Hell, couch surfing is not enjoyable for them or for us! As you say, getting an appropriate rental and a better job is something you can do more effectively when you are nearby.

nun Aug 9th 2013 12:44 pm

Re: Considering moving back to the UK from US after 10 years
 

Originally Posted by Faiythe (Post 10841983)
I'm sorry, I don't understand this part. Leave me open to taxation on what. exactly?

BTW thank you all for taking time to respond, it's been really helpful.

As a green card holder the US will tax you on your worldwide income. There is a double taxation treaty in place that prevents you from being taxed twice, ie by the US and the UK, but you will probably have to file a US tax return to make sure you are paying the correct amounts to each country. US tax payers who live in the UK usually end up paying little to no tax in the US because of the UK's higher tax rates. But if you get UK benefits that are free of UK tax those would be fully taxable by the US........that's if you keep the green card.

penguinsix Aug 9th 2013 11:59 pm

Re: Considering moving back to the UK from US after 10 years
 

Originally Posted by Faiythe (Post 10841983)
I'm sorry, I don't understand this part. Leave me open to taxation on what. exactly?

BTW thank you all for taking time to respond, it's been really helpful.

As a Green Card holder your are required to pay tax on income you receive ANYWHERE in the world. You make £10 an hour at Tesco in Essex for a few weeks while still holding a Green Card, you have a US tax owed on that £10.

Now, with the tax treaty that exists, and with exclusions and other bits for Americans (and Green Card holders) living overseas, you actually don't have to "pay" any US tax on that. It's basically -$0- owed. But you still have to file a US tax return every year you hold a Green Card until you formally surrender it to the US government and file the necessary immigration and tax forms to declare "I am no longer resident".

So that's the issue--keep the Green Card alive by filing for a re-entry permit valid for a couple of years, and then go through the yearly process of filing and claiming the deductions for US taxes -OR- formally surrender your Green Card, fill out the US tax form saying 'hasta la vista' and be done with all the paperwork requirements, but then have to jump through hoops if you want to return to the USA one day.

Faiythe Aug 10th 2013 1:51 am

Re: Considering moving back to the UK from US after 10 years
 
Something to ponder, for sure. Thank you :)

Bitzi Aug 17th 2013 8:22 am

Re: Considering moving back to the UK from US after 10 years
 

Originally Posted by Faiythe (Post 10842019)
Thank you for your comments.
I've lived in the US for 10 years now, and I used to think "How can I give up all these things I have?" and now I find myself looking around and thinking "its all just STUFF that can be replaced" and people and time can not be replaced. We might not have many more years left, and I just feel as though it would be better to be there to help them, than to be stuck thousands of miles away.

Hello again, I just found your posts... As you know we're in similar situations and your comment really struck a cord with me. Whilst living in the US my mum who was in the UK suddenly became ill and sadly died quite quickly. Fortunately I was able to fly back in time to spend some time with her but it was too brief. I then flew back again for the funeral and spent time in her house sorting out her belongings and you're right, it is just stuff. I gave away what I could and a lot unfortunately just got thrown away. It completely changed my outlook on all my possessions, the things I cling onto etc.

I soon am returning back to the UK and even with my new perspective on "stuff" am having a hard time letting go of it. Thank you for your post, reading that "people and time cannot be replaced" gave me such a lump in my throat. It's going to be hard going back and there will be a time where we are in shock and grieve for the life we had in the US. BUT stay strong, follow your heart and good luck :starsmile:


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