Macca67

I've never stated a case either way. All I've ever discussed are constructs used to support alternative theories in an open debate. It's all about keeping an open mind.


I did not say there was a creator. I implied there was a Philosophical Conundrum at odds with the scientific theory. Ask yourself - what is a natural phenomenon? It simply means something not produced by human involvement. So that would explain Lightning, Water, Volcanoes, thunderstorms etc, etc, all of which can be explained through changes in chemical structure, interraction with external forces or the bonding of elements. What you have to ask yourself is how did they first get there?

Not all follwers of ID are bible-bashers. Some maintain a secular stance. However, you seem hell-bent on ever even contemplating the idea of a God. So, what proof do you have against the existence of God - Physics, Chemistry, Mathematics, Photos, Videos. Please explain?

Let me also tell you that I once read a theory that basically states the entire Universe is nothing more than a cell in the arm of some giant being. Now. Wouldn't that be a thing? And I swear I was not on any drugs at the time!

cindyabs

Horton Hears a Who.

Optimus Prime

You case is the idea that we should keep an open mind about there being a creator and to me it's like saying we should keep an open mind about there being a toothfairy.

Did it occur to anyone that maybe such a conundrum exists because science, as advanced as we think it is, is still way to far in the dark ages to explain the conundrum. That when it does explain it there might actually be a perfectly logical answer that is totally unrelated to their being any form of intelligent design?

Oh I see, because you can't convince me of there being a possibility of the existence of God, in order to prove your point I have to prove the non existence of a God?

I could mention that for starters he's never shown his face to a living mortal. Pretty much everything attributed to him has not one shred of scientific proof.
Prayers of the faithful go unanswered in the vast majority of cases simply because most humans only pray when they're in the shit and actually need God's help. If he existed why didn't he guide them from the shit or atleast answer the prayers and get them out of it?
The existence of cancers, AID's, heart disease, TB, Ebola etc etc go some way to proving that if there was an all caring God he's not got his eye on the ball.
I expect your reply to that being along the lines of "Ahh but that's all part of his masterplan" (Of which I'm suprised you've been made privy to) or a reason explaining why in the long term those bad things some mortals suffer are a good thing in the long term when we get our reward in heaven.
Ultimately, it's not up to me to prove the non existence of God, he's doing a fantastic enough job of that as it is. It's up to God to prove his existence to me. Having a run of good luck doesn't prove his existence, however, seeing as he is supposed to be an all compassionate God, having a run of bad luck kinda confirms that he's done a Lord Lucan.


I thought it was an atom under the giants fingernail, read the same thing somewhere once. Of course you weren't on any drugs... the author was the one on drugs.

Macca67

An open mind is a good thing.

At least you now recognise there is a conundrum. Why it exists? I don't know, and until it's proved/disproved it will remain as such, and by implication still possesses more than one solution.

I've never tried to convince you either way, because I'm not taking a definitive stance. As I keep stressing - my mind is open and I've stated arguments as to why that's the case. You, however are convinced there is no other explanation than the big bang and evolution, a dogma the Church in the 16th c. would be proud of.

Now your'e just being ridiculous. Everyone knows God is a She.


There you go. Back to organised religion again

I could also say what about charity, generosity, kindness, altruism, medical advancements - antibiotics have saved millions.

Maybe He - sorry She is bored. Like any number of creator's once the work is complete they move on to something else. The Universe is a big place you know!

Yet again, back you go to organised religion. I have never said said there is a link between a possible creator and religion.

Explain? What exactly is it that He is doing?

Sheesh! Not again with the biblical/organised religion stuff. Are you sure you're not a closet bible-basher?

Optimus Prime

FFS. The whole ethos of this thread is regarding the existence of God and the Catholic church (look at the thread title) and you keep rolling your eyes and asking why I keep mentioning religion.

You call him a creator, others call him God. That is why I repeatedly mention the word "God" and the subject of religion.

Im sticking to the topic.

Macca67

No. Not FFS. The thread was originally about the Angels & Demons movie - which I've still not been to see.

Optimus Prime

Which is a movie about religion and relating to the existence of God!

Macca67

Come on now!.. The thread, like your precious Mr. Drawin's theory evolved into a much more detailed structure. Don't go scurrying back to the beginning because you've run out of responses. For a man of your obvious intelligence that's way below par.

Anyway. I'm bored now. Wanna discuss something else?

Optimus Prime

I didnt go scurrying back, you asked why I kept mentioning God and religion after obviously forgetting what the whole thread was about.

and his name was "Darwin".

Lover not a fighter

Bloody hell!

I didn't come on the site for intelligent conversation. This is America people. This is the most intelligent thing I've read in 2 years.

Now I'm homesick and its you 2 bastard's fault. I'll let you off if you arrange for the Times and the Observer to arrive at my house first thing on sunday morning. Preferably with smoked back bacon and tomato sausages.

Lover not a fighter

I thought the messiah was kevin keegan.

Ash UK/US

The reason I posted the thread and titled it 'To the Catholics on this board' is because having being raised catholic (non practising now) I had little idea about the secret societies that evolved from the catholic religion. Obviously most of the movie is Hollywood hype however I have since learned that a lot of the underlying story is based on true facts.

tamms_1965

I just started reading The Great Influenza by John Barry.

Macca67

I thought you mentioned in an earlier post you had raised your arguments above this?

No need to be pedantic?

Optimus Prime

No. I think that was your tac not mine.