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Can I claim an Aussie pension in the UK?

Can I claim an Aussie pension in the UK?

Old Jan 28th 2015, 4:56 am
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Default Can I claim an Aussie pension in the UK?

Greetings.

I am a British expat currently living in Cairns who is giving serious consideration to moving back to the UK. Naturally, I need to consider the financial implications of doing so; not least pensions.

As I understand it, the reciprocal agreement with the UK over Aussie pensions expired in 2001. This in effect implies to me at least that I cannot claim any Aussie pension due to me whilst living in the UK. If true, this more than anything would put a serious dent in any financial plans I would have to make this move and clearly a lot hinges on my pension entitlements.

I am aware of the ten year rule for pension qualification. I wouldn't move anywhere before then anyway. Also I am an Aussie citizen, so remaining in Aus isn't an issue, technically or financially speaking, just emotionally...

I may have this wrong of course, hence why I came here in the hope that folks here would be able to shed some light on the matter and perhaps offer any practicable working solutions. Any help would be much appreciated!
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Old Jan 28th 2015, 2:05 pm
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Default Re: Can I claim an Aussie pension in the UK?

Originally Posted by Chowchilla
Greetings.

I am a British expat currently living in Cairns who is giving serious consideration to moving back to the UK. Naturally, I need to consider the financial implications of doing so; not least pensions.

As I understand it, the reciprocal agreement with the UK over Aussie pensions expired in 2001. This in effect implies to me at least that I cannot claim any Aussie pension due to me whilst living in the UK. If true, this more than anything would put a serious dent in any financial plans I would have to make this move and clearly a lot hinges on my pension entitlements.

I am aware of the ten year rule for pension qualification. I wouldn't move anywhere before then anyway. Also I am an Aussie citizen, so remaining in Aus isn't an issue, technically or financially speaking, just emotionally...

I may have this wrong of course, hence why I came here in the hope that folks here would be able to shed some light on the matter and perhaps offer any practicable working solutions. Any help would be much appreciated!
They cannot stop you from getting paid an Oz pension. However, as a UK tax resident you would have to declare any Oz income. It would be foreign income.
Reading this BE forum UK Pension Transfers, Home Loans and Financial Advice indicates that there are more tax issues on pensions than in Oz.
Why don't you post on that forum where they may be more aware of the differences.
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Old Jan 28th 2015, 2:10 pm
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Default Re: Can I claim an Aussie pension in the UK?

Originally Posted by Chowchilla
Greetings.

I am a British expat currently living in Cairns who is giving serious consideration to moving back to the UK. Naturally, I need to consider the financial implications of doing so; not least pensions.

As I understand it, the reciprocal agreement with the UK over Aussie pensions expired in 2001. This in effect implies to me at least that I cannot claim any Aussie pension due to me whilst living in the UK. If true, this more than anything would put a serious dent in any financial plans I would have to make this move and clearly a lot hinges on my pension entitlements.

I am aware of the ten year rule for pension qualification. I wouldn't move anywhere before then anyway. Also I am an Aussie citizen, so remaining in Aus isn't an issue, technically or financially speaking, just emotionally...

I may have this wrong of course, hence why I came here in the hope that folks here would be able to shed some light on the matter and perhaps offer any practicable working solutions. Any help would be much appreciated!
You can't claim an age pension from overseas, as you have to be living in Australia on the day you lodge your claim. However, the age pension is currently portable, which means you can continue to receive it if you move after it's granted.

Centrelink (Dept of Human Services) advises that the amount of age pension people receive may reduce if they move overseas, but don't provide any further info of that on their web site - in my opinion, this would only apply if there was a reciprocal agreement in place between Oz and the country moved to, and as you correctly point out there's no longer an Oz/Uk SS reciprocal agreement. Of course, any 'extra' pension amount such as pharmaceutical allowance, energy allowance etc etc stops, it's just the basic pension that's portable.

When you're a year or so off becoming eligible to apply for the age pension, ring Centrelink and book a face to face appointment with them. They're pretty good at helping you (legally!) maximize the amount of age pension you'd be eligible for, and will also be able to advise you whether or not your payments would reduce if you move to the UK.

One thing to always bear in mind - governments can and do move the goalposts, so what's true today may not be the case in years to come. Best of luck with your plans.
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Old Jan 28th 2015, 2:14 pm
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Default Re: Can I claim an Aussie pension in the UK?

[QUOTE=cyrian;11547835]They cannot stop you from getting paid an Oz pension. However, as a UK tax resident you would have to declare any Oz income. It would be foreign income.
QUOTE]

The age pension is still portable, but most Oz pensions aren't. For example, the Disability Support Pension used to be fully portable, but the Abbott government has changed that and now only people with the most profound disabilities can continue to receive it after moving overseas.
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Old Jan 28th 2015, 2:25 pm
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Default Re: Can I claim an Aussie pension in the UK?

[QUOTE=spouse of scouse;11547848]
Originally Posted by cyrian
They cannot stop you from getting paid an Oz pension. However, as a UK tax resident you would have to declare any Oz income. It would be foreign income.
QUOTE]

The age pension is still portable, but most Oz pensions aren't. For example, the Disability Support Pension used to be fully portable, but the Abbott government has changed that and now only people with the most profound disabilities can continue to receive it after moving overseas.
Sorry, I was looking at it from a UK point of view on either State or occupational pensions.
In the UK, we have DLA = disability living allowance - it isn't called a pension it is an allowance paid to qualifying residents. Some components are means-tested and some aren't.
Interesting that you cannot claim the Oz pension after you leave. I know a lot of expats who would be annoyed if that was the case for the UK pension.
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Old Jan 28th 2015, 3:54 pm
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Default Re: Can I claim an Aussie pension in the UK?

I received the Australian Age Pension while I lived there, and it continued when I moved to the UK. However it is only the basic pension, all added allowances are denied. Be aware that it is subject to exchange rates, mine has dropped a lot because of this.

My pension was also considerably reduced until I bought property, yet it would have been better for me to rent.

Chowchilla I suggest you contact Centrelink to discuss your options and obligations.
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Old Jan 28th 2015, 4:11 pm
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Default Re: Can I claim an Aussie pension in the UK?

Thank you for all your replies! Currently on a busy night shift so will give a detailed response once I've finished work and had some sleep.
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Old Jan 29th 2015, 9:36 am
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Default Re: Can I claim an Aussie pension in the UK?

Hi, was hoping to give a more considered response by now but had an exhausting night shift and slept right through- rushing out to work again now. It's not normally this bad! Also, supporting a friend whose Mum is really sick right now- so sorry, this is such bad timing- will try and give a response tomorrow evening.

Thank you once again for all your responses!
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Old Jan 30th 2015, 1:52 am
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Default Re: Can I claim an Aussie pension in the UK?

Originally Posted by Chowchilla
Greetings.

I am a British expat currently living in Cairns who is giving serious consideration to moving back to the UK. Naturally, I need to consider the financial implications of doing so; not least pensions.

As I understand it, the reciprocal agreement with the UK over Aussie pensions expired in 2001. This in effect implies to me at least that I cannot claim any Aussie pension due to me whilst living in the UK. If true, this more than anything would put a serious dent in any financial plans I would have to make this move and clearly a lot hinges on my pension entitlements.
The end of the social security agreement in 2001 isn't as big a deal as it may appear. If you already have 10 years residence in Australia it doesn't really affect you, as far as I know.

Also note, the Australian age pension is means tested.

Others have noted that if you start claiming the age pension and then move outside Australia you can keep it. Perhaps verify with Centrelink. Although be aware that rules can change anytime.

Probably more relevant to you is that it appears that while superannuation payments in Australia receive concessional tax treatment, this would not be applied by the U.K. tax authorities if you were to become tax resident in the United Kingdom.
http://britishexpats.com/forum/movin...ent-uk-850849/

Also consider, if you move back to the United Kingdom, if you had a U.K. domicile in the past and have lost it (usually a good thing), then moving back may cause you to re-acquire legal/tax domicile. Which, in turn, brings your worldwide estate into the scope of Inheritance Tax - may or may not be a problem.
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Old Jan 30th 2015, 7:15 am
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Default Re: Can I claim an Aussie pension in the UK?

OK thanks for all the advice. I'm afraid I'm as confused as before and still none the wiser as to whether I can claim an Aussie pension down the line if living in the UK. Some of you may have spelled that out, but if so, it's gone right over my head I'm afraid...

I will however take the advice to speak to Centrelink and see if it's any clearer then.

Thank you all once again.
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Old Jan 30th 2015, 7:34 am
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Default Re: Can I claim an Aussie pension in the UK?

Originally Posted by Chowchilla
OK thanks for all the advice. I'm afraid I'm as confused as before and still none the wiser as to whether I can claim an Aussie pension down the line if living in the UK. Some of you may have spelled that out, but if so, it's gone right over my head I'm afraid...

I will however take the advice to speak to Centrelink and see if it's any clearer then.

Thank you all once again.
You can claim it as long as you are living in Aus at the time you become eligible. If you have already moved back, you can't claim it.
If you then move back AFTER the initial claim it can be paid to you in the UK.
Unlike the UK pension, its means tested.

Thats just the basic facts, current (from Centrelink) as of this week.
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Old Jan 30th 2015, 11:49 am
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Default Re: Can I claim an Aussie pension in the UK?

Thank you Pollyanna that's what I suspected... I wonder if a 'get around' would be to return to Aus approaching retirement or is that stretching the point of credibility... I'll be taking further advice for sure.
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Old Jan 30th 2015, 12:03 pm
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Default Re: Can I claim an Aussie pension in the UK?

Originally Posted by Chowchilla
Thank you Pollyanna that's what I suspected... I wonder if a 'get around' would be to return to Aus approaching retirement or is that stretching the point of credibility... I'll be taking further advice for sure.
The only way that would work is if you could prove you'd moved back to Australia permanently, and you really do need to prove it.

I'm Australian, 56, and have lived and worked here all my life. I'm emigrating to the UK with my dual citizen husband, and have accepted that I won't be able to claim or receive an Oz pension. It's fair enough - the Australian age pension is a means based/welfare payment, totally unlike the UK basic State pension.
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Old Jan 30th 2015, 12:11 pm
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Default Re: Can I claim an Aussie pension in the UK?

My primary concern is having money on retirement. I'm pretty sure I'll get virtually nothing from a UK pension at this stage as I've moved around. I don't mind relinquishing my Aussie pension so long as I have something to live on from some source or other...
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Old Jan 30th 2015, 12:13 pm
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Default Re: Can I claim an Aussie pension in the UK?

[QUOTE=JAJ;11549863]The end of the social security agreement in 2001 isn't as big a deal as it may appear. If you already have 10 years residence in Australia it doesn't really affect you, as far as I know.
QUOTE]

It doesn't affect eligibility to apply for an age pension, but it affects the amount you'll receive. Under a reciprocal SS agreement, each country agrees to index the amount of pension paid to its expats, to at least the minimum pension paid to the other country's citizens.

Australia abandoned the agreement because the UK government ceased indexing the State pensions of its expats living in Australia - the pension they left the UK with was the same amount they'd receive forevermore. This meant that the Oz government had to 'top up' the UK pensions so that the expats received at least the minimum Australian age pension amount.

The Australian government continued to index the age pensions of Aussie expats living in the UK while attempting to negotiate a resolution with the UK government. I believe negotiations continued for several years until the Oz government said 'stuff ya'. There is still a double taxation treaty in place between the two countries, and a reciprocal health agreement.
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