Londonuck

Surely Britain is always going to be more attractive to live in than Lagos or Mogadishu. And isnt that down to the so called benefits they think they receive here and dont get in many other countries in Europe?

Personally, i dont believe they get houses, money and jobs on a plate.

Jules Europe

There have been a couple of threads on this forum some time ago now, where it was proven with reputable links that foreigners (often refugees) actually get a better deal in some other European countries than they would do in the UK. It was largely felt that they went to the UK because of language reasons and a more vibrant economy, the vibrant economy wouldn`t hold true now though.

I`ve spent reasonable amounts of time in France, Belgium, Holland, Germany, Switzerland, Sweden etc and I would say the percentage of immigrants in these countries in relation to the indigenous population is no less than somebody would find in the UK.

Bevm

I was saying that there was no way to tell from the article. I'll have a look at the actual study.

And I did say it could be accurate in some ways for some people. The UK isn't perfect. Canada isn't perfect. What suits one doesn't suit another. What suits any of us at one time might not at another.

Bev

Bevm

Thanks for posting the source of the article, Aviator. I haven't found the detailed breakdown of the people in the survey yet, but clearly it's world wide and, I assume, generally wealthier people.

From what I've seen so far it mirrors a lot of what we read here. The externals such as housing and commute tend to be better in the countries people go to, probably because that's a big part of why they go. But social life is the problem and generally perceived to be better in the UK, and we see here that some people realize too late that that's a price they're paying for the other stuff.

"The general downside of expat life was revealed to be the social scene. More than a third of expats reported a decline in the quality of entertainment available and their social life in general. The US came last in this area, with 40% of expats admitting that their social lives had got worse since moving to the country. However, it’s not all doom and gloom. Hong Kong came out as the social capital of the world, with approximately half (49%) of expats agreeing the quality of their social lives had improved. The UK tops the charts for entertainment: 58% of expats noted an increase in the quality of entertainment since moving to the UK. Interestingly, 70% of expats aged 55 or over agree that the quality of their social lives had improved significantly since becoming an expat."

Just picking up a bulleted list --
If you want better housing, go to Canada.
If you want better health care, go to France, Belgium, or Switzerland.
To pursue your hobbies (whatever that means) go to South Africa or Canada.
The food's better in France and Japan.
For schooling and childcare, go to Malaysia or Japan.
For good transport go to Switzerland or Hong Kong. (Not far to get around in Hong Kong!)
For family life, go to Switzerland or Canada.
For working hours, go to Bahrain(!) Netherlands or Germany.
For entertainment go to (or stay in) the UK,Thailand, or the US.

I note, "Canada, which scored top in terms of integration for the 2008 survey, emerged as one of the easiest places for expats to make local friends and where expats had joined community groups."

I'd say that's probably true, if only because it's easier to find local and specialized groups in Canada. Local government and libraries generally produce lists.

The UK scores badly on accomodation and commuting, but I wonder if that's because a lot of these particular immigrants are moving to London, where housing is so expensive and commuting horrendous. That's true, but isn't necessarily representative of the country.

Just some impressions from a quick glance. And it confirms that the article was misleading.

Bev

Jules Europe

The article as you say, seems to be focused on wealthier people and professionals, mostly expats from first world countries (hence the source of the survey) Their main causes of concern, seem to be things such as social life, schooling for their children and lifestyle, as opposed to crime levels, security and poor working conditions etc. All the things that would more likely affect your average immigrant.

I don`t think London is unique in what you have stated above. Sure....its housing is expensive and the commute times are horrendous, but any major world city is going to have the same issues and major world cities are where most of these expats will be based anyway.

Aviator

As the report was done for or by an international bank we could safely assume that it is based on people with liquid assets. Could not see where it gave the income bands or where the people surveyed lived.

Obviously you are not that familiar with the UK, many of the wealthier people who work in London, don't actually live in London. This is why the prices of property in the Home Counties has shot up so much over the past few decades.

Jules Europe

I`m actually very familiar with the UK especially the London region, which is why I know that house prices in parts of Surrey, Kent, Herts and Bucks are sky high and not much cheaper than some of the London postcodes. More and more people are even commuting further afield to places such as Reading, Bedford and the south coast to name just a few and still commuting to London. I know this, as English friends of mine with fairly decent jobs have done this over the years.

Aviator

I know this because I know someone who did it is not quite the same as knowing it because you've experienced it though. An expert because you know someone who knows someone

iaink

The survey seemed to accurately reflect my observations on the UK and Canada, with the UK strong on entertainment, shopping etc, but weak on work life balance, commute times and property costs, Canada strong on better housing, having interests outside work and the accepting nature of the locals.

My Dad lives near Bedford. I dont consider it cheap, not even close compared to where I am in Canada anyway.

Cant really comment on other areas, but I thought it was a decent thought provoking study that reflected general strengths and weaknesses.

Jules Europe

I`ve certainly experienced London commute times and when I was UK based actually considered buying in the UK (London area) So I am familiar with what`s involved, not that major cities are too different in this respect. Who mentioned anything about being an expert on London and the home counties Just applying my knowledge of when I lived there, like most people do when they lived in an area.

I`m sure you could give some knowledge out, on the part of Canada that you live in and depending on how much time you`ve been away from the UK, some knowledge of your neck of the woods there as well, even if its not up to date. You don`t have to be an expert to achieve that.

Jules Europe

Bedford is cheap compared to London, but probably expensive compared to the part of Canada that you live in. Bedford is cheap compared to where I live and Canada a lot cheaper still.

MartynK

True, but the survey was about expats, not immigrants, and we can also forget all the noise about immigrants queuing up to get into the UK and claim benefits. That's a different topic.

Some expats become long term residents in their new countries, but they're in a different psychological space from most of the immigrants on these forums, let alone economic migrants and "asylum seekers". Most of them regard it as a deployment or a posting, not a new home. I did a lot of personal security consulting with expats in SA - mainly from the US and the UK - and they seem to earn far more than local hires, once you factor in all the allowances and expenses. Many of the expats surveyed returned to their own countries annually, which is often part of their package, and they usually get all their relocation costs in both directions.

Ciderman

Doesn't put me off in the slightest from returning to life in the UK- 11 days 'til we fly back now. Experience has taught me that no place is perfect and the blend of good/bad is different for everyone.

Someone's already mentioned the "lies, dam lies and statistics" quote and that's very apt. Stats don't tell the true story- if I'd payed attention to the billions of statistics on Canada 6 years ago I would never have emmigrated.

So been there, done that, read the book, seen the film and bought the T-shirt but still prefer the UK edition personally. Wonder what the stats are on the percentage of Brit emmigrants who are returning to the UK but I'm not that curious to go search for it...rather eat a plate of fish & chips

iaink

Its in the study! (not the edited highlights in the Telegraph)

Jules Europe

On this forum, there has also been references on what actually constitutes an expat and what constitutes an immigrant. Most who consider themselves immigrants on here, are unlikely to be queuing up and claiming benefits in the country of their choice. For this reason, the word immigrant covers a very wide range of people.