Britain Day ??

Old Jun 13th 2007, 3:15 am
  #46  
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Default Re: Britain Day ??

Originally Posted by adiestubbs
Scots will prob not be interested in Britain day because a majority of them do not consider themselves to be British, but scottish and scottish only.
Your insight into the Scottish nation is impressive. No-one would deny the sense of Scottish nationhood, but if what you said is remotely true why do a majority vote for Unionist parties?

Except for Rangers games, you will find few Union flags north of the border.
And how many Union flags do you see south of the border?

Perhaps the English are narrow-minded and consider England/Britain to be the same thing. However, England is 90% of the population
You'll find England closer to 80% than 90%, after you consider Wales and Northern Ireland.

and has also pretty much all the wealth.
Which is if you think about it a rather crass comment. The oil is mainly in Scotland, for starters. And that's before you consider other leading Scottish industries - banking, insurance, distilling to name but three.


In fact, most english couldn't care less about Scotland, whether in political or sporting terms. There is certainly a growing "let em go their own way, and pay for it themselves" attitude emerging.
Many Canadians thought that (rather idly) about Quebec until they woke up one day in October 1995 and realised their country was within a week of a break-up.
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Old Jun 13th 2007, 6:02 pm
  #47  
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Default Re: Britain Day ??

Your insight into the Scottish nation is impressive. No-one would deny the sense of Scottish nationhood, but if what you said is remotely true why do a majority vote for Unionist parties?
Admittidly my insight merely comes from living in th UK (watching media etc) and having talked to Scottish people at uni/work etc. But that doesnt make it "remotely untrue".

Interesting that the one party that proudly proclaims the defence of the union the "Conservative and Unionist Party" got 16 seats and the one party that shouts loudest for independance, the SNP, got 47. Labour and Libdem are both pro-union, but they do tend to keep quiet about it and try to keep the argument on other issues. You wont see union flags at their scottish party conferences, thats for sure.

And how many Union flags do you see south of the border?
Lots. Most town halls, hotels, castles, other public buildings etc you will still find the union rather than st georges flag.


You'll find England closer to 80% than 90%, after you consider Wales and Northern Ireland.
4 out of 5 is still a large majority.

Which is if you think about it a rather crass comment. The oil is mainly in Scotland, for starters. And that's before you consider other leading Scottish industries - banking, insurance, distilling to name but three.
RE; England having most of the wealth.

The strength of the UK economy varies from region to region. GDP, and GDP per capita is highest in London. The following table shows the GDP (2004) per capita of the 12 NUTS:2 areas, with data supplied by Eurostat.

Rank Place GDP per capita
in Euros

1 London, England 44 401
2 South East England 31 300
3 East of England 27 778
4 Scotland 27 669
5 South West England 27 348
6 East Midlands, England 26 863
7 West Midlands, England 25 931
8 North West England 25 396
9 Yorkshire and the Humber, England 25 300
10 Northern Ireland 23 319
11 North East England 22 886
12 Wales 22 567

Think this proves that most of the wealth in the UK is within england

Last edited by adiestubbs; Jun 13th 2007 at 6:06 pm.
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Old Jun 13th 2007, 11:58 pm
  #48  
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Default Re: Britain Day ??

Originally Posted by adiestubbs
Interesting that the one party that proudly proclaims the defence of the union the "Conservative and Unionist Party" got 16 seats and the one party that shouts loudest for independance, the SNP, got 47. Labour and Libdem are both pro-union, but they do tend to keep quiet about it and try to keep the argument on other issues. You wont see union flags at their scottish party conferences, thats for sure.
It is true that Unionist political strength in Scotland has dropped since the 1950s. For example, a significant part of the Protestant working class vote has moved from Conservative to SNP.

But this is a whole point of a concept like Britain Day - to encourage Unionism in all parts of the United Kingdom, irrespective of political or religious affiliation. Not every Scot will welcome the idea, for sure, but there are still enough Scottish Unionists left to join in. And it will also help to encourage those who are neutral, rather than surrendering to the forces of Nationalism by default.

And if it doesn't work - at least the idea was tried and there are really no negative consequences following on from it. From the point of view of the outside, what seems telling on this thread is the mood of gloom and despondency that rests over the British psyche. "It won't work" seems to be the kneejerk reaction - as opposed to "let's make it work".

That seems to be the fundamental difference between Britain and Australia - the presence of a sense of national purpose and optimism in Australia that is currently absent in Britain. It doesn't have to be that way in Britain but rubbishing ideas to start creating this sense of national identity is really not a good start.

Which is pretty much where the thread started.

Think this proves that most of the wealth in the UK is within england
Most of the wealth - yes. Like most of the population.
But not "pretty much all the wealth" as you suggest.

Last edited by JAJ; Jun 14th 2007 at 12:17 am.
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Old Jun 14th 2007, 12:37 am
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Default Re: Britain Day ??

Originally Posted by JAJ
That seems to be the fundamental difference between Britain and Australia - the presence of a sense of national purpose and optimism in Australia that is currently absent in Britain.
Can't agree with this myself, but then the world would be a dull place if we all thought the same thing.

Incidentally, can you tell me what the national purpose of Australia is?
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Old Jun 14th 2007, 12:44 am
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Default Re: Britain Day ??

Originally Posted by mackinnon

Incidentally, can you tell me what the national purpose of Australia is?

to annoy the US forum?
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Old Jun 14th 2007, 8:38 am
  #51  
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Default Re: Britain Day ??

Originally Posted by adiestubbs
Think this proves that most of the wealth in the UK is within england
Yes, but most of the population is in England too. Wales doesn't look too healthy on this list, that is true, but Scotland seems to be doing all right (on this basis)...
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Old Jun 14th 2007, 8:50 pm
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Default Re: Britain Day ??

Originally Posted by JAJ
It is true that Unionist political strength in Scotland has dropped since the 1950s. For example, a significant part of the Protestant working class vote has moved from Conservative to SNP.

But this is a whole point of a concept like Britain Day - to encourage Unionism in all parts of the United Kingdom, irrespective of political or religious affiliation. Not every Scot will welcome the idea, for sure, but there are still enough Scottish Unionists left to join in. And it will also help to encourage those who are neutral, rather than surrendering to the forces of Nationalism by default.

And if it doesn't work - at least the idea was tried and there are really no negative consequences following on from it. From the point of view of the outside, what seems telling on this thread is the mood of gloom and despondency that rests over the British psyche. "It won't work" seems to be the kneejerk reaction - as opposed to "let's make it work".

That seems to be the fundamental difference between Britain and Australia - the presence of a sense of national purpose and optimism in Australia that is currently absent in Britain. It doesn't have to be that way in Britain but rubbishing ideas to start creating this sense of national identity is really not a good start.

Which is pretty much where the thread started.



Most of the wealth - yes. Like most of the population.
But not "pretty much all the wealth" as you suggest.
Scotland never wanted a Union with England.
If you learn about the History-"we were bought and sold for english gold-by a parcel of rogues".
England had economic sanctions on Scotland and were sick of us supporting France.
The union is a economic one not a cultural one.Most people vote for Union supporting parties because they are scared they may have a drop in standard of living not because they want to be English.
Perhaps if England had some respect for Scottish culture-maybe have a "Tartan Day" like they have in Oz and US.
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Old Jun 14th 2007, 10:54 pm
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Default Re: Britain Day ??

Originally Posted by mackinnon
Can't agree with this myself, but then the world would be a dull place if we all thought the same thing.

Incidentally, can you tell me what the national purpose of Australia is?
To thrash to poms at everything.
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Old Jun 14th 2007, 11:15 pm
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Default Re: Britain Day ??

Originally Posted by nelsie
Scotland never wanted a Union with England.
If you learn about the History-"we were bought and sold for english gold-by a parcel of rogues".
England had economic sanctions on Scotland and were sick of us supporting France.
The union is a economic one not a cultural one.Most people vote for Union supporting parties because they are scared they may have a drop in standard of living not because they want to be English.
Irrespective of what did or did not happen 300 years ago, the Scots appeared to be quite happy with the Union until the 1970s. And it was never supposed to be a "cultural union" - Scottish law, education and religion have always been distinct from England. As are the banknotes.

As for people voting for pro-Union parties simply because they are scared of a drop in living standards, that's hardly the way a proud nation should behave - is it? (the American Revolutionaries didn't worry about little things like that).

There are many good reasons for Scotland to maintain the Union with England, but lack of confidence over Scotland's ability to choose the path of independence if it wishes is not one of them.
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Old Jun 15th 2007, 7:11 am
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Default Re: Britain Day ??

Originally Posted by JAJ
Irrespective of what did or did not happen 300 years ago, the Scots appeared to be quite happy with the Union until the 1970s. And it was never supposed to be a "cultural union" - Scottish law, education and religion have always been distinct from England. As are the banknotes.

As for people voting for pro-Union parties simply because they are scared of a drop in living standards, that's hardly the way a proud nation should behave - is it? (the American Revolutionaries didn't worry about little things like that).

There are many good reasons for Scotland to maintain the Union with England, but lack of confidence over Scotland's ability to choose the path of independence if it wishes is not one of them.
I don't know.When I was growing up in Scotland the older generation thought of themselves as British because they had had 2 World Wars and had fought for the Empire.The younger people seem to think differently.

Last time I was back there seemed to be more emphasis on Scottishness.Saltire flags everywhere and Scottish flag stickers on most cars.

It will be interesting to see what happens with Alex Salmond (SNP) being First Minister and trying to make political waves at Westminster.It will be especially interesting if the Conservative Party win the next UK General Election because they traditionally have had very poor support in Scotland for the last 25 years or so and I'm not sure the Scots will tolerate a Tory party in power.(I find UK party politics really interesting-so boring in Australia).
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Old Jun 15th 2007, 8:20 am
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Default Re: Britain Day ??

It will be interesting to see what happens with Alex Salmond (SNP) being First Minister and trying to make political waves at Westminster.
Prepare for more stories like this in todays Times, taking particular note of the last sentence!!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1935171.ece
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Old Jun 15th 2007, 9:08 am
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Default Re: Britain Day ??

In 50 years it will probsbly be the islamic republic of the Uk no one will care about whether theres scotish or irish independance.
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Old Jun 15th 2007, 9:14 am
  #58  
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Default Re: Britain Day ??

Originally Posted by ozboy
In 50 years it will probsbly be the islamic republic of the Uk no one will care about whether theres scotish or irish independance.
like most nations of the world the indigenous population has been over taken. look at the history of uk. conquered time and time again. it's actually quite french really isn't it (see william the conqueror or the romans what have they ever done?....
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Old Jun 15th 2007, 9:15 am
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Default Re: Britain Day ??

Originally Posted by ozboy
In 50 years it will probsbly be the islamic republic of the Uk no one will care about whether theres scotish or irish independance.
Its alright for you, you've got beaches to sort it out on!!
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Old Jun 15th 2007, 9:17 am
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Default Re: Britain Day ??

Originally Posted by adiestubbs
Its alright for you, you've got beaches to sort it out on!!
If your going to have race riots its better to have it on some nice beach in OZ then some run down grotty council estate in the uK.
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