Britain Day ??

Old Jun 7th 2007, 4:24 am
  #16  
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Default Re: Britain Day ??

Originally Posted by adiestubbs
[
140 years ago. Wouldnt/couldnt happen again.
The American Civil War ended over 140 years ago, as you say. But the point you should understand is that it then took a long, long time for the Southern states to once again feel part of the same nation as the North.

Anti-U.S. sentiment in the southern states in the decades preceding and following the Civil War was many times stronger than anything prevailing in Scotland today. And decades later, where has it all gone?


Surely no desire for this now.
[In reference to Western Australia secession].

Precisely. And much of that is due to the efforts of successive Australian governments - both parties - to develop a common Australian identity. The same process that is just beginning in the United Kingdom.

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Old Jun 7th 2007, 4:38 am
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Default Re: Britain Day ??

Precisely. And much of that is due to the efforts of successive Australian governments - both parties - to develop a common Australian identity. The same process that is just beginning in the United Kingdom
Well, i hope that it is possible. However, i believe forming a common identity is much easier in "newer" nations such as Australia, then between the english, scots and welsh where there is much history, alot of it not that positive!
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Old Jun 7th 2007, 11:14 pm
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Default Re: Britain Day ??

Sounds like a good idea to me .We were shocked that the Golden jubilee wasnt celebrated near us,i'm old enough to remember the silver jubilee when we all had street parties,up for weeks making the bunting !!

yep i remember the street parties we had for the silver jubilee. Unfortunately properly wouldnt be allowed now due to risk assessments and insurance.

Does any one else think its a good idea?
Does any one care??

only those in power who properly would never allow a 'britain day' to happen as it may offened those of non british descent im afraid.

i wish more people would emigrate ,then they might view the UK thru fresh eyes.

certainly did when i went back to UK. Unfortunately nothing had changed it just made me appreciate more the new life we had started.
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Old Jun 8th 2007, 12:13 am
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Default Re: Britain Day ??

Originally Posted by jempee
yep i remember the street parties we had for the silver jubilee. Unfortunately properly wouldnt be allowed now due to risk assessments and insurance.
Nothing stopping you having one every day if you feel like it. But people in many urban areas in Britain don't know their near neighbours, and often don't like the ones they do get to know.

only those in power who properly would never allow a 'britain day' to happen as it may offened those of non british descent im afraid.
In case you hadn't noticed, the Labour Party (who are in power) are the ones talking about this.
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Old Jun 8th 2007, 1:18 am
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Default Re: Britain Day ??

Very interesting reading ,i dont believe a Britain day would be that popular as the scots and welsh wouldnt be too interested and it would be just a celebration of Englishness .
I personally am in favour of the union and keeping ulster,scotland ,wales,england under the union flag but unless there is a change of government i believe more and more scots will turn to the SNP .
In regards to the ulsterman you wont find a prouder british person walking but their allegiance is flawed as it is aligned to protestant crown ,so hypothetically if catholics where allowed on the throne again their allegiance would be gone and they would seek independance as there is no way the prods of the north who are still the majority [just] would accept the papist based dublin government .
Its seems quite strange to me that that despot Thatcher was better for britain as a nation as she was a true unionist and a believer in britian .
Unfortunately with the poll tax try out in scotland first and degradation of some of the major cities in the uk as awhole she didnt do herself any favours especially in scotland .
The problem is with scotland is it needs good old fashioned Labour values[IE for the worker ]mixed in with some of the conservative values of unionism, then you might see some of the scots being at least a little proud of what is british.
I belive tony blair /gordon brown dont give atoss about britain and are quite happy for it to disintegrate after all we will all be united under the euro flag ,so nothing will change .
From a personal point of view i am very much in favour of pulling out of europe and for us to start looking after our own minoritys within the isles of britain [ie scots and welsh ,ulstermen ]before we look after the minoritys flooding into the uk everyday .
To some this may seem a racist point of view but i dont see the world as aglobal phenomenon because the point is we arnt the same as others and others arnt the same as us .
The history of isles of britain have grown through fighting with each and this has led to mutual respect between the scots and english,welsh and ulsterman and although we are different in many ways .i have found our similarities bind us together like cousins and this is sometthing i could never feel for pole,frenchie,spaniard etc .
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Old Jun 8th 2007, 1:33 am
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Default Re: Britain Day ??

I returned to the UK for a holiday during the World Cup last year.

In England, everywhere you looked there were St George flags flying.
On the Scottish side of the Border I didn't see any St George flags. I remember going into a Sports Shop and overhearing the Sales Assistant telling a young boy-he was sorry they had sold out of Trinidad and Tobago Shirts!
I was waiting for a plane to Dublin from Edinburgh-plane delayed-packed departure lounge.England scored a goal on the large plasma screen and there was silence and looks of disappointment.

A few weeks later-still in Scotland-I was in a hotel beer garden.England got knocked out-I couldn't believe the noise of the cheering from the bar.

It seems that the younger generation feel more Scottish than the older generation who "lived through the war and fought for the Empire".They still think of themselves as British.
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Old Jun 8th 2007, 1:52 am
  #22  
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Default Re: Britain Day ??

On the Scottish side of the Border I didn't see any St George flags.
Probably because the English in Scotland value their health/property/cars too much!! Newsnight conducted an experiment during the last world cup and drove a car decked out with England flags into Glasgow and parked it up. Got smashed to pieces!!
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Old Jun 8th 2007, 2:10 am
  #23  
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Default Re: Britain Day ??

Originally Posted by nelsie
A few weeks later-still in Scotland-I was in a hotel beer garden.England got knocked out-I couldn't believe the noise of the cheering from the bar.

It seems that the younger generation feel more Scottish than the older generation who "lived through the war and fought for the Empire".They still think of themselves as British.
No self-respecting Scot should be expected to support England, or any other country for that matter.

But cheering for "anything but England" isn't a sign of a Scottish self-respect, but instead a rather pathetic and childish national sense of insecurity.

One has to suspect this is just a noisy minority. If mainstream Scotland really feels this way then why on earth have they not left the United Kingdom long ago?

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Old Jun 8th 2007, 2:19 am
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Default Re: Britain Day ??

Originally Posted by JAJ
No self-respecting Scot should be expected to support England, or any other country for that matter.

But cheering for "anything but England" isn't a sign of a Scottish self-respect, but instead a rather pathetic and childish national sense of insecurity.
I think it must be an english-speaking nation thing. Im sure the Aussies wouldnt support the Kiwis, or the Canadians support the Americans. Prob quite the opposite in fact. But one only has to watch eurovision song contest to see that in Europe, neighbours stick together!!
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Old Jun 8th 2007, 2:23 am
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Default Re: Britain Day ??

If mainstream Scotland really feels this way then why on earth have they not left the United Kingdom long ago?
Barnett formula???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnett_Formula
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Old Jun 8th 2007, 2:25 am
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Default Re: Britain Day ??

Originally Posted by JAJ
But cheering for "anything but England" isn't a sign of a Scottish self-respect, but instead a rather pathetic and childish national sense of insecurity.
EXACTLY.

However, and this is no excuse for it, you get brought up with it. It seems the norm.

In my case it just happens that I woke up & realised that it is indeed pathetic.

I can't talk for the East coast of Scotland, but in my experience in Glasgow when ambivalence is displayed towards anything English it usually has roots based in Irish Nationalism.

I've met a lot of people from Scotland, Ireland & Australia that blame all their country's problems on the English.

But then, these people have usually been inadequate in some way themselves.
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Old Jun 8th 2007, 2:30 am
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Default Re: Britain Day ??

Originally Posted by adiestubbs
I think it must be an english-speaking nation thing. Im sure the Aussies wouldnt support the Kiwis,
I would think that if Australians started cheering for a third country against New Zealand (or vice versa) it would be seen as ridiculous.
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Old Jun 8th 2007, 2:35 am
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Default Re: Britain Day ??

Originally Posted by adiestubbs
Paid for by the oil revenue. But staying part of a nation you profess to hate just for the sake of a small % of government expenditure isn't exactly something to be proud.

It's clear that the United Kingdom cannot continue the way it is. Either in coming decades, Scotland and England (plus Wales etc) will need to forge a new British identity which they can share - as North and South have done in America. Or England and Scotland will need to go their separate ways and build their own national identities.

It is not so clear which path will be chosen in the future. The fact that recent decades have seen a drift towards separatism does not mean that the future will continue this trend.
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Old Jun 8th 2007, 3:48 am
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Default Re: Britain Day ??

Originally Posted by JAJ
No self-respecting Scot should be expected to support England, or any other country for that matter.

But cheering for "anything but England" isn't a sign of a Scottish self-respect, but instead a rather pathetic and childish national sense of insecurity.

One has to suspect this is just a noisy minority. If mainstream Scotland really feels this way then why on earth have they not left the United Kingdom long ago?
I was just sharing my experience of my visit to Scotland.
I was just going to complain to the Moderator that the Scots have been described as "rather pathetic with a childish sense of national identity" but I've realised you are the Moderator.
Nice to know what you think of Scotland.
Why on earth do you want to be British when you think the Scots are pathetic?
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Old Jun 8th 2007, 4:08 am
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Default Re: Britain Day ??

Originally Posted by nelsie
I was just sharing my experience of my visit to Scotland.
I was just going to complain to the Moderator that the Scots have been described as "rather pathetic with a childish sense of national identity" but I've realised you are the Moderator.
Nice to know what you think of Scotland.
Why on earth do you want to be British when you think the Scots are pathetic?
To be fair, JAJ did go on to mention that this was probably a noisy minority. And i do have to agree. Scots walking around in Trinidad/Argentina/whomever england are playing, football shirts (or whatever), is a bit childish, dont you agree? If i thought that they felt the same way about my home country (england) then i wouldn't have a problem supporting Scotland against other teams (esp Rangers when they play in Europe!)

Last edited by adiestubbs; Jun 8th 2007 at 4:12 am.
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