Steerpike

In another thread, a comment was made by a newcomer to the US discussing why they don't drive off and visit various desirable places nearby. Someone else pointed out that 100 miles in the US is "nothing", compared to the UK.
http://britishexpats.com/forum/showp...&postcount=251

Basically ...
I found this excessive, and the poster suggested we start a new thread on the topic, so here it is ... (two parts).

On the topic of being 'green' in the 'US' vs 'UK'
When I left the UK (1983), there was very little environmental 'awareness' that I can remember. I moved to (the people's republic of) San Francisco, which was pretty active even then. There were curbside glass bottle recycling programs in the late 80s for example, and CA had the strictest emissions requirements for cars in the world (and needed them due to miles driven and solar breakdown issues). People up in Humboldt county were chaining themselves to old-growth Redwoods to stop the lumber industry from cutting them down, and I was forced to put in a low-flow shower head and double-pane windows when I did some renovations on a condo (I wasn't renovating the shower, they just took the opportunity to force the issue by making it a condition of permit completion).

These days, I get the impression that the UK seems to be more aggressive on many of these issues; 'congestion' taxes for driving in London, banning of plastic bags in grocery stores, etc.

Is the general consensus that the UK is more aggressive in this regard? I really don't spend any time there so can't really say.

On the topic of 'how far should you go ... (being green)

The poster's comment above about "avoiding a 100 mile drive unless it is absolutely necessary" (due to CO2 emissions) really hits a nerve with me; I think it is a bad way to look at the situation, and is really missing the point when it comes to trying to make the most of a limited time in the country.

I've just installed double-pane windows and a brand-new, ultra-high-efficiency A/C unit in my condo in Scottsdale, where the temperature is ... high . Cost - about $14,000 for both. I put in a similar high-efficiency A/C unit in my CA home a few years back also. I'm looking to buy a hybrid car ... I've test driven several and have to admit, they drive great and there's little 'penalty' (in drive ability) so why not ... .

I support the old 'democrat' efforts to raise MPG standards in cars, and hate the fact that trucks were given an exemption (allowing hideous exceptions such as the Hummer to bypass the MPG targets). I support tax incentives to encourage people to replace inefficient fridges, etc ...

But I will not think twice before planning a trip somewhere based on 'how much CO2 will I be producing' ... that just seems like an empty, 'feel good' gesture that is not going to do any good. It sounds like self-imposed misery to me.

GeoffM

The plastic bags issue seems to have quietened down somewhat. For a while you had to ask for bags in our local Asda, they had days when they were giving out the "bags for life" for free, but now they leave the disposable ones out anyway. Some places charge a penny or five but I think most people don't care. I tend to forget to take "bags for life" back to the supermarket anyway, so usually end up with new bags. I'm not proud of it though!

Mind you, they do seem to have stopped putting pre-packaged raw meat into pointless extra plastic bags, same with wine bottles. I never saw the point anyway and would usually ask them not to if I saw them do it.

I'd be more concerned with industry these days. For example, does the waste from airlines and trains get sorted and recycled? Hundreds of paper coffee cups per train, for example.

In Brazil and a couple of other countries I've been to the garbage bins on the streets (public use) had several holes, ie plastics, papers, bottles, general. It would be so easy to do yet - at least around here in the UK - they don't bother. Yet councils go to great lengths to make you recycle at home. And I don't actually mind sorting the waste, or only having general waste collected once a fortnight - just make it easy for me! And why, Swindon BC, do you not collect black plastic but all other colours are ok?

I tend to avoid long unnecessary drives full stop... if you're going somewhere then surely you have a reason to and therefore can't think twice?! Maybe the idea is to combine trips, carshare, work from home, or whatever.

another bloody yank

I bought this in January:





Yesterday when our washer went tits up we bought this:



So I figure they cancel each other out.

Captain Cheesestick

The whole plastic bags/plastic covered containers issue in UK supermarkets is so transparently nonsense though. The very idea that it isn't just a way to make people pay for something they didn't use to considering everything else makes no sense. I have immense trouble believing this giant corporation has become ethically conscious because the item of food being sold was shipped 4,500 miles from central Africa to downtown Bristol, but you can offset all that by giving them 3 pence.

robin1234

I just did a big shopping in Walmart yesterday and they seem to go overboard on the free plastic bags, many times putting just one or two items in each bag. When I got home & unloaded the car, some items fell out on the driveway because a couple of the bags ripped open when I lifted them they were so thin and obviously had no strength.

I imagine that part of the reason to try to reduce the number of free plastic bags is that they can blow away, get stuck in trees and accumulate in the environment, be eaten by wildlife and cause all kinds of aesthetic and environmental problems.

When the new supermarket opened in our town, they gave away the good quality reusable bags for a couple of weeks; they now sell them for 99c. We keep one in each car so hopefully remember to take them in. They are very convenient because you can get far more into one bag! Another good innovation is the canvas tote bags they give away or sell in liquor stores for 6 bottles of wine. It has canvas dividers inside so it prevents the bottles knocking against each other..

Rete

Our reusable bags can be purchased for 99c as well. However, each time you use it, you are given a 5c credit for each bag used off your bill. So eventually it is a freebie. I always keep at least 10 bags in the trunk for use each weekend when I shop and also use a foldable zipped to a pounch bag for shopping at places like CVS, etc. We recycle water bottles and soda cans. We don't drink beer so they are not a part of our recycable agenda. Our disposal area in the building has a bin for paper, plastic, glass, and metal. Think we are being aggressive.

Captain Cheesestick

Yeah Walmart are nuts for plastic bags. My family use a canvas tote bag mostly.

I do think less plastic is a very good idea. I just don't buy into the idea that Tesco or Sainsbury give a toss about being Green any further than it has been a great marketing ploy for them. My old local Tesco had a set of giant continuously rotating electric signs that you could see from the road. Ran 365 days a year every hour of the day and night. Ironically on it they promoted buying their canvas bags to prevent unnecessary waste of resources.

Leslie

If people weren't so materialistic and addicted to consumption there would be little need to be green.

Buy in bulk and, more importantly, stop buying crap you don't need and stop throwing away perfectly good stuff.

Anybody who buys a new computer, car, and phone every single year, lives in three times as much house as they need, and then gloats about their recycling bin or reusable grocery bags can really just suck it.

robin1234

I think it is a lost cause. They really have convinced most people (including the poor) that they need more crap (cell phones, new TVs, new coffee makers) whether they can afford said junk or not. Those people who watch TV get bombarded with new product & service information in the commercials, and those who can least afford it (the uneducated and the poor) seem to then uncritically think they need the new product.

Case in point, tablets and ereaders. I'm fortunate in working in a library, so can get any book I want free of charge, whether from my institution or borrowed by interlibrary loan. I've never been in the least interested in owning an ereader. The library owns a dozen or so kindles, so I took one home over the weekend to test it out.. I now know (rather than just surmising) that I don't want one or need one. It has nothing to offer me. It seems to me that materialism and new technologies are an insidious kind of drug that consume some people.

Edit to add; off course anyone can get those services from a library, you don't have to work there. But it is just more convenient for me.

Rete

We buy paper products in bulk but as a family of two and living in an apartment, buying anything else in bulk is a waste of money and precious little space.

I fully agree with you about those that need a new car annually or those that have to have the latest electronic gadget for home, car or entertainment as it comes on the market. The people you are targeting are not middle class people in any part of the world but rather the very rich and/or the very young who are of the immediate gratification generation.

TimberHut

As the (DOA) song goes - 'the only thing green is the colour of their money'...

Shops who start charging for carrier bags should cut the BS. They aren't doing this because they want to 'save the planet'. This is one of the most blatant examples of 'fake greenery' around.

If a shop suddenly starts charging for bags because 'our profits are down and we need to screw every penny out of our punters to keep our rich owner in the life he is used to' then I'd go along with that because it's the truth. Isn't it?

Sorry - I'm just very cynical when it comes to a lot of this green stuff...

Leslie

As far as the bulk thing goes of course there are only certain items that it works for but I'm thinking more along the lines of water jugs or using water filters and reusing water bottles etc. My real point though, and I'm sure that you are not an offender, is that people can live with so much less than what they think they need.

I know plenty of "middle class" people who have a new phone or laptop every time I see them. Seriously. It is not that expensive and they look at it as a form of entertainment that they've earned and deserve. What they don't take into consideration is the incredible amount of energy and fuel that it takes to produce all of these "toys". Meanwhile, the landfills are full of things that are discarded simply because they aren't the newest version of whatever.

rallybug

M&S still charge for the single-use carriers (normal size anyway, small ones seem to be free), but Tesco don't charge, you just, in theory, get extra clubcard points for using your own bag

Many moons ago, when I was a teenage cashier in a Safeway, we put meat into another bag because even though it was 'sealed' in a polystyrene tray, they still occasionally leaked blood everywhere.

Agreed, the only place I've seen the separate garbage bins on the streets has been London

There's some talk I've been reading online about the Utah vision for the next 30 years or so, and they've come to the conclusion that building up rather than out is the way forward - less large lots with single-family homes around SLC and its commuter belt, and more apartments/multiple-family homes/condos, closer in to the centre of the city, or at least close to the FrontRunner/TRAX/bus routes. I suppose it's a bonus that Utah has these public transportation options.

fatbrit

Plastic bags are decidedly evil. Reusable bags are a health concern -- you put packages of meat in there one day, and loose veg in there the next -- not a good idea. I tried washing one of those recyclable ones once -- shrunk to one quarter of its original size.

I like the old-style, brown paper bags. And as I usually shop at Trader Joe's (who don't have plastic bags), that's what I get. As they fit almost perfectly in the kitchen garbage bin, I then use them as the bin liner. Works just fine.

TimberHut

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This.

Plus I'm sure all their cleaning products have a nice 'environmentally friendly' sticker on them (which they use with their disposable mop).