Ken Pisichko

LithiaSpgs wrote:

    > Canadians are not going to be fingerprinted.

This is because Cnadians are not interested in terrorizing the USA. Why should we -
the USA is our neighbour and we are each other's greatest trading partner.
Fingerprinting would just impede the orderly flow of goods between the two
countries and solve NONE of the terrorist threat.

    > Canada, for the most part, is really part of the USA. While it is a separate
    > country legally, it is part of the greater US Kingdom (kind of like a suburb of
    > the USA). Its citizens share the same culture and values as US citizens share.

What utter bullshit!!

WE LIKE paying taxes so that we have some service. WE LIKE electing despots for
several terms - that is why we elect majority governments.

While we may share some values, the culture of the two countries (if there is such
a thing as Canadian culture and US culture) is different - not better, just
different.

Values are different too. Drinking is legal if you are 18 and Canadians generally
don't argue with that. The "common good" in Canada is more important than the
"individual" in the USA. Canada allows "gay" marrage, with not much fuss (yet),
while we all read what happens in the USA.

There are definitely commonalities: clothing size, electrical voltage and cycles,
driving on the RH side of the road.

Oliver Costich

On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 04:48:59 GMT, "Mickey"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >Am I mistaken, or did your fellow Americans bitch when the Brazilians
    >introduced the same measures in retaliation.
    >Ring any bells?

You are mistaken.
    >"supernav" <member16283@british_expats.com> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...
    >> Oh,
    >> and if you take 20 secs to take my pic, etc. when I come to England. It
    >> won't bother me one bit. Why do i care?
    >> -= nav =-
    >> --
    >> Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Mickey

Please read...

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald...on/7934565.htm

Or maybe I'll save you some time.....

"The more U.S. citizens griped, the more Brazilians -- not known for their
anti-Americanism -- rallied behind the new rules."


"Oliver Costich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 04:48:59 GMT, "Mickey"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >Am I mistaken, or did your fellow Americans bitch when the Brazilians
    > >introduced the same measures in retaliation.
    > >Ring any bells?
    > You are mistaken.


    > >
    > >"supernav" <member16283@british_expats.com> wrote in message
    > >news:[email protected]...
    > >>
    > >> Oh,
    > >> and if you take 20 secs to take my pic, etc. when I come to England.
It
    > >> won't bother me one bit. Why do i care?
    > >>
    > >> -= nav =-
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> --
    > >> Posted via http://britishexpats.com
    > >

Ursus Polaris

LithiaSpgs wrote:
    > It is not aimed at English citizens but we need to know who is coming into the
    > country and when they leave. It is only fair. It is not that big a deal and the
    > stuff is destroyed once you exit.

If it's really that fair, why did Colin Powell immediately protest when
Brazil begun to fingerprint U.S. citizens at its ports of entry?

Ursus Polaris

supernav wrote:
then don't bitch when they take your pic to protect national
    > security. The latter is MORE important as far as i'm concerned.
    >

With regards to national security:
Wouldn't it be more efficient to concentrate on screening visitors with
terrorist-related cultural background (citizens of many Islamic
countries) more thoroughly instead of taking pic's and fingerprints from
Christian Europeans who obviously don't engage in terrorist activities
or pose any threat to the national security of the US?

And if a very Al-Qaida-looking guy arrives with a British passport, one
should check him of course, independently of his citizenship. But why
treat ordinary Europeans like potential criminals? And that's even worse
for Europeans who are citizens of non-VWP countries.

Ursus Polaris

Oliver Costich wrote:

    > On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 04:48:59 GMT, "Mickey"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Am I mistaken, or did your fellow Americans bitch when the Brazilians
    >>introduced the same measures in retaliation.
    >>Ring any bells?
    >
    >
    > You are mistaken.
    >

(So it wasn't Colin Powell who protested immediately on diplomatic level
after Brazil begun to fingerprint U.S. citizens at its ports of entry?)

Ken Pisichko

Now you are saying discriminate on someone's "looks". When I came to the USA
as a student I had to go through the same process to get the same visa to
study as my fellow students from Korean, Israel, Brazil, etc. I did not feel
discriminated against because I was a Canadian. Heck, all of us were legal
alien students.

The quest for self-preservation against a terrorist threat is certainly
resulting in macabre procedures. I certainly note what Brazil is doing to
American passport holders - simply tit for tat.

By the way, do you believe that terrorists would all be described as
"Al-Qaida looking"? What about on 9/11 in those aircraft crashing into US
buildings and the PA country side? What about the "look" of those same
fellows a day before? What about the "look" of terrorist suspects now? I'll
bet the cops and intelligence services go on more than "looks". And what if
one of those "ordinary" Europeans turns out to be an active terrorist, but
passes your "look" test?

ursus polaris wrote:

    > And if a very Al-Qaida-looking guy arrives with a British passport, one
    > should check him of course, independently of his citizenship. But why
    > treat ordinary Europeans like potential criminals? And that's even worse
    > for Europeans who are citizens of non-VWP countries.

Squirrel

It makes no sense to me to say 'Canadians are not interested in terrorising the US.' Neither is the UK. Certainly not my 63 year old mother. But both countries have naturalised citizens that may come from a terrorist country or whose parents do.

As far as I am concerned, putting all these new regulations on VW countries but not Canada is like plugging all but one leak in a pipe. Water will still get through.

Also I think it is incorrect to say the fingerprints and scans will be destroyed after the person leaves the US. I believe they will be kept.

puppymalo

Same old Same old ...... arrogant Yanks ....

yeah your right I wont be missed - neither will a whole lot of other
Brits who feel the same -...... a recent poll in The Times gave 83%
thought the US were acting hysterically and given the UK fought
alongside American troops in Iraq and lost soldiers as well - well
excuse silly us .... we thought we would have earned a little respect
- unlike the French and Germans who ran in the opposite direction.

Point is - the US has, in the minds of the UK public, shown exactly
what it thinks of the UK.

Id rather visit Canada in future - they don't have the almost Nazi
fanatical INS types growling in your face when you arrive with your
vacation suitcase!! - oh and that was a pre-9/11 experience at at
Boston in case you are wondering what I am talking about.




On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 19:19:31 +0100, [email protected] wrote:

    >Well - that is the USA off my holiday list ... I thought the UK - who
    >went to war with America in case anyone forgot) had some sort of
    >special relationship!!
    >Obviously we are now filthy Europeans who need to be scrutinised by
    >Iris and the likes and fingerprinted like criminals - ALL TOURISTS
    >GUILTY until proven innocent!
    >Well America - if ordinary Brits like me who supported the war in Iraq
    >are now saying - **** OFF - then you really ought to take a good long
    >hard look at yourselves.
    >I admired Bush for a while - now I despise him and his administartion.
    >So in summary I will spend my dollars in Canada or somewhere else that
    >actually welcomes me and does not make me feel like I am a convicted
    >criminal!

crg

Toronto looks more like Beijing, Seoul, Bombay, and Islamabad all mushed together.

supernav

Canada and the US are *NOT* the same.

Yes, maybe 100 years ago they were almost identical while both countries were working their asses off building identical infrastructure, technology, language and standard of living (while Mexicans sat on their asses and ate tacos).

But Canada is, and will always be (unfortunately) a bastion of tree-huggin, fag-rearin, immigrant-lovin, tax-payin, hotbed of PINKO LIBERALISM. Canada works off the "The middle-class pays for the lower-class to sit at home and have babies" philosophy. Ever see the tax-rate in Canada? You ask Canadians if they think they're getting their money's worth with their high taxes??

Until the US becomes a hippie liberal state -- the two countries will never be the same. Hence why Canada's "immigration" system is a joke. They're just lucky they don't have Mexico next to their border -- otherwise they'd be pledging allegiance to President Fox.

-= nav =-

crg

So you're saying the U.S. government should single out only Middle Eastern looking UK citizens for extra scrutiny? Maybe they should also install separate lunch counters, and drinking fountains for them?

crg

It doesn't matter who fought with who in the war. If it wasn't for the U.S. you'd all be eating schnitzel, and celebrating Hitler's birthday.

I'm glad you're in the fight with us, but the rule change isn't meant as an insult to the UK citizens. It's to prevent fake UK passports, and country-shopping, non-UK born, 3rd world criminals from using their UK citizenship to slip back into the states and cause trouble.

If the US exempted the UK, then the UK passport would be going for $10,000 on the black market, and people would be breaking into your houses to steal them.

Violent criminals have entered the US successfully with bogus UK passports. I know of one case where an alien, who entered using a stolen UK passport, beat a pregnant woman who then lost her baby. His fingerprints would have betrayed him because he was previously deported. Saving the life of even one child is more than worth an extra 23 seconds for you at the border isn't it?

Mickey

"LithiaSpgs" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > >So in summary I will spend my dollars in Canada or somewhere else that
    > >actually welcomes me and does not make me feel like I am a convicted
    > >criminal!
    > What could Canada have to offer a tourist that cannot be matched 100 times
over
    > by the USA? Do they have Disneyland in Canada? Grand Canyon? Hollywood?
New
    > York? Chicago? (well Toronto is like Chicago)


...........has the death of nearly 3000 people on 9/11 taught you nothing?.
This world is full of people with different viewpoints. Some people have a
great respect and admiration of the US and its' people, and hold the US in
high esteem. Then there are others who despise the US and anything
associated with Americans to the point that they would give their own life
just for the chance of striking against you.
I am certainly closer to the former than the latter, however, as a Canadian
resident and UK citizen, when I 'hopped' across the border to do some
shopping last year, I had to pay $6 to get in and my Canadian friends
didn't. I have not, and will not, be going on anymore trips into the US, and
I'm sure you know exactly where Uncle Sam can shove his $6. My money is
staying here.
This of course has not changed my feelings one bit towards the American
people, of whom I have tremendous respect, but your Government can kiss my
Limey arse. I hope I have made my feelings clear on this matter.

J. J. Farrell

"ursus polaris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > With regards to national security:
    > Wouldn't it be more efficient to concentrate on screening visitors with
    > terrorist-related cultural background (citizens of many Islamic
    > countries) more thoroughly instead of taking pic's and fingerprints from
    > Christian Europeans who obviously don't engage in terrorist activities

How, exactly, are they supposed to distinguish between the "Christian"
Europeans who engage in terrorist activities and the "Christian"
Europeans who don't? In what way is it "obvious" which are which?