Alternative Viewpoint
Jan 30th 2006, 8:52 am
#16
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2004
Location: Was Sydney, now Somerset
Posts: 400
Re: Alternative Viewpoint
Originally Posted by CPW
Sunblock was invented more than 30-40 years ago. I have no information about rates of skin cancer before it was invented or used. The past-time of lying around in the sun with very little clothing on is relatively modern as a mass activity, however - it wasn't much indulged in by the Victorians or Edwardians, for example.
Let's not get involved in a ridiculous argument as to whether sun block is necessary or not when we all know that it is a necessary evil in Australia (amongst other places) in this day and age.
Jan 30th 2006, 10:36 am
#17
Retired
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 34,649
Re: Alternative Viewpoint
Originally Posted by Mummy
Let's not get involved in a ridiculous argument as to whether sun block is necessary or not when we all know that it is a necessary evil in Australia (amongst other places) in this day and age.
In a free society, responsible citizens should make up their own mind whether sunblock is necessary or not without being hectored by various "authorities".
Jeremy
Jan 30th 2006, 10:49 am
#18
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 10,375
Re: Alternative Viewpoint
Originally Posted by Lord Pom Percy
Was'nt sunblock only invented or widely used 30 or 40 years ago,If sunblock is so necessary why were'nt skin cancer rates worse in those days.
http://www.drmelton.com/Chicago/skin...s/bccrec30.htm
I fully commend the australian government for advising us to cover up, apply sunblock and stay out of the sun, UV rays are there in winter too its not just a temperature thing. Newspapers up here recommend a maximum of 6 minutes in the sun, friends of ours are from PNG so very dark skinned even there skin burns here.
Jan 30th 2006, 10:56 am
#19
BE Enthusiast
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 622
Re: Alternative Viewpoint
Originally Posted by JAJ
In a free society, responsible citizens should make up their own mind whether sunblock is necessary or not without being hectored by various "authorities".
Jan 30th 2006, 11:07 am
#20
Retired
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 34,649
Re: Alternative Viewpoint
Originally Posted by CPW
I agree with that. It's a question of the balance between, on the one hand, provision of information so that people have the facts and can make up their own mind in a responsible way and, on the other hand, hectoring.
Suggesting that no-one can go into the sun for 10 minutes without sunblock falls into the latter category.
Of course sunburn should be avoided, but at the same time I am not convinced that there is any real harm in a *moderate* exposure to the sun.
Jeremy
Jan 30th 2006, 11:14 am
#21
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 10,375
Re: Alternative Viewpoint
I imagine the cost to the health system in OZ from skin related cancers is one of the reasons the govs out there trying to educate us.
Theres also a bit more to skin cancer than having af few moles cut off, an often unknown fact is many life threatening cancers start from skin cancer that spreads internally or through lymph nodes to other parts of the body.
From what Ive seen most of the advice to stay out of the sun is from the gov, the cancer council, and medical sources, in an educational way rather than hectoring
Theres also a bit more to skin cancer than having af few moles cut off, an often unknown fact is many life threatening cancers start from skin cancer that spreads internally or through lymph nodes to other parts of the body.
From what Ive seen most of the advice to stay out of the sun is from the gov, the cancer council, and medical sources, in an educational way rather than hectoring
Jan 30th 2006, 11:39 am
#22
BE Enthusiast
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 622
Re: Alternative Viewpoint
Originally Posted by JAJ
Suggesting that no-one can go into the sun for 10 minutes without sunblock falls into the latter category.
There is evidence that moderate sunburn can be harmful in the long term, most particularly if it is repetitive. (In other words, one occurrence of sunburn is less dangerous than repeated, or regular, occurrences.) Clearly, as noted above, it does depend on a number of factors, including skin type, distance from the equator, time of year, time of day, presence of reflective surfaces (most notably water). And most people who have had gradual exposure over a period of time are less prone to burn than people who haven't been in the sun for a while. But we mustn't go away thinking that it's all right as long as the sunburn isn't severe.
Jan 30th 2006, 3:00 pm
#23
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 557
Re: Alternative Viewpoint
I think you're being a little unfair to say the least. The reason perhaps you're fed up of Britain is because it's not your home, SA is?
Having lived abroad now for over a year, I know for a fact there's nowhere I'd rather live than Britain. There's no country in the world with such a sense of fair play, good humour and tolerance than the UK.
Having lived abroad now for over a year, I know for a fact there's nowhere I'd rather live than Britain. There's no country in the world with such a sense of fair play, good humour and tolerance than the UK.
Originally Posted by Springbok
Hi There All......... 
I have read a few of the threads from folk whom are coming back to the U.K. or already have come back. People say they are nuts and mad or not thinking straight. I myself am a South African. I have lived and worked in the U.K. for 13 years now. I live in West Cumbria with 2 kids and the wife. We live an outdoors lifestyle which we enjoy. The wife is from the U.K..
The thing is I have had enough of England now and so has the wife. We are in the position to move so we are. I wish I could go back to South Africa, but I have my parents out there that say it's alright if your are a tourist but forget living there if you want to bring a family. it is dangerous, there is no work if you are white and the government are as corrupt as Robert Mugabe. I have enjoyed my time in the U.K. but in the last 3 years it just seems to me and the wife we pay for nothing. The council is continually closing kids play parks. Ask them to put a swing in an existing one and they tell us as long as we pay for it ourselves they will let us put one in. I am a chef and the quality of the trained chefs coming out of colleges is absolutely crap. Half of them can't even read let alone do anything else. No interest in what they are doing.
I am not slagging the British off but I think they have lost their way. We are going to Australia not because the grass is greener or their is wads of cash. We want the outdoor lifestyle which is almost guaranteed by the weather. We are not materialistic. We want something better for our kids. Heaven knows there is nothing around here for them.
It might seem as if I am trying to put people off coming back here. I am not. I would go back to S.A. now if I could. This place is just not for me anymore. Just like all those folk whom don't like Australia. At least we can say we have given it a go and tried.
Australia is going to be our New South Africa and we are really looking forward to it. Good luck to all those coming back here. At least you've tried it and experienced life elsewhere. Life has its choices, we are all in the fortunate position to make them..................
Ewan and the Noisy Nutters................
P.S. Hope this makes sense, it's Saturday and well sober. :scared:
I have read a few of the threads from folk whom are coming back to the U.K. or already have come back. People say they are nuts and mad or not thinking straight. I myself am a South African. I have lived and worked in the U.K. for 13 years now. I live in West Cumbria with 2 kids and the wife. We live an outdoors lifestyle which we enjoy. The wife is from the U.K..
The thing is I have had enough of England now and so has the wife. We are in the position to move so we are. I wish I could go back to South Africa, but I have my parents out there that say it's alright if your are a tourist but forget living there if you want to bring a family. it is dangerous, there is no work if you are white and the government are as corrupt as Robert Mugabe. I have enjoyed my time in the U.K. but in the last 3 years it just seems to me and the wife we pay for nothing. The council is continually closing kids play parks. Ask them to put a swing in an existing one and they tell us as long as we pay for it ourselves they will let us put one in. I am a chef and the quality of the trained chefs coming out of colleges is absolutely crap. Half of them can't even read let alone do anything else. No interest in what they are doing.
I am not slagging the British off but I think they have lost their way. We are going to Australia not because the grass is greener or their is wads of cash. We want the outdoor lifestyle which is almost guaranteed by the weather. We are not materialistic. We want something better for our kids. Heaven knows there is nothing around here for them.
It might seem as if I am trying to put people off coming back here. I am not. I would go back to S.A. now if I could. This place is just not for me anymore. Just like all those folk whom don't like Australia. At least we can say we have given it a go and tried.
Australia is going to be our New South Africa and we are really looking forward to it. Good luck to all those coming back here. At least you've tried it and experienced life elsewhere. Life has its choices, we are all in the fortunate position to make them..................
Ewan and the Noisy Nutters................
P.S. Hope this makes sense, it's Saturday and well sober. :scared:
Jan 30th 2006, 4:14 pm
#24
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: Mother Land.
Posts: 14,858
Re: Alternative Viewpoint
Originally Posted by seacreature
I think you're being a little unfair to say the least. The reason perhaps you're fed up of Britain is because it's not your home, SA is?
Having lived abroad now for over a year, I know for a fact there's nowhere I'd rather live than Britain. There's no country in the world with such a sense of fair play, good humour and tolerance than the UK.
Having lived abroad now for over a year, I know for a fact there's nowhere I'd rather live than Britain. There's no country in the world with such a sense of fair play, good humour and tolerance than the UK.
Jan 30th 2006, 6:17 pm
#25
Springbok
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Yarra Glen
Posts: 67
Re: Alternative Viewpoint
Hiya..........
Thanks for the points of view. Thats what I like to see. As for me missing S.A. and that's why I now dislike the U.K., wrong I am afraid. I live in an area with loads of fresh air, we walk the every week-end around the lakes. Cost us nothing to enjoy a day out and we live here!!!!!
As I said we are not going with rose tinted spectacles, my wife is English and she can't stand the way the place is being run. I could start ranting about the "fair" society, "tolerance" and so on but I won't. Those are some of the reasons we are leaving. I think a lot of this country has become spineless and just lets everything go. The majority would probably stand up and so no to most things that are going on, but in a "Politically Correct" society we are not allowed and thus the minority rules.
Shoot me down if you wish, I am entitled to my opinion...........
The Nutters
Thanks for the points of view. Thats what I like to see. As for me missing S.A. and that's why I now dislike the U.K., wrong I am afraid. I live in an area with loads of fresh air, we walk the every week-end around the lakes. Cost us nothing to enjoy a day out and we live here!!!!!
As I said we are not going with rose tinted spectacles, my wife is English and she can't stand the way the place is being run. I could start ranting about the "fair" society, "tolerance" and so on but I won't. Those are some of the reasons we are leaving. I think a lot of this country has become spineless and just lets everything go. The majority would probably stand up and so no to most things that are going on, but in a "Politically Correct" society we are not allowed and thus the minority rules.
Shoot me down if you wish, I am entitled to my opinion...........
The Nutters
Jan 30th 2006, 7:19 pm
#26
Springbok
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Yarra Glen
Posts: 67
Re: Alternative Viewpoint
Hiya Again...............
Just done my 100 sit ups, 6 miles on the bike and so on. I apologise for the "Spineless" remark, . Probably as the wife said the English are just trying to please too many people and thinking of themselves second. I think the English should start to look after the themselves. That sounds a bit more to the point.
Phew.........
Now start shooting..............
Just done my 100 sit ups, 6 miles on the bike and so on. I apologise for the "Spineless" remark, . Probably as the wife said the English are just trying to please too many people and thinking of themselves second. I think the English should start to look after the themselves. That sounds a bit more to the point.
Phew.........
Now start shooting..............
Jan 30th 2006, 7:35 pm
#27
Thinking about it
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Mid-West
Posts: 9,435
Re: Alternative Viewpoint
Originally Posted by Springbok
Hiya Again...............
Just done my 100 sit ups, 6 miles on the bike and so on. I apologise for the "Spineless" remark, . Probably as the wife said the English are just trying to please too many people and thinking of themselves second. I think the English should start to look after the themselves. That sounds a bit more to the point.
Phew.........
Now start shooting..............
Just done my 100 sit ups, 6 miles on the bike and so on. I apologise for the "Spineless" remark, . Probably as the wife said the English are just trying to please too many people and thinking of themselves second. I think the English should start to look after the themselves. That sounds a bit more to the point.
Phew.........
Now start shooting..............
Stop reading the Daily Mail, get on with your own life and stop concerning yourself with all this cr*p and you'll be right as rain.
Living away from family, friends and familiarity is much tougher than living in a country run by PC lunatics and self-serving politicos, trust me - and besides PC is everywhere now anyway.
Jan 30th 2006, 8:34 pm
#28
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 629
Re: Alternative Viewpoint
Originally Posted by Lord Pom Percy
Was'nt sunblock only invented or widely used 30 or 40 years ago,If sunblock is so necessary why were'nt skin cancer rates worse in those days.
The best advice is to cover up with SPF50 clothing, or hat/light clothing and SPF30 sunscreen. Wise up or you'll be a statistic.
Department of Education, Science and Training
http://www.dest.gov.au/archive/Scien...er/green.html:
"{Australians receive a background level of UV exposure which is moderately high in the southern states, and very high in the north of the country, when compared with people living in temperate climates in the United States or northern Europe. In tropical Darwin, levels of solar UV radiation are very high throughout the year."
"Using data from the Australian Bureau of Statistics, melanoma mortality has been examined from 1931 to 1994. From 1931-34 the age-standardised mortality rates were less than 1.0 per 100 000 in both men and women; from 1990-94 rates were 5.0 and 2.4 per 100 000 in men and women respectively (Giles et al. 1996). Mortality rose steadily from 1931 to a peak in 1985; since then melanoma mortality has plateaued (Giles et al. 1996). These trends could be explained by successive increases in deaths from melanoma in generations born from about 1865 on (Holman et al. 1980) which have since flattened (Giles et al. 1996)."�*
"More startling have been the recent trends in the incidence of melanoma in Australia. For example, the incidence rates in Queensland doubled between 1966 and 1977 (Green 1982) and the 1966 rates have since trebled (Queensland Cancer Registry, unpublished data) with melanoma now diagnosed more frequently than any other cancer registered in that State."�*
"Use of chemical sunscreens which can so effectively prevent transmission of UV radiation to the skin in the short-term logically should protect against all major skin cancers in the long-term. However, their value in preventing skin cancers in humans has not been definitely established (Green 1996). To do so would require scientific trials of chemoprevention in which people use sunscreen regularly for many years to demonstrate their long-term value."�*
Jan 30th 2006, 8:49 pm
#29
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 629
Re: Alternative Viewpoint
Originally Posted by JAJ
Depends on the person, time of day, time of year etc.
In any case, I can't see how the sun is much more, or much less, strong in Australia compared to South Africa.
Jeremy
In any case, I can't see how the sun is much more, or much less, strong in Australia compared to South Africa.
Jeremy
Correct. If you are Aboriginal in Australia you have much less risk, though the risk is greater than zero. I'm talking about this time of year, between 1000 and 1500, where the cancer council recommends that people should
- use shade,
- wear a hat that protects your face, neck and ears,
- wear sun protective clothing,
- use a broad spectrum, SPF�*30+ sunscreen to skin left exposed and reapply every 2 hours, and
- wear close-fitting sunglasses to protect against eye damage.
I'm sure you know this already.
The incidence of melenoma in Australia and NZ is 4 times that in the UK, US and Canada. I personally don't intend joining the statistics.
Jan 30th 2006, 9:00 pm
#30
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 629
Re: Alternative Viewpoint
Originally Posted by JAJ
Suggesting that no-one can go into the sun for 10 minutes without sunblock falls into the latter category.
Of course sunburn should be avoided, but at the same time I am not convinced that there is any real harm in a *moderate* exposure to the sun.
Jeremy
Of course sunburn should be avoided, but at the same time I am not convinced that there is any real harm in a *moderate* exposure to the sun.
Jeremy
Originally Posted by JAJ
In a free society, responsible citizens should make up their own mind whether sunblock is necessary or not without being hectored by various "authorities".
Last edited by ShozInOz; Jan 30th 2006 at 9:08 pm.