to all who are thinking of returning!
Jan 5th 2007, 1:18 pm
#46
Gutter Gob!!
Joined: Feb 2005
Location: Perth
Posts: 13,098
Re: to all who are thinking of returning!
Jan 5th 2007, 1:26 pm
#47
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,999
Re: to all who are thinking of returning!
Jan 5th 2007, 2:10 pm
#48
Home and Happy
Joined: Dec 2002
Location: Keep true friends and puppets close, trust no-one else...
Posts: 93,806
Jan 5th 2007, 2:44 pm
#49
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Joined: Oct 2003
Location: Nappyland
Posts: 2,886
Re: to all who are thinking of returning!
Tony
For what it's worth, posting an opinion that Australia might offer a better future than the UK on the "moving back to the UK" forum usually induces roughly the same reaction as if you were to fart into an amplified microphone during a particularly solemn religious observance.
I agree with you, but you won't get too many thanks round these parts for expressing this particular opinion because people here have decided to return to the UK and are uncertain it's for the best. The last thing they want is doubt entering their calculations. Also, everyone's case is unique to them. Maybe.
For what it's worth, posting an opinion that Australia might offer a better future than the UK on the "moving back to the UK" forum usually induces roughly the same reaction as if you were to fart into an amplified microphone during a particularly solemn religious observance.
I agree with you, but you won't get too many thanks round these parts for expressing this particular opinion because people here have decided to return to the UK and are uncertain it's for the best. The last thing they want is doubt entering their calculations. Also, everyone's case is unique to them. Maybe.
The point that - as always - seems to go over your head is that most people don't deny that you can have a great life in Australia - if what it offers matches what you want. For many people, it doesn't offer what they want, which is not the same as saying that you can't have a good life there.
And, FWIW, I *am* in the UK, and I have no doubts that it is a great place to be for me and my family at this point in time.
You really seem to be a master at labouring points that are totally irrelevant to what is under discussion.
Jan 5th 2007, 2:56 pm
#50
Forum Regular
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 176
Re: to all who are thinking of returning!
hi tony,
read this with interest as on radio 4 there was an article on uk economy then, as im typing this, there is a prog on BBC2 re uk economy. The bits below i type are quotes from the programme, so apologies if it reads like muddled notes but i cant type v fast but want to get a number of points accross....
Quotes
UK is 5th largest economy in the world
Liberal attitude to censor and selling assessts etc whats making country economy so strong.
Transport and communication contribute less to economy than they did 50 yrs ago. Same with manufacturing. - which at one time dominated the world. Now we don’t get wealth from making things. Uk economy now is wealthy as a result of “knowledge economy” eg heath sector, advice, design, anything innovative that transpires knowledge to other economies (TV progs, software, design, inventions) its known as the creative energy of England - the new buzzword as to what’s making Britain a leader in world economy
Has overtaken new york as leader in money trading (banks, pensions, shares , finance etc) - largest foreign exchange centre in the world. largest contributer to uk economy
Globalisation had bad effect on traditional manufacturing areas in uk but fantastic effect in other areas. London is booming.
54 billionaires in world top 1000 list live in UK - having v positive inpact on UK economy
Cornwall poorest wage in relation to highest house price (I mean biggest gap between relationship)
In 2yrs time a new luxury development of apartment buildings will be available in canary wharfe. Apartments now contain own shops, gyms, cafes etc……but the aim is these new builidings attract foreign buyers. Third of all british plc s are now foreign owned.
Utilities - nearly 2 thirds electricity companies foreign owned. Although a lot of argument is foreigners “coming in and taking our jobs” the opposite is in fact true - ie the very wealthy generate huge income/jobs for country, and the poorer (eg Eastern Europeans) doing a lot of unskilled work necessary to keep businesses going. (end of quotes)
Its funny when people moan about the Eastern Europeans taking jobs….The fact that a polish served me in a pub, waited on the table in Pizza Express and picked lettuices for local vegetable farm expand the capacity for these business to take on more custom, therefore more money for economy. If Eastern Europeans demanded higher wages the British do, then house interest rates would rise as the prog explained.
the McDonalds worker didnt take a British persons job - the British person wrongly thinks they are above that type of work, so doesnt apply. McDonalds etc permenantley recruit - they did before the mass european influx here and they will continue to do so as they look for continual expansion as do many other companies.
maybe if more parents gave their kids a kick up the arse and said "you WILL work and you will do anything, even waiting on tables, to bring money in and work while you look for something else," rather than allowing them to lounge around feeling the world owes them, there wouldnt be intimidating gangs of kids on street corners as theyd be more useful. Not, that where i live in UK, i ever feel intimidated by gangs of kids - yet - touch wood. Im sure you do see it in London and many major cities - but how many have been personally affected by it - or just heard about an incident from someone else?
i cant comment on the effect Eastern Europeans have had on the trades as thats not my field, so i accept your point, although tadies in Oz seem to have similar concerns to you there. I work in education and know again, many kids think they are above being apprentices etc or what they wrongly see as menial work. Blame the parents!!! Not the country as in the scheme of numbers, most people wherever you live in the world are decent. England has a minority of underclass, scumbags...but it is a minority. Its growing, sure, but isnt it everywhere?
2 more points to make from a personal view.....
NHS - cant stand it when people rubbish the NHS.
IMO its the best health service in the world. People make sweeping statements about NHS....How many who make these sweeping statements trusted their loved ones to give birth to their children there? if people think the NHS is so bad, it is hypocritical if their children were delivered by the NHS. Trusted them with your childs life, didnt you? How many women have regular smear tests, cancer treatment, rehab etc etc etc? How dare you then rubbish it unless you are/or a loved one now disabled/dead/worse following treatment?
And then you go on the Oz forum... Read the threads about how people come to UK for their holiday, taking the opportunity to visit the dentist/optician/get prescriptions etc. I know a lot of people who regularly visit from their new home to use NHS services, even though it was so crap, its one of the reasons they left
Second point...I agree. The diversityinequality in Uk is clear just driving through some towns. Thing is, I cant help thinking its interesting. When people want to move on in their careers or want adventure, London attracts. While that doesnt help those on benfits in a poorer area, its still interesting. In Australia, a big pull is the perceived notion of people being more equal. Try telling the aboriginals that. it is harder to live in UK but sometimes people prefer that. Some people need a buzz, a bit of edge in their lives...
Im still trying to work out if i do or not.
A happy medium would be good, but in the end you cant get that so opt for one or the other.
All the best for your move, rose tints off to you too, and good luck!
C
read this with interest as on radio 4 there was an article on uk economy then, as im typing this, there is a prog on BBC2 re uk economy. The bits below i type are quotes from the programme, so apologies if it reads like muddled notes but i cant type v fast but want to get a number of points accross....
Quotes
UK is 5th largest economy in the world
Liberal attitude to censor and selling assessts etc whats making country economy so strong.
Transport and communication contribute less to economy than they did 50 yrs ago. Same with manufacturing. - which at one time dominated the world. Now we don’t get wealth from making things. Uk economy now is wealthy as a result of “knowledge economy” eg heath sector, advice, design, anything innovative that transpires knowledge to other economies (TV progs, software, design, inventions) its known as the creative energy of England - the new buzzword as to what’s making Britain a leader in world economy
Has overtaken new york as leader in money trading (banks, pensions, shares , finance etc) - largest foreign exchange centre in the world. largest contributer to uk economy
Globalisation had bad effect on traditional manufacturing areas in uk but fantastic effect in other areas. London is booming.
54 billionaires in world top 1000 list live in UK - having v positive inpact on UK economy
Cornwall poorest wage in relation to highest house price (I mean biggest gap between relationship)
In 2yrs time a new luxury development of apartment buildings will be available in canary wharfe. Apartments now contain own shops, gyms, cafes etc……but the aim is these new builidings attract foreign buyers. Third of all british plc s are now foreign owned.
Utilities - nearly 2 thirds electricity companies foreign owned. Although a lot of argument is foreigners “coming in and taking our jobs” the opposite is in fact true - ie the very wealthy generate huge income/jobs for country, and the poorer (eg Eastern Europeans) doing a lot of unskilled work necessary to keep businesses going. (end of quotes)
Its funny when people moan about the Eastern Europeans taking jobs….The fact that a polish served me in a pub, waited on the table in Pizza Express and picked lettuices for local vegetable farm expand the capacity for these business to take on more custom, therefore more money for economy. If Eastern Europeans demanded higher wages the British do, then house interest rates would rise as the prog explained.
the McDonalds worker didnt take a British persons job - the British person wrongly thinks they are above that type of work, so doesnt apply. McDonalds etc permenantley recruit - they did before the mass european influx here and they will continue to do so as they look for continual expansion as do many other companies.
maybe if more parents gave their kids a kick up the arse and said "you WILL work and you will do anything, even waiting on tables, to bring money in and work while you look for something else," rather than allowing them to lounge around feeling the world owes them, there wouldnt be intimidating gangs of kids on street corners as theyd be more useful. Not, that where i live in UK, i ever feel intimidated by gangs of kids - yet - touch wood. Im sure you do see it in London and many major cities - but how many have been personally affected by it - or just heard about an incident from someone else?
i cant comment on the effect Eastern Europeans have had on the trades as thats not my field, so i accept your point, although tadies in Oz seem to have similar concerns to you there. I work in education and know again, many kids think they are above being apprentices etc or what they wrongly see as menial work. Blame the parents!!! Not the country as in the scheme of numbers, most people wherever you live in the world are decent. England has a minority of underclass, scumbags...but it is a minority. Its growing, sure, but isnt it everywhere?
2 more points to make from a personal view.....
NHS - cant stand it when people rubbish the NHS.
IMO its the best health service in the world. People make sweeping statements about NHS....How many who make these sweeping statements trusted their loved ones to give birth to their children there? if people think the NHS is so bad, it is hypocritical if their children were delivered by the NHS. Trusted them with your childs life, didnt you? How many women have regular smear tests, cancer treatment, rehab etc etc etc? How dare you then rubbish it unless you are/or a loved one now disabled/dead/worse following treatment? And then you go on the Oz forum... Read the threads about how people come to UK for their holiday, taking the opportunity to visit the dentist/optician/get prescriptions etc. I know a lot of people who regularly visit from their new home to use NHS services, even though it was so crap, its one of the reasons they left
Second point...I agree. The diversityinequality in Uk is clear just driving through some towns. Thing is, I cant help thinking its interesting. When people want to move on in their careers or want adventure, London attracts. While that doesnt help those on benfits in a poorer area, its still interesting. In Australia, a big pull is the perceived notion of people being more equal. Try telling the aboriginals that. it is harder to live in UK but sometimes people prefer that. Some people need a buzz, a bit of edge in their lives...
Im still trying to work out if i do or not.
A happy medium would be good, but in the end you cant get that so opt for one or the other.All the best for your move, rose tints off to you too, and good luck!
C
Excellent post, took me 20 mths in Oz to see the grass wasnt greener just grass. A guy told me today i was mad to come back here, said this country going downhill, he never lived abroad had 2 major ops on the nhs, own 2 houses in spain, gained from working here in uk and intends to retire and move there when he 50. I reminded him that living here seemed to have done him good .........'er well put that way i guess so' he said and off he went
Jan 5th 2007, 3:51 pm
#51
Democracy advocate
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,460
Re: to all who are thinking of returning!
Thankyou for this post and your opinion, but it means nothing to any of us actually.
We all feel different about certain things in life so listening to others opionions will not change how you feel right now.
My opinions matter to me, no-one else, so gotta do what my heart tells me to do and thats get the hell out of OZ, no matter what others think of UK it will not persuade me.
For us the UK was far better than OZ, we came , we tried, we failed. Go back to what we know...i'm still glad we tried it though, but give me back the shit goings on in UK as for us the shit in OZ is worse.
We all feel different about certain things in life so listening to others opionions will not change how you feel right now.
My opinions matter to me, no-one else, so gotta do what my heart tells me to do and thats get the hell out of OZ, no matter what others think of UK it will not persuade me.
For us the UK was far better than OZ, we came , we tried, we failed. Go back to what we know...i'm still glad we tried it though, but give me back the shit goings on in UK as for us the shit in OZ is worse.
Jan 5th 2007, 6:11 pm
#52
Forum Regular
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 176
Re: to all who are thinking of returning!
Tony
For what it's worth, posting an opinion that Australia might offer a better future than the UK on the "moving back to the UK" forum usually induces roughly the same reaction as if you were to fart into an amplified microphone during a particularly solemn religious observance.
I agree with you, but you won't get too many thanks round these parts for expressing this particular opinion because people here have decided to return to the UK and are uncertain it's for the best. The last thing they want is doubt entering their calculations. Also, everyone's case is unique to them. Maybe.
For what it's worth, posting an opinion that Australia might offer a better future than the UK on the "moving back to the UK" forum usually induces roughly the same reaction as if you were to fart into an amplified microphone during a particularly solemn religious observance.
I agree with you, but you won't get too many thanks round these parts for expressing this particular opinion because people here have decided to return to the UK and are uncertain it's for the best. The last thing they want is doubt entering their calculations. Also, everyone's case is unique to them. Maybe.
can i ask why u are watching the return forum, maybe YOU are uncertain you made the right decision to go there, just trying to see the reason for your post, are u agreeing with both sides,
Jan 5th 2007, 6:55 pm
#53
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: Nappyland
Posts: 2,886
Re: to all who are thinking of returning!
Certainly. I can't help feeling that those who do nothing but moan about the UK are hard-wired to moan about their surroundings wherever they are. Give them a year or two in Canada and it'll start again. "Oh I hate -20 degrees" "Oh I pay too much tax" "Oh nothing ever happens in Canada" "America is so much cheaper" and on and on and on.
I'm suspicious of people who whine so much about the UK, and am inclined to believe they have never lived abroad. <snip>
My "stance" is that I wanted to redress the anti-UK bias on these forums, and make it clear that Canada also has problems, something which many seem reluctant to admit.
I'm suspicious of people who whine so much about the UK, and am inclined to believe they have never lived abroad. <snip>
My "stance" is that I wanted to redress the anti-UK bias on these forums, and make it clear that Canada also has problems, something which many seem reluctant to admit.
No one should make the decision to leave a country like Britain permanently based on the kind of stuff they read in the Daily Mail.
I feel the UK gets too much of a panning on here - and a completely unjustified on as well
Now, he's backing up the people who he criticised back then.
Jan 5th 2007, 7:44 pm
#55
She's a bird, you know
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 7,655
Re: to all who are thinking of returning!
Ah yes, England, why would anyone want to live here?
I live in a village. It's a lovely village with a proper post office, butchers, bakers, village hall, library etc etc etc. There is a proper village atmosphere where people say hello to each other in the street, kids play in the park without being kidnapped/preyed upon/falling on syringes.
I have a good job, which I walked straight into after moving up here. I've was promoted after a year and am I about to be interviewed for another job at the same insitution. I have excellent career prospects with an excellent employer (university). We both earn enough to support a decent mortgage and to live comfortably.
I travel to work on public transport, which I can do door-to-door on the bus and train, and have had very few problems with delays etc. I pay £16 a week to travel a weekly total of 180 miles, which I reckon is pretty good.
We go on holiday at least a couple of times a year - off to France this year, as well as Jersey, and maybe skiing too. We're not wealthy by any means, but we can afford this because travel in Europe is cheap. There is plenty on offer in the UK too, and especially in the area where we live.
I've had two operations in the last 3 months, both on the NHS. The waiting time from diagnosis to operation was 5 weeks - it would have been 10 days, but I opted to delay it because we got married and went on honeymoon in between
. I don't have a serious illness, and neither were these urgent operations - 10 days was simply the average waiting time at my hospital. I was given my own ensuite bedroom which was immaculate, cleaned 4 times a day. I don't believe I would have been seen any quicker or treated any better if I had gone private.
So what happy little corner of England do I live in where things are so good? West Yorkshire, just outside Bradford - probably an area of the country those such as the original poster would assume was afflicted with all that is bad about Britain.
Yes England has problems, but then so does everywhere else. For those wishing to move back, it's honestly not that bad (don't believe all the red-top tales of doom). In fact, it is a fantastic place to be - but only if it's where you want to be.
I live in a village. It's a lovely village with a proper post office, butchers, bakers, village hall, library etc etc etc. There is a proper village atmosphere where people say hello to each other in the street, kids play in the park without being kidnapped/preyed upon/falling on syringes.
I have a good job, which I walked straight into after moving up here. I've was promoted after a year and am I about to be interviewed for another job at the same insitution. I have excellent career prospects with an excellent employer (university). We both earn enough to support a decent mortgage and to live comfortably.
I travel to work on public transport, which I can do door-to-door on the bus and train, and have had very few problems with delays etc. I pay £16 a week to travel a weekly total of 180 miles, which I reckon is pretty good.
We go on holiday at least a couple of times a year - off to France this year, as well as Jersey, and maybe skiing too. We're not wealthy by any means, but we can afford this because travel in Europe is cheap. There is plenty on offer in the UK too, and especially in the area where we live.
I've had two operations in the last 3 months, both on the NHS. The waiting time from diagnosis to operation was 5 weeks - it would have been 10 days, but I opted to delay it because we got married and went on honeymoon in between
. I don't have a serious illness, and neither were these urgent operations - 10 days was simply the average waiting time at my hospital. I was given my own ensuite bedroom which was immaculate, cleaned 4 times a day. I don't believe I would have been seen any quicker or treated any better if I had gone private. So what happy little corner of England do I live in where things are so good? West Yorkshire, just outside Bradford - probably an area of the country those such as the original poster would assume was afflicted with all that is bad about Britain.
Yes England has problems, but then so does everywhere else. For those wishing to move back, it's honestly not that bad (don't believe all the red-top tales of doom). In fact, it is a fantastic place to be - but only if it's where you want to be.
Jan 5th 2007, 7:51 pm
#56
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: Nappyland
Posts: 2,886
Re: to all who are thinking of returning!
Great post Bundy.....quite spooky you posted this evening cos I've just been re-reading some old posts and you and Tableland were having a debate in one I just read!! (http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...=336189&page=2)
Hope married life is treating you well. We're just in the process of booking our holiday to France too.
Hope married life is treating you well.
We're just in the process of booking our holiday to France too.
Jan 5th 2007, 8:06 pm
#57
She's a bird, you know
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 7,655
Re: to all who are thinking of returning!
Great post Bundy.....quite spooky you posted this evening cos I've just been re-reading some old posts and you and Tableland were having a debate in one I just read!! (http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...=336189&page=2)
Hope married life is treating you well. We're just in the process of booking our holiday to France too.
Hope married life is treating you well.
We're just in the process of booking our holiday to France too.Hope you're well!
Jan 5th 2007, 8:22 pm
#58
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2003
Location: Toronto
Posts: 642
Re: to all who are thinking of returning!
You don’t have a clue mate, you seem to have the misconception that the UK is the only place in world that has these problems, but in fact the majority of the western world complain about exactly the same thing its caused by globalization, I think you should stop believing everything they print in the daily mail and get back to reality.
Here in Canada they preach State funded healthcare but it isnt free at all, you have pay extra for everything, ( e.g. if you call an ambulance they will bill you $75 )
EVERY COUNTRY has problems……. I love some things about Canada and I cant stands other stuff, the same with the UK
The British are known for moaning / whinging about just about anything hmmmm this just proves it. If you emigrant I'm sure you'll be complaining about same things in your new country.
Jan 5th 2007, 8:47 pm
#59
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 987
Re: to all who are thinking of returning!
Look i'm not having a pop at anyone going back, i'm sure i'll end up back home myself one day i'm just saying some of the posts you read about the Uk being the promised land and living in Oz like being in hell are ridiculous and IMO the UK isnt the best place to be at the moment.
I understand people get homesick, been there myself, and for others it just oesnt work out but all the Oz bashing is a bit unnessicary.
BTW thanks for taking an interest in me grayling, chill out.
I understand people get homesick, been there myself, and for others it just oesnt work out but all the Oz bashing is a bit unnessicary.
BTW thanks for taking an interest in me grayling, chill out.
My mum who I am in touch with very reguarly tells me all about the problems in the UK.And I think its not a good place right now.I do understand where you are coming from all too well ,I know all about these things some of the reasons which prompted me to move away from the UK in the first place.
There is also not a day that goes by thinking am I doing the right thing going back to the UK.
Who knows . I have made my decision I. may go back and hate it.
I have not been out here that long so things will not have changed too much especially in the village where I used to live.
I know that I am just existing here and not living I am bored totally bored.
I also now appreciate the UK a lot more and its closeness to the rest of Europe.Once here you really are away from everything .
I know that I will start over and and cannot wait to get back on with my life with my family.
I know that's in my heart where I belong.
So I will return it will not be easy I know there will things I will hate once more about the UK,there will be things I will miss about OZ.
Good Luck in your quest hope it works out for you and maybe one day you will realise some of these things too as only you will know when you are in that situation.
Jan 5th 2007, 8:49 pm
#60
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 987
Re: to all who are thinking of returning!
Some great posts on this thread - so full of understanding
A lot of what the OP says about the UK is spot on, however many people are aware of this yet are prepared to move back because the UK is their home, whether they like it or not it is where they feel most comfortable.
For many of us we are no more able to chose our 'home' than we are able to chose our own family - sure we can move away, but it will never feel quite the same elsewhere despite the original reasons for moving away still being there when we return.
For those who can emotionally detach themselves from the country of their birth/parents/upbringing, well good luck to you - I wish you all the best, but not everyone is like that.
A lot of what the OP says about the UK is spot on, however many people are aware of this yet are prepared to move back because the UK is their home, whether they like it or not it is where they feel most comfortable.
For many of us we are no more able to chose our 'home' than we are able to chose our own family - sure we can move away, but it will never feel quite the same elsewhere despite the original reasons for moving away still being there when we return.
For those who can emotionally detach themselves from the country of their birth/parents/upbringing, well good luck to you - I wish you all the best, but not everyone is like that.
