Advice on not getting 'overseas' fees status and getting a Student loans-Time in USA
#46
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 41,518
Re: Advice on not getting 'overseas' fees status and getting a Student loans-Time in
H1B is a dual-intent visa and if you've sold your home and are desperate to stay out of Britain it seems like stretching a point to try to appeal for home fees to me.
#47
Re: Advice on not getting 'overseas' fees status and getting a Student loans-Time in
My daughter is in a similar situation. She was here in the US on a H4 attached to her dad's H1B. She went back to the UK in October 2010, applied in January 2011 and in early Feb, got unconditional offers for any of the 3 courses she wanted. We're currently doing battle with the finance dept who initially classed her as international - we're appealing on the definitions of "ordinarily resident" and "temporary", so we'll see. I am concerned that if we are correct and she can be classed as a home student, that the original offer will be withdrawn but it doesn't say in the letter that the application is conditional on her being international.
I can provide the finance dept with a temporary contract for her dad but I would have thought the fact that a H1B is a temporary visa would have been sufficient, possibly not.
Student loans - if she's classed home, there is a strange question on the loan application form asking if she or us have worked or lived abroad since September 2008. If she's classed as international, I am then concerned about getting non-government backed loans.
One thing going against us was that we had to sell our house in the UK - this had nothing to do with whether we intended to stay in the US but for economic and personal reasons which I'd rather not have to discuss with a nosey person in a finance dept but may have to swallow my pride and do so. I'm curious which bit of H1B/temporary visa they don't get.
I have been informed, independently, that come 2012, international students 'could' end up paying less than UK students - that will be an interesting scenario. This information was from a Uni admissions officer not connected with this case - a friend of a friend so to speak.
@ Henry - I've messaged you to see if you'd like to swap information directly with my daughter. Her only advice so far is unless you have a Uni place or a job, don't even think of going back to the UK - yet . She's currently applying for about 10 jobs a month and so far hasn't even had the courtesy of a reply to say no thanks.
I can provide the finance dept with a temporary contract for her dad but I would have thought the fact that a H1B is a temporary visa would have been sufficient, possibly not.
Student loans - if she's classed home, there is a strange question on the loan application form asking if she or us have worked or lived abroad since September 2008. If she's classed as international, I am then concerned about getting non-government backed loans.
One thing going against us was that we had to sell our house in the UK - this had nothing to do with whether we intended to stay in the US but for economic and personal reasons which I'd rather not have to discuss with a nosey person in a finance dept but may have to swallow my pride and do so. I'm curious which bit of H1B/temporary visa they don't get.
I have been informed, independently, that come 2012, international students 'could' end up paying less than UK students - that will be an interesting scenario. This information was from a Uni admissions officer not connected with this case - a friend of a friend so to speak.
@ Henry - I've messaged you to see if you'd like to swap information directly with my daughter. Her only advice so far is unless you have a Uni place or a job, don't even think of going back to the UK - yet . She's currently applying for about 10 jobs a month and so far hasn't even had the courtesy of a reply to say no thanks.
#48
Re: Advice on not getting 'overseas' fees status and getting a Student loans-Time in
Moral of the story = Edinburgh (the better Uni in gerneral and for my subject: Law) is willing to let me on the course with easier entry requirements because they want more money(overseas fees).
Ill post back periodically with the replys of Dundee and Nottingham.
Seems as though if you want to get in easy then you can pay more(overseas) but you have to work a lot harder if you want to pay home fees. Of course this would only apply to those who have left the country.
Ill post back periodically with the replys of Dundee and Nottingham.
Seems as though if you want to get in easy then you can pay more(overseas) but you have to work a lot harder if you want to pay home fees. Of course this would only apply to those who have left the country.
#49
Re: Advice on not getting 'overseas' fees status and getting a Student loans-Time in
We'll see what happens - 1 year, 3 years, 7 years and 1 month - it's still temporary by virtue of a temporary visa, unless they then give a further definition of the word temporary, which isn't given in their current definition - they decide the wording and shouldn't be allowed to change the goalposts to suit. I shall let you all know when we get an answer
#50
Account Closed
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 75
Re: Advice on not getting 'overseas' fees status and getting a Student loans-Time in
#51
Re: Advice on not getting 'overseas' fees status and getting a Student loans-Time in
cake and eat it comes to mind....good luck to the kids though.
#53
Just Joined
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2
Re: Advice on not getting 'overseas' fees status and getting a Student loans-Time in
JT1's daughter here.
I realise these are forums and forum users tend to take great delight in their bravado and attacking others, but please realise there are actual people on the other end. There is no need for the offensive attitude some of you appear to have taken.
Thank you to those who were genuinely helpful. If anyone has any other advice for me please feel free to drop me a PM
I realise these are forums and forum users tend to take great delight in their bravado and attacking others, but please realise there are actual people on the other end. There is no need for the offensive attitude some of you appear to have taken.
Thank you to those who were genuinely helpful. If anyone has any other advice for me please feel free to drop me a PM
#54
Re: Advice on not getting 'overseas' fees status and getting a Student loans-Time in
JT1's daughter here.
I realise these are forums and forum users tend to take great delight in their bravado and attacking others, but please realise there are actual people on the other end. There is no need for the offensive attitude some of you appear to have taken.
Thank you to those who were genuinely helpful. If anyone has any other advice for me please feel free to drop me a PM
I realise these are forums and forum users tend to take great delight in their bravado and attacking others, but please realise there are actual people on the other end. There is no need for the offensive attitude some of you appear to have taken.
Thank you to those who were genuinely helpful. If anyone has any other advice for me please feel free to drop me a PM
#55
Just Joined
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2
Re: Advice on not getting 'overseas' fees status and getting a Student loans-Time in
Nope, people don't get offended by receiving answers they weren't looking for. Disappointed, maybe, but not offended. People get offended by others' attitudes and tones.
Maybe there was no offence intended (and maybe there was nothing cynical or mocking about the "cake and eat it" comment either) but this is the internet, and one must be careful of the way things are written or they may be construed differently than one intends.
Anyway, not going to argue further. My mother taught me manners
Maybe there was no offence intended (and maybe there was nothing cynical or mocking about the "cake and eat it" comment either) but this is the internet, and one must be careful of the way things are written or they may be construed differently than one intends.
Anyway, not going to argue further. My mother taught me manners
#56
Re: Advice on not getting 'overseas' fees status and getting a Student loans-Time in
Nothing mocking about it, but you can't go for permanent residency and then feel things were only temporary. There's nothing temporary about extending a visa and living close to a decade abroad.
It might be unfortunate but them the rules and the consequences of ones actions.
Things might have played out different if you'd looked into this earlier, such as going back to the UK alone to do A-levels or any other such scenario, but they don't help you out now, hindsight and all that.
It might be unfortunate but them the rules and the consequences of ones actions.
Things might have played out different if you'd looked into this earlier, such as going back to the UK alone to do A-levels or any other such scenario, but they don't help you out now, hindsight and all that.
#57
Re: Advice on not getting 'overseas' fees status and getting a Student loans-Time in
To be fair, I do feel sympathy for children of expats who want to study for degrees in the UK but are classed as internationals because of the actions of their parents. On the other hand, from prior threads on a similar topic, it was evident that the prospective student had no intention of subsequently staying in (and therefore contributing to) the UK, which explains some of the attitudes that come across in replies ("have your cake and eat it" for example - this pretty accurately describes some past cases).
Maybe the solution should be some sort of "conditional" home fees status for children of expats - conditional on the graduate remaining in the UK for 3 years post-graduation, for example.
It does seem rather inconsistent that any returning expat can immediately get free NHS and schooling, but not higher education.
Maybe the solution should be some sort of "conditional" home fees status for children of expats - conditional on the graduate remaining in the UK for 3 years post-graduation, for example.
It does seem rather inconsistent that any returning expat can immediately get free NHS and schooling, but not higher education.
#58
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,294
Re: Advice on not getting 'overseas' fees status and getting a Student loans-Time in
Maybe there was no offence intended (and maybe there was nothing cynical or mocking about the "cake and eat it" comment either) but this is the internet, and one must be careful of the way things are written or they may be construed differently than one intends.
Anyway, not going to argue further. My mother taught me manners
I took on extra work to give my children £80 a week each, every week, even during the holidays and for two years I had both at university at he same time! My children also worked 20 hours a week during term time and full time during the holidays and I fed them during the holidays when they came home. The good news is that they certainly entered the fulltime workplace with a good work ethic and I was flushed when they finished university.
Your mother has had a lot of good advice on here and nobody has been offensive, but there is no denying that your family emigrated 8 years ago and this was not a "temporary" move. Whether your parents get away with getting you home fees and a student loan, I don’t know, but it is not the end of your education if you don’t get a student loan as you can cope without with your parents help. Then you just have the international fee loan to find and surely your parents would help with this?
It might also be worth researching to see what degrees, grades and which university/ies employers want, as many graduates are leaving university with debt and a degree that employers don't want.
One other thing I have heard from international students is the problem they have getting a job while at university, as the home students have already been working in the supermarkets and just transfer to their university area. Perhaps you can get ahead of the game there and get a full time job working in a supermarket now, so you can just transfer areas when you go to university. You have 7 more months before university starts, to work as many hours as you can and add this to the money you have already earned.
BTW, don’t forget to look on Amazon for second hand course books when you get your list at university.
Last edited by formula; Feb 27th 2011 at 12:23 am.
#59
Re: Advice on not getting 'overseas' fees status and getting a Student loans-Time in
You can survive without a student loan: both my children did. However, it will entail both you and your parents putting in the hours to do this if your parents haven’t already saved for your further education.
I took on extra work to give my children £80 a week, every week, even during the holidays and for two years I had both at university at he same time! My children also worked 20 hours a week during term time and full time during the holidays and I fed them during the holidays when they came home. The good news is that they certainly entered the fulltime workplace with a good work ethic and I was flushed when they finished university.
Your mother has had a lot of good advice on here and nobody has been offensive, but there is no denying that your family emigrated 8 years ago and this was not a "temporary" move. Whether your parents get away with getting you home fees and a student loan, I don’t know, but it is not the end of your education if you don’t get a student loan as you can cope without with your parents help. Then you just have the international fee loan to find and surely your parents would help with this?
It might also be worth researching to see what degrees, grades and which university/ies employers want, as many graduates are leaving university with debt and a degree that employers don't want.
One other thing I have heard from international students is the problem they have getting a job while at university, as the home students have already been working in the supermarkets and just transfer to their university area. Perhaps you can get ahead of the game there and get a full time job working in a supermarket now, so you can just transfer areas when you go to university. You have 7 more months before university starts, to work as many hours as you can and add this to the money you have already earned.
BTW, don’t forget to look on Amazon for second hand course books when you get your list at university.
I took on extra work to give my children £80 a week, every week, even during the holidays and for two years I had both at university at he same time! My children also worked 20 hours a week during term time and full time during the holidays and I fed them during the holidays when they came home. The good news is that they certainly entered the fulltime workplace with a good work ethic and I was flushed when they finished university.
Your mother has had a lot of good advice on here and nobody has been offensive, but there is no denying that your family emigrated 8 years ago and this was not a "temporary" move. Whether your parents get away with getting you home fees and a student loan, I don’t know, but it is not the end of your education if you don’t get a student loan as you can cope without with your parents help. Then you just have the international fee loan to find and surely your parents would help with this?
It might also be worth researching to see what degrees, grades and which university/ies employers want, as many graduates are leaving university with debt and a degree that employers don't want.
One other thing I have heard from international students is the problem they have getting a job while at university, as the home students have already been working in the supermarkets and just transfer to their university area. Perhaps you can get ahead of the game there and get a full time job working in a supermarket now, so you can just transfer areas when you go to university. You have 7 more months before university starts, to work as many hours as you can and add this to the money you have already earned.
BTW, don’t forget to look on Amazon for second hand course books when you get your list at university.
I think you raise another potential consideration, namely that maybe now is not a good time to go to university, especially if it will cost you $9,000 a year in international fees ... there has been a lot of debate in the press lately about the "value" of a UK degree and the low employment rate of UK graduates. The assumption (in the UK and US) that children should just drift (I use the word deliberately, rather than "transition" or some other fashionable buzzword) from high school to college/university is rarely challenged.
I think we are very much in an "Emperor's new clothes" situation, and if I were a parent of an 18-year old I would be counselling him/her to think seriously about getting work (ANY kind of work - I spent a year doing various jobs between secondary school and college) for a few years, getting some life experience, and only then deciding whether university is a good idea. Added benefits at that point would be a more insightful and critical attitude towards learning, hopefully a financial base that would make paying for university expenses easier, being eligible for home fees status, and potentially other advantages associated with programmes to get "nontraditional" (older, etc.) students into university. Another advantage would be reinforcement of a valuable life skill, namely understanding the concept of delayed gratification. We can't always get what we want, and get it now. Understanding and living by that principle is as good as anything you will learn from a lecture on media studies or political science.
#60
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,294
Re: Advice on not getting 'overseas' fees status and getting a Student loans-Time in
Some (many?) degrees and/or universities, are worthless to employers. TBH, my children wouldn't be high rate tax payers if they didn't have a good degree from a good university. Some potential students would be better working in the job and getting a day release for study. Longer and harder I know, but at least they have a job at the end of it and the firm pays for their degree.
If you offer to teach for a while, the government use to pick your university fees. Maths and science graduates got chased by the government to enter their "teach first" programme.
Richard Branson and Bill Gates haven't got degrees.