Editha

Actually, there is a lot of point in recognising that politics is the art of the possible. Blair won three elections, and whatever you think of him now, his governments did a lot more than just go to war in Iraq. They left the NHS in a better state than ever before, to give just one example.

The far left in the Labour Party is, and always has been, an unwitting ally of the Conservative Party. Since 1945, it is the main reason that the Conservative Party has been in power more than Labour.

Pulaski

Not really, because his chancellor Gordon Brown just about bankrupted the country, thereby jeopardizing the country's ability to pay for the NHS in the medium term, never mind the long term.

Editha

Given that Attlee and Bevan disagreed on most issues, which of them do you prefer? The one who was willing to compromise in order to implement the Beveridge report and found the Welfare State, or the one whose uncompromising attitude deepened the left right split in the Labour Party?

Novocastrian

If we discount the 2010-15 coalition, the Tories and Labour have been in power (within months) for the same time since 1945.

I can't see the "far left" (whatever that is) as being responsible, perhaps more likely the ambitious self-serving nut cases like Blair.

Editha

Maybe it's my poor arithmetic, but I make it 30 years and 2 months for Labour, but 36 years for the Conservatives (to Sept '16), if you don't count the Coalition; 41 years if you do..

Blair's 'ambitious self serving' won three elections for Labour, 13 years, more than a third of the total time Labour has held power since the foundation of the welfare state. No other Labour prime-minister has held power for so long. So, it is difficult to see how the Labour leader who never lost an election can be held responsible for other leaders losing them.

Richard8655

Looking from afar, where are the LibDems? Did Nick Clegg screw things up so badly that there's no longer an effective 3rd party? And weren't they even further to the left than Labour? A shame if so.

Pulaski

The Lib-Dems pretty much imploded, and, yes from any objective viewpoint some of their policies were waaay off to the left somewhere.

This makes the electoral outlook for dissidents within the Labour party even more bleak because there is no established centre-left party for them to jump ship and join.

Editha

I think that is an exaggeration. The financial crisis was world-wide and not caused by Brown's policies. I would agree that he'd not paid down the deficit when the economy was booming, which would have given the economy a bigger safety margin, and he'd been remarkably sanguine about debt. But, you could also blame the previous Conservative governments for deregulation. Canada, which had kept its financial sector heavily regulated, barely registered the financial crisis.

Novocastrian

Well, Jer did just fine at his Conference, let's see how well Theresa does at hers.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ech-delusional

Novocastrian

No the poor arithmetic was mine.

Moral: Don't do mental arithmetic when you're mental.

BristolUK

This is true. There were big increases in benefit levels for those on low incomes with children - although it had the bizarre effect of "putting more people in poverty" since it meant more people qualified for benefits as a result That they all gained money and were actually better off "didn't matter" but the stats did

I can understand that view but it's not them, rather the way in which they were portrayed.
A vote for Labour is inviting the Soviet tanks in; All those scares about the militant tendency seizing control...yeah, what was it, 4 MPs at most out of 650 in the house?; Nobody ever asking or wondering how if those MPs were so mad and dangerous, the electorate in their constituencies (not party members) would repeatedly vote them back in.

What else was there...oh yes, Arthur Scargill accused of scaremongering (but being proved right) and the Express reporting on how he applauded 'Soviet style' at a meeting. Applauded Soviet style? WTF is that? And all those gullible readers of the Sun, Express and Mail were all taken in by that drivel.

Michael Foot and his Donkey Jacket (it wasn't). Red Robbo, Red Ken, Bonkers Benn and all the rest...shameful, bloody shameful.

The reality may well be that current Labour is unelectable. But because it won't be allowed. The lies and exaggerations will see to that as usual.

It's a poor choice. Vote for a party that rewards the rich and punishes the poor, vote for the acceptable face of Labour and get more of the same but maybe a bit less severe or vote for something much better but know you won't get it.

Fortunately I live in Canada where I no longer have such frustrations when it comes to the relative lack of political choice.

Novocastrian

!00% spot on. But don't be so pessimistic this time around. The old media are dead on their feet.

holly_1948

And way more than equal if you count Blair on the Tory side of the ledger.
Which is the right thing to do.
Blair was no more a socialist than Ramsay MacDonald.

neill

What message do you have your average English centrist/small 'c'/whatever?

Do you continue to sneer at them and scream about equality and all the rest of it.

These are precisely the people that get you elected.

Labour need to (re)figure that out.

holly_1948

In the short term there is no British Socialist message, since EU exit, worldwide financial collapse and indeed unrestricted nuclear war (assuming Clinton is elected POTUS) are each somewhat likely before 2020. And any one will change everything.

In the longer term the message must be along the lines of:
"To secure for the workers by hand or by brain the full fruits of their industry and the most equitable distribution thereof that may be possible upon the basis of the common ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange, and the best obtainable system of popular administration and control of each industry or service. " (That text was adopted verbatim by the British Labour Party in 1918).
It's taken for granted that the mass media will pull out all possible stops for defeat socialism.