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*Vent* shackled by circumstance

*Vent* shackled by circumstance

Old Mar 6th 2007, 12:26 am
  #16  
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Cool Re: *Vent* shackled by circumstance

Originally Posted by dingbat
Actually, with respect, I did not ask for your opinion. You state that you have never been in this particular position and make rather naive assumptions about what you think you would do if you were. All very nice, but you do not have a clue what you are talking about. Perhaps it would have been wiser not to sit in judgement without the experience to back you up......
I thought I did have experience. I've lived thousands of miles away from home with 2 children, and an American husband, through good times and bad. If that's not experience, I don't know what is.

But vent away!! it's good for you.
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Old Mar 7th 2007, 12:08 pm
  #17  
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Default Re: *Vent* shackled by circumstance

Originally Posted by dingbat
Actually, with respect, I did not ask for your opinion. You state that you have never been in this particular position and make rather naive assumptions about what you think you would do if you were. All very nice, but you do not have a clue what you are talking about. Perhaps it would have been wiser not to sit in judgement without the experience to back you up......

Well said I completely agree with your post how can anyone possibly know the experiances you have been through in order to maintain a balanced life for your child .You have my admiration keep strong im sure a solution will come
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Old Mar 13th 2007, 5:43 am
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Default Re: *Vent* shackled by circumstance

Originally Posted by nohinsara
I really just need to vent about this whole mess I've gotten myself into.

Here I am now with a difficult Canadian husband that is resisting my efforts to get us to the UK, even though he knows it's what I've wanted since we met. I think I'm getting somewhere with him, but it's rough going.
Some stupid people have told him that life in the UK is the pits, and Canada is so much better ( !), so he believes them! It makes me so mad... why he doesn't consider my opinion is beyond me.
We have a beautiful son, that I absolutely adore and can't stand to be away from (he's only 7 months), so I can't go to London alone to set up a flat and work whilst leaving hubby and son here. It would kill me. Yet staying here in Canada is killing me too.

I've been scouring the UK immigration boards, trying to find and answer, and I think I may have one, but I wonder if it is really this "simple".


Now I'm left with this burden of being a sponsor for my husband and child, and frustrated at the prospect of trying to scrape together some cash as a savings to satisfy the immigration people. I have no idea how I'm going to do that when the cost of living is so flipping high in Vancouver. How will I work, pay for child care, and find money to put away? How much is it going to suck when what I can save will be butchered by the exchange rate?

Gone are the days when I simply took my two passports, packed my bags and jumped on a plane. It was so simple then, and I feel I didn't really get to appreciate that ease as much as I should have.

As much as I love my Son and Husband, I can't help wondering what life would have been like if I had stayed in England rather than coming back here to Canada.

Thanks for listening.
I have no idea what I am talking about but as a UK citizen can't you go back to the UK on your passport and hubby and baby go with you at the same time but claim it is a holiday...until you get there and then apply for your spouse visa when you are there...seems very very unfair that you have to be split up. I know I'd certainly try to do that, you are making a huge move and need to be there to support each other. Hope all goes well
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Old Mar 13th 2007, 7:49 am
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Default Re: *Vent* shackled by circumstance

There are many, many people shackled by circumstances whether it be money to move (as in the OP's case) or children who are the subject of custody orders.

I agree with Mallory that a child has the right to know both parents. I know this is incredibly frustrating when it means not being able to move "home" or wherever else one likes. It's very hard.

The only advice I can give to women who want to have children is that they must be able to support themselves or they can very well find themselves trapped financially if there is a divorce. It used to be that the woman took the children "home" to live with relatives while she got back on her financial feet (if ever). Now that's no longer the case -- most courts recognise the father's right to see the child (and the child's right to see the father) meaning the mother has to stay in the area in which they've been living.

This means that the mother *has* to be able to support herself and her children. This usually means that the mother cannot leave the workforce when her children are small, and must have an occupation that pays fairly well.

OP -- I'm a little confused. You have student loans (presumably from uni?) to repay but you are working as an office assistant. What did you study at uni?
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Old Mar 13th 2007, 8:18 am
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Default Re: *Vent* shackled by circumstance

OP -- I'm a little confused. You have student loans (presumably from uni?) to repay but you are working as an office assistant. What did you study at uni?
I studied the most useless thing a person could study apparently. I studied linguistics, or I studied it until the day I researched what I could do with a linguistics degree (found almost nothing) and dropped out. I have about 2 years of uni, no degree. A degree is 4 years here, and I was already so far in debt. Stupid decision, definitely dumb of me! I'm taking some pre-reqs for nursing now at night courses.

I have a massive student loan because when I dropped out I went to a private trade school to study Esthetics (Beauty Therapy). Waste of money. Hated the career.

It's funny though, I must say that even though people gets degrees at university here, that doesn't get them a good job a lot of the time. Not like it does in the UK anyway. I've heard many people say that they got their degree and still ended up working for minimum wage. It really sucks here for that. I found that I could make twice minimum wage working in an office, so that's what I ended up with, sadly.
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Old Mar 13th 2007, 8:33 am
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Default Re: *Vent* shackled by circumstance

Originally Posted by phil01
I have no idea what I am talking about but as a UK citizen can't you go back to the UK on your passport and hubby and baby go with you at the same time but claim it is a holiday...until you get there and then apply for your spouse visa when you are there...seems very very unfair that you have to be split up. I know I'd certainly try to do that, you are making a huge move and need to be there to support each other. Hope all goes well
Debbie
Debbie - I have considered doing just what you suggest, but I don't know if we could get away with it. If he comes on a plain holiday then he can only stay for 6 months and cannot work. He has more earning power than I do so it would be rough. Plus I don't know if he can apply from the UK for a spousal visa, I get the impression he must fly home and apply there. Could be wrong on that one though.
I thought of him coming over on a working holiday visa, but it's not likely he would get it I think, being that he's married. Plus, our son would have to be on the visa as well, which sure wouldn't look good.
I just don't think it's going to work any other way but the spousal visa
Please someone correct me if you think it's possible to do this another way... (besides the HSMP visa - I don't think hubby would qualify for that either)
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Old Mar 13th 2007, 8:42 am
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Default Re: *Vent* shackled by circumstance

Originally Posted by nohinsara
It's funny though, I must say that even though people gets degrees at university here, that doesn't get them a good job a lot of the time. Not like it does in the UK anyway. I've heard many people say that they got their degree and still ended up working for minimum wage. It really sucks here for that. I found that I could make twice minimum wage working in an office, so that's what I ended up with, sadly.
That's because the UK has a more diverse selection of jobs -- and even if one does end up being an office assistant, one is going to have a better standard of living in the UK vs Canada.

My husband, who is from the Netherlands, is in a similar situation. He finished one bachelor's degree knowing he didn't want to stay in the field. Went to grad school, partied, left school. Ended up driving a truck because it interested him and it paid okay -- IN THE NETHERLANDS.

Here it pays next to nothing and carries no benefits, especially the all-important health insurance (in the US, this is crucial). He's struggling to find any sort of a job, despite being very bright, AND having degrees, that pays anything. He needs to retrain but is finding this difficult at his age. This means I have to support him, something I can't do for much longer without jeopardising my own savings/retirement and money for my children. We can't move to Europe because the kids' dad is here. That leaves us with few options if my husband can't find a job.

It's an extremely expensive lesson to go to university or training school if you can't use the degree when you get out. Don't make that mistake again. Do your best to get training or an entry-level job in a field that is in demand. If you can do the job, nursing is not a bad choice.
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Old Mar 13th 2007, 9:17 am
  #23  
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Default Re: *Vent* shackled by circumstance

Originally Posted by nohinsara
Debbie - I have considered doing just what you suggest, but I don't know if we could get away with it. If he comes on a plain holiday then he can only stay for 6 months and cannot work. He has more earning power than I do so it would be rough. Plus I don't know if he can apply from the UK for a spousal visa, I get the impression he must fly home and apply there. Could be wrong on that one though.
I thought of him coming over on a working holiday visa, but it's not likely he would get it I think, being that he's married. Plus, our son would have to be on the visa as well, which sure wouldn't look good.
I just don't think it's going to work any other way but the spousal visa
Please someone correct me if you think it's possible to do this another way... (besides the HSMP visa - I don't think hubby would qualify for that either)
Have you sent an enquiry off to immigration to check...I had a quick look on their website and found this:

How do I qualify to join my husband, wife or civil partner in the UK?
You must show that:
• you are legally married to each other or are in a civil partnership recognised in the UK
your husband, wife or civil partner is present and settled in the UK (see below)
• you both intend to live together permanently as husband and wife or as civil partners
• you have met each other before
• together you can support yourselves and any dependants without any help from public funds
• you have suitable accommodation, which is owned or lived in only by you and your household, and where you and your dependants can live without any help from public funds
• your husband, wife or civil partner is not under 18, and
• you are not under 18.

What does "present and settled" mean?
‘Settled’ means being allowed to live in the UK lawfully, with no time limit on your stay. "Present and settled" means that the person concerned is settled in the UK and, at the time we are considering your application under the Immigration Rules, is in the UK or is coming here with you, or to join you and plans to live with you in the UK if your application is successful.

You have the legal right to live in the UK and under settled it says is coming here with you? I would email the UK immigration peeps and double.
Debbie
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Old Mar 13th 2007, 12:30 pm
  #24  
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Default Re: *Vent* shackled by circumstance

I found this under 'www.workgateways.com'
http://www.workgateways.com/working-...use-entry-visa

Spouse Visa
If your spouse is a British Citizen, or has an Ancestry Visa or Right to Abode in the UK, or is sponsored to work in the UK, then you are eligible to apply for a UK Spouse Entry Visa. This also entitles you to work in the UK and should be applied for and granted prior to entry into the UK.
Restrictions: Dependent on spouse visa status

How do I apply for this visa?

.....

Processing seems quick too - within about 6 weeks - much easier than being sponsored by a Canadian coming to Canada!!
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Old Mar 13th 2007, 12:37 pm
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Default Re: *Vent* shackled by circumstance

Nohinsara,
How long have you been married? The reason I ask, I found this quote on a lawyer's website: http://www.smithstonewalters.com/spouses.htm [I have embolded the relevant bit below...] You should send the lawyers an enquiry regarding working permits - it should be free for an assessment and that way, you know 100% what the options are.
Best of luck!


Spouses

This category allows overseas nationals to seek to enter or remain in the United Kingdom with a view to settlement as the spouse of a person present and settled in the U.K.

Applicants in this category must demonstrate that they have contracted into a valid marriage to a person present and settled in the UK, that the marriage is subsisting and that each of the parties has the intention to live permanently with the other as his or her spouse. Applicants must also demonstrate that they will be able to support and accommodate themselves without recourse to public funds.

Approval in this category is granted for an initial period of 24 months. On completion of this period permanent residence may be granted. However, in cases where married couples have been living together for a period of at least 4 years prior to applying, indefinite leave may be granted immediately to the non-settled spouse.
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Old Mar 13th 2007, 6:50 pm
  #26  
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Default Re: *Vent* shackled by circumstance

Originally Posted by snowbunny
That's because the UK has a more diverse selection of jobs -- and even if one does end up being an office assistant, one is going to have a better standard of living in the UK vs Canada.

It's an extremely expensive lesson to go to university or training school if you can't use the degree when you get out. Don't make that mistake again. Do your best to get training or an entry-level job in a field that is in demand. If you can do the job, nursing is not a bad choice.
I whole-heartedly agree on both points. This is why I'm so stressed out about trying to pick what the right career is for me. I just don't know, and I can't afford to make a mistake again. I think I could do nursing, but I'm sure it would be a case of trial and error on finding out what KIND of nursing I could do.
I also find that the UK is 500 times better than Canada for the education. There's just so much freaking choice when compared with here. It's very daunting here, even if you find something you want to study, you may discover it's only offered on the other side of the country!

Now to the whole immigration issue.

Debbie - you've hit the nail on the head with this:
your husband, wife or civil partner is present and settled in the UK
That's exactly our problem, combined with this:
you have suitable accommodation, which is owned or lived in only by you and your household, and where you and your dependants can live without any help from public funds
Which we do not have. On your application for the spousal visa they are looking for three things for the most part: 1 - you're in a legitimate marriage (We are!) 2 - you've got savings (HA! Save in BC? We don't have) 3 - you have accommodation in the UK to come to which isn't overcrowded (We don't have. How can one get a job without a flat, and a flat without a job??)

And so for now we're kind of messed over. I just don't know how to solve those two points of savings and accommodation. Sure, we could sell the condo, but that's going to be a whole other risky endeavor, making my in-laws angry for sure (long story). Even if we did sell it, we're not guaranteed any profit once all is said and done.

louisasurreygirl -
However, in cases where married couples have been living together for a period of at least 4 years prior to applying, indefinite leave may be granted immediately to the non-settled spouse
We do have this. We've been living together since Mar 03. The problem is even in the sight of this, we still must come up with the accommodations and savings. I've never thought of asking lawyers though. The prospect scares me though, we can't afford lawyers, and they always find a way to charge you for something! We might not have a choice in the end...

It's all very frustrating because I feel that we're so close to the goal, yet so far away. So many road blocks.
Our counselor says the best way for us may be for hubby to secure a job in the UK first, then a flat, then baby and I move over. All well and good, but hubby can't work without the visa, can he? That leaves the idea of me coming over first to do the same, but I would have to bring my baby because I simply couldn't live without him. That is a risky thing to do, and we'd HAVE to have some money behind us for things like child care etc. I don't think I could take such risks (with a clear conscience) when my son is involved.
It's enough to make a person quite mad!
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Old Mar 13th 2007, 10:50 pm
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Default Re: *Vent* shackled by circumstance

What sort of job is your husband in if you don't mind me asking... is it a sought after job, or one which requires a specialised skill as that will put him ahead of the field too, and in those type of jobs, employers will sponsor a work permit from time to time if they are struggling to recruit locally.... I have been researching the job market in London for my hubbie, and there are literally tonnes of jobs out there; obviously it will depend on what he does. I am extremely lucky as my hubbie has dual british/canadian nationality though so it will be easy for us when the time comes.

As for you, if your husband is still young enough, I would definitely consider the working visa option too ... that is what i am doing whilst i am in canada and awaiting my visa application over here, so i imagine you can do that in the UK too. I am not an expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I am just trying to think of other options (although you probably have explored many already!) If I were you, I would definitely email a lawyer for a quick assessment of what your options are. It cannot hurt, and they shouldn't charge you until you actually engage them to do any work for you, and that ought to involve signing an engagement letter agreeing their terms and fees first (and if they don't they are not abiding their local law society rules). Certainly do not be afraid of approaching them.

Best of luck - and fingers crossed something comes up for your husband job wise in the meantime!
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Old Mar 14th 2007, 6:26 am
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Default Re: *Vent* shackled by circumstance

Originally Posted by louisasurreygirl
What sort of job is your husband in if you don't mind me asking... is it a sought after job, or one which requires a specialized skill as that will put him ahead of the field too, and in those type of jobs, employers will sponsor a work permit from time to time if they are struggling to recruit locally.... I have been researching the job market in London for my hubbie, and there are literally tonnes of jobs out there; obviously it will depend on what he does. I am extremely lucky as my hubbie has dual british/canadian nationality though so it will be easy for us when the time comes.

As for you, if your husband is still young enough, I would definitely consider the working visa option too ... that is what i am doing whilst i am in canada and awaiting my visa application over here, so i imagine you can do that in the UK too. I am not an expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I am just trying to think of other options (although you probably have explored many already!) If I were you, I would definitely email a lawyer for a quick assessment of what your options are. It cannot hurt, and they shouldn't charge you until you actually engage them to do any work for you, and that ought to involve signing an engagement letter agreeing their terms and fees first (and if they don't they are not abiding their local law society rules). Certainly do not be afraid of approaching them.

Best of luck - and fingers crossed something comes up for your husband job wise in the meantime!
Hi louisasurreygirl -
I don't mind you asking at all. My hubby (age 28) works for eBay, in policy for the "fraud" department (it's kind of hard to explain what he does, I don't even really know the whole story!).
From what I've seen on Monster and Reed there's plenty of work in his field. That is what frustrates me the most. I know he could get work there no problem, but the address and money is in our way.
My hubby is skilled, but not skilled enough to warrant a head hunter to go our of their way to sponsor him. I get the definite impression that there are plenty of people in the UK that can do what my hubby can do, so the employer's attitude is very much "why not hire the one that's already here, rather than have to sponsor this guy". Who knows though, maybe one of the people I contact will have a change of heart.

I'm going to have to do some serious posting on the immigration forum I read regarding the other option of the working visa option... is that the same as the working holiday maker visa?
Also do you have any referral for me for a lawyer? Someone trustworthy?
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Old Mar 14th 2007, 12:13 pm
  #29  
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Default Re: *Vent* shackled by circumstance

Hi Nohinsara
Sorry, I wasn't very clear at all. Yes I did mean the working holiday visa, and if he's 28, he certainly qualifies age-wise...

I do not have any recommendations for immigration lawyers, but this is a link to the immigration law practitioners assocation website, which lists many lawyers associated with this organisation - http://www.ilpa.org.uk/

Good luck!
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Old Mar 14th 2007, 4:18 pm
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Default Re: *Vent* shackled by circumstance

louisasurreygirl - Thank you. I've looked into the WHM Visa's requirements, and I don't think he'd qualify. I think we'd have to come up with a lot of money for Mark to go over with, and it would be uncomfortable trying to lie and say that he was only going over for holiday reasons.

This whole question of securing accommodations has been haunting me for about a month. So I've just given in and called ABTRAN ($2.80 per minute!) to ask about how we can get around it. I mean, it just doesn't seem to make sense - the rules say I must be present and settled, but we could alternatively come together. Well how could we be present and settled at the time of the application if we came together? I got an answer from ABTRAN, though I'm not sure I quite believe it (copy of my post on an immigration board):

I've called ABTRAN and asked how we could be present and settled if we are going together. I was told that I should put the address of any family or friends we might stay with in the UK. We don't have any family or friends there (or at least none that I would feel comfortable asking to do this). I was then asked what we planned to do for our accommodations on arrival. I said we planned to stay in an inexpensive hotel until a flat could be secured. She said that that is what I could put on the application, in the form of a covering letter, complete with details of the hotel booking etc.

I asked if my husband would be rejected if we did put the address of a hotel rather than a proper home address, and was told that I wouldn't be.
So I guess, really... according to that it's just a matter of coming up with the cash. :?
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