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*Vent* shackled by circumstance

*Vent* shackled by circumstance

Old Mar 4th 2007, 9:59 pm
  #1  
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Default *Vent* shackled by circumstance

I really just need to vent about this whole mess I've gotten myself into.

Here I am now with a difficult Canadian husband that is resisting my efforts to get us to the UK, even though he knows it's what I've wanted since we met. I think I'm getting somewhere with him, but it's rough going.
Some stupid people have told him that life in the UK is the pits, and Canada is so much better ( !), so he believes them! It makes me so mad... why he doesn't consider my opinion is beyond me.
We have a beautiful son, that I absolutely adore and can't stand to be away from (he's only 7 months), so I can't go to London alone to set up a flat and work whilst leaving hubby and son here. It would kill me. Yet staying here in Canada is killing me too.

I've been scouring the UK immigration boards, trying to find and answer, and I think I may have one, but I wonder if it is really this "simple".
The bottom line is that British citizens routinely sponsor for spouse visas without needing to be living in the UK. As long as you can show you intend to settle in the UK and won't need public funds, this usually will be accepted.
Arriving at a UK port of entry, they won't care as long as they see the right visa in your husband's and child's passports.
Now I'm left with this burden of being a sponsor for my husband and child, and frustrated at the prospect of trying to scrape together some cash as a savings to satisfy the immigration people. I have no idea how I'm going to do that when the cost of living is so flipping high in Vancouver. How will I work, pay for child care, and find money to put away? How much is it going to suck when what I can save will be butchered by the exchange rate?

Gone are the days when I simply took my two passports, packed my bags and jumped on a plane. It was so simple then, and I feel I didn't really get to appreciate that ease as much as I should have.

As much as I love my Son and Husband, I can't help wondering what life would have been like if I had stayed in England rather than coming back here to Canada.

Thanks for listening.
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Old Mar 4th 2007, 10:27 pm
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Default Re: *Vent* shackled by circumstance

Like in the other thread, we are in very similar circumstances.

Has your husband actually said to you that you can't take the baby away to the UK while you try and get things sorted out? My husband has said a big no to me doing this but you haven't said in this post.

The savings bit is tough, I worked it out and you need around 6,000/7,000 pounds to go with although if I went down that round it would be 10,000 pounds. You also need accomodation as well

Would your husband apply for jobs? It is a difficult one but some people do get lucky.

Sorry, I probably am not much help but I totally understand what you are going through.
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Old Mar 4th 2007, 10:40 pm
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Default Re: *Vent* shackled by circumstance

Both of you are in precarious legal positions. I have been stuck in Canada for the past ten years due to the laws here regarding parental rights. My ex loved the macho male dominated life in Canada and after sponging off me for years, turned into a violent deadbeat after we immigrated. He realised that because I had kids with him, I had no rights or any means to survive unless he paid child support in Canada. If you want to leave - just go and take your kids with you BEFORE any court order ar legal people get involved. There is nothing anyone can do to stop you if there is no court order in place. BC is worse than Ontario for nailing women down. The best years of my life have been wasted in this hole of a province, my career was ruined and my confidence shot to hell. Feeling "alive" back home is so very true; I feel like I have died here, but am forced to go through the motions of day to day life until I can do what I need to do
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Old Mar 4th 2007, 11:35 pm
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Default Re: *Vent* shackled by circumstance

babsi
Like in the other thread, we are in very similar circumstances.

Has your husband actually said to you that you can't take the baby away to the UK while you try and get things sorted out? My husband has said a big no to me doing this but you haven't said in this post.

The savings bit is tough, I worked it out and you need around 6,000/7,000 pounds to go with although if I went down that round it would be 10,000 pounds. You also need accommodation as well

Would your husband apply for jobs? It is a difficult one but some people do get lucky.

Sorry, I probably am not much help but I totally understand what you are going through.
I want to thank you for your understanding and also for the info regarding the money I would have to come up with to go, although the reality of it is so depressing and daunting. 10,000 pounds! I have student loans here to pay as well and it's all just weighing down on me like a tonne of bricks.
Babsi, when you asked me if my DH would apply for jobs, do you mean from here, or over there? I've tried sooo hard to find postings for him and apply overseas, but I find that they (recruitment agents as well as employers) just won't even look at you unless you're right in front of them. It makes me very frustrated! My DH is skilled, but not on the executive level where they would "head-hunt" him from Canada.

As for accommodation, we have no one that we would feel comfortable putting upon, or that has enough "space" as defined by immigration. The only one we know over there is my DH's sister's husband's parents. A little far from close family to ask such favours.

My husband is actually surprisingly ok with the idea of me going over with the baby first and him following (anything that takes the responsibility off him!), but I just don't know how the hell my son and I would live! I couldn't afford child care if I worked, plus there's the question of where we would live. *sigh* I wonder if I could just go and get some sort of public funds and housing for my son and I. I am almost desperate enough to try it.

Sorry to be blithering on here, it just feels like everywhere I turn there's a huge road block!

dingbat
Both of you are in precarious legal positions. I have been stuck in Canada for the past ten years due to the laws here regarding parental rights. My ex loved the macho male dominated life in Canada and after sponging off me for years, turned into a violent deadbeat after we immigrated. He realized that because I had kids with him, I had no rights or any means to survive unless he paid child support in Canada. If you want to leave - just go and take your kids with you BEFORE any court order are legal people get involved. There is nothing anyone can do to stop you if there is no court order in place. BC is worse than Ontario for nailing women down. The best years of my life have been wasted in this hole of a province, my career was ruined and my confidence shot to hell. Feeling "alive" back home is so very true; I feel like I have died here, but am forced to go through the motions of day to day life until I can do what I need to do
My God woman, I am SO sorry for your circumstance, your post made me want to cry! I just really don't know what to say - your experiences with your ex really scare me. I can't imagine the pain you must have gone through at the hands of this degenerate! Right now my DH is fairly understanding, and even open to the idea of me going over with my son first, but I worry so much that he will become nasty one day and realize he really does have me over a barrel. I don't think he has any idea of his rights at the moment, but I have always had them in the back of my mind.
How old are you kids? Is it true that once they turn 18 you will be able to take them and go? Once again, I'm sorry this horrible province has been so unkind to you. Another reason for me to hate it
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Old Mar 5th 2007, 12:05 am
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Default Re: *Vent* shackled by circumstance

Originally Posted by nohinsara
How old are you kids? Is it true that once they turn 18 you will be able to take them and go?
I can't imagine that parents can restrain an 18 year old, but you might then have the problem that a child of that age might not be "dependent" on you and hence ineligible to migrate to the "other" country involved.

I think you need to first sort out whether your husband wants to move in the first place, before worrying about immigration issues.
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Old Mar 5th 2007, 12:36 am
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Default Re: *Vent* shackled by circumstance

Originally Posted by JAJ
I can't imagine that parents can restrain an 18 year old, but you might then have the problem that a child of that age might not be "dependent" on you and hence ineligible to migrate to the "other" country involved.

I think you need to first sort out whether your husband wants to move in the first place, before worrying about immigration issues.
Oh, my child is only 7 months old, a long way from 18
I meant that part of my post for dingbat as she seems to be stuck here because of dependent children with her ex.
My husband doesn't want to move really, but he is becoming more open to the idea as long as we can figure something out that works and isn't too risky with all of our bases covered. The onus is on me to figure it all out on my own.
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Old Mar 5th 2007, 2:00 am
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Default Re: *Vent* shackled by circumstance

Originally Posted by nohinsara


My God woman, I am SO sorry for your circumstance, your post made me want to cry! I just really don't know what to say - your experiences with your ex really scare me. I can't imagine the pain you must have gone through at the hands of this degenerate! Right now my DH is fairly understanding, and even open to the idea of me going over with my son first, but I worry so much that he will become nasty one day and realize he really does have me over a barrel. I don't think he has any idea of his rights at the moment, but I have always had them in the back of my mind.
How old are you kids? Is it true that once they turn 18 you will be able to take them and go? Once again, I'm sorry this horrible province has been so unkind to you. Another reason for me to hate it
No, the age 18 means nothing here. Kids in BC have to no longer be "children of the marriage" which means when they are either no longer in full time University and/or dependent on you, or working full time and out of high school for at least two years, married themselves or in the Armed forces if under 19, or over 19. You cannot take kids out of the country or province and in some cases, the town without written permission of the father if there is a dispute in the courts. A child cannot get a passport without BOTH parents signing the form, if there is a joint custody or even just joint guardianship situation. I will be retired when the youngest turns 18. My choices are few and far between, not many of them legal. I have however figured it out, with the help of a few friends who know the law in the UK and how I can (and now have) used it.
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Old Mar 5th 2007, 4:03 pm
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Default Re: *Vent* shackled by circumstance

Nohinsara - Do you have a home to sell here? Would that give you some equity to take with you and help set you up in England. I know you said your husband is open to you taking the responsibility of working in England, what is it you do? Is there a chance that you could work first and he be a house husband, caring for your son? Then it would give him a chance to see what jobs are out there for him.

My husband received a verbal offer of a job and we are just waiting for the written confirmation. We found that agencies in England are far more proactive than the ones in Vancouver. In Canada there is more networking that goes on to get a job and that's hard to break into as a newcomer but in England more positions are placed through agencies and headhunters.

Just a few thoughts for you to consider.....
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Old Mar 5th 2007, 7:06 pm
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Default Re: *Vent* shackled by circumstance

Originally Posted by fishfinger
Nohinsara - Do you have a home to sell here? Would that give you some equity to take with you and help set you up in England. I know you said your husband is open to you taking the responsibility of working in England, what is it you do? Is there a chance that you could work first and he be a house husband, caring for your son? Then it would give him a chance to see what jobs are out there for him.

My husband received a verbal offer of a job and we are just waiting for the written confirmation. We found that agencies in England are far more proactive than the ones in Vancouver. In Canada there is more networking that goes on to get a job and that's hard to break into as a newcomer but in England more positions are placed through agencies and headhunters.

Just a few thoughts for you to consider.....
Hi Fishfinger,

We do have a condo here, and have considered selling it to come up with the capital to get ourselves over there. It's probably the only thing we could do, but I don't know how much we would have left over to take with us once my student loans (here) were paid off. The condo needs updating before it could be sold for profit, so it would require more money to be thrown at it first. Still it's something.

My husband is perfectly willing to be a house hubby and have me work for a bit. Here's the problem:
I would have to be my hubby's sponsor for his spousal visa. This is because we don't know anyone close enough to ask to be his sponsor over there. That means that I MUST go over first (alone or with my son) to set up work and flat before my husband can come over. This is why I'm so depressed right now. I don't know how the heck I can manage it... I mean I know I can't be apart from my son, so he and I would have to go over together (with written permission from DH of course) first.
How would we live? No place to stay, no job and then the prospect of trying to find child care and a job....

I (of course) prefer the way employment is run in London to here... you're right, the agencies are awesome for finding work, and there's just SO much work over there as a opposed to here. I do office work (office admin, so I could probably get a PA role or something) and I'm sure I would have no trouble finding employment there. It's just the problem of my son and I getting set up and child care that weighs on me. I don't know how we'd do it.

I suppose I could go way out on a limb and ask Dh's sister's husband's parents to be our sponsor, but I feel like cringing at the prospect! I've met them ONCE!

No, the age 18 means nothing here. Kids in BC have to no longer be "children of the marriage" which means when they are either no longer in full time University and/or dependent on you, or working full time and out of high school for at least two years, married themselves or in the Armed forces if under 19, or over 19. You cannot take kids out of the country or province and in some cases, the town without written permission of the father if there is a dispute in the courts. A child cannot get a passport without BOTH parents signing the form, if there is a joint custody or even just joint guardianship situation. I will be retired when the youngest turns 18. My choices are few and far between, not many of them legal. I have however figured it out, with the help of a few friends who know the law in the UK and how I can (and now have) used it.
Dingbat, I feel I must search the ends of the earth now to get us out of this country to avoid this happening. Things are ok between DH and I for now, but God help me if that ever changed.
I'm very relieved to hear that you've figured it out somehow though and hope to see a post from you saying you're back in England soon. I have my fingers crossed for you!
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Old Mar 5th 2007, 8:05 pm
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Exclamation Re: *Vent* shackled by circumstance

Wow......what a difficult situation you ladies are in.

I have to admit that I'm very worried about my friend; we are in the US and she is an Aussie expat with two children whom has recently taken up US citizenship. She went through a very nasty divorce and her ex returned to Australia. The children were visiting their granny in Sydney and the ex had them stopped at the airport when they checked in for their flight back to the States; he had gone to a magistrate in Brisbane on a Sunday morning to get a court order, so they were stopped by the Australian Federal Police and Aus. Immigration at the airport. Fortunately it was resolved and the children are back in the US with their mother.

The reason why I'm worried about her is that she has fallen in love with a younger American guy. Her plan has always been to live in the States to make some money and return to Australia (in approx 5 years time) so her eldest can go to High School there. However, her boyfriend does not have children of his own and he is desperately keen for her to have his baby - and she has just turned 40.

Now this guy is quite possessive and before moving in with my friend was living with his mother down the street. She says that he would go and live in Australia with her but I'm convinced that if she has a baby with him and makes firm plans to return Down Under, he won't let 'his' child go and she will be trapped here until the child is 18 and she will be nearly 60. She is 'blinded' by love and I'm sure she will be making a baby announcement soon.

I often wonder if it is possible for a 'pre-nuptial' agreement to be binding and lawful if there is a child born to parents of different nationalities AND one of the parents had always made the intention to allow the child/family to live in the other parent's country? Probably not.

However - my point is - ladies please acquaint yourselves with the international agreements with many countries regarding international child abduction. When my friend's children were detained in Australia, I did some research and discovered the website of a British charity which gives advice to parents whose children are involved in a dispute and are at risk or have been taken overseas without the agreement of the other parent. In *some* cases the Courts take the view that if a child has been resident in one place for 6 months or more, then it is deemed to be in the child's best interest to continue to reside there. She found a solicitor practising in Brisbane on the Reunite website who specialises in international child abduction and it was expensive to get him to assist her.

Please read up on the information on this website - I hope it is of some use to you, even if it may say something you don't agree with:

http://www.reunite.org (there are messageboards too)

I hope that you can find a way to return 'home' with your children, with or without your spouses.

Last edited by Englishmum; Mar 5th 2007 at 8:09 pm.
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Old Mar 5th 2007, 8:31 pm
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Default Re: *Vent* shackled by circumstance

Originally Posted by Englishmum
Wow......what a difficult situation you ladies are in.

I have to admit that I'm very worried about my friend; we are in the US and she is an Aussie expat with two children whom has recently taken up US citizenship. She went through a very nasty divorce and her ex returned to Australia. The children were visiting their granny in Sydney and the ex had them stopped at the airport when they checked in for their flight back to the States; he had gone to a magistrate in Brisbane on a Sunday morning to get a court order, so they were stopped by the Australian Federal Police and Aus. Immigration at the airport. Fortunately it was resolved and the children are back in the US with their mother.

The reason why I'm worried about her is that she has fallen in love with a younger American guy. Her plan has always been to live in the States to make some money and return to Australia (in approx 5 years time) so her eldest can go to High School there. However, her boyfriend does not have children of his own and he is desperately keen for her to have his baby - and she has just turned 40.

Now this guy is quite possessive and before moving in with my friend was living with his mother down the street. She says that he would go and live in Australia with her but I'm convinced that if she has a baby with him and makes firm plans to return Down Under, he won't let 'his' child go and she will be trapped here until the child is 18 and she will be nearly 60. She is 'blinded' by love and I'm sure she will be making a baby announcement soon.

I often wonder if it is possible for a 'pre-nuptial' agreement to be binding and lawful if there is a child born to parents of different nationalities AND one of the parents had always made the intention to allow the child/family to live in the other parent's country? Probably not.

However - my point is - ladies please acquaint yourselves with the international agreements with many countries regarding international child abduction. When my friend's children were detained in Australia, I did some research and discovered the website of a British charity which gives advice to parents whose children are involved in a dispute and are at risk or have been taken overseas without the agreement of the other parent. In *some* cases the Courts take the view that if a child has been resident in one place for 6 months or more, then it is deemed to be in the child's best interest to continue to reside there. She found a solicitor practising in Brisbane on the Reunite website who specialises in international child abduction and it was expensive to get him to assist her.

Please read up on the information on this website - I hope it is of some use to you, even if it may say something you don't agree with:

http://www.reunite.org (there are messageboards too)

I hope that you can find a way to return 'home' with your children, with or without your spouses.
Dads have rights too. Apparently Canada IS the home of the children in question.
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Old Mar 5th 2007, 8:46 pm
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Default Re: *Vent* shackled by circumstance

Originally Posted by Mallory
Dads have rights too. Apparently Canada IS the home of the children in question.
Ordinarily I would agree with you, if the Dad in question is an active, loving and supportive parent. Children are not possessions, their home is where their lives are, with the parent who provides for them emotionally and financially. A life on the poverty line, in a foreign country, constantly being held to financial ransom by the parent who abandoned them in the first place is not a home.
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Old Mar 5th 2007, 10:37 pm
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Cool Re: *Vent* shackled by circumstance

Originally Posted by dingbat
Ordinarily I would agree with you, if the Dad in question is an active, loving and supportive parent. Children are not possessions, their home is where their lives are, with the parent who provides for them emotionally and financially. A life on the poverty line, in a foreign country, constantly being held to financial ransom by the parent who abandoned them in the first place is not a home.
You are in a difficult situation for sure, but the most important person in this "is your child." Would you move your child 5,000 miles away, so that dad and child could not see each other? That would be heart-wrenching for all of you.

I came to the USA with a 5-month-old, and then had another. This was in the days before "forums." Certainly we had our arguments, and there were tears. If we had got divorced, I would never have taken my children away from their father. I would have divorced, and got on with it in the US. Kids don't care if their dad isn't the best dad in the world, but they do want to know him.

You came here looking for opinions, and that's mine.
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Old Mar 5th 2007, 11:07 pm
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Default Re: *Vent* shackled by circumstance

Ummm... actually I came here to vent about my circumstances. My husband is willing to consider moving to the UK together, including our son. He is even willing to allow me to go to the UK first with our son and then follow us.

Dingbat came here to tell me of her experiences with the laws governing this province in regards to children and spouses, not to get other people's opinions on her personal experiences,
or at least that's the way I've interpreted it.

Not that your opinion isn't welcome, I welcome everyone's opinion. I just don't want Dingbat to get flamed for a thread I made. Heck, I don't want anyone to get flamed for any reason!
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Old Mar 5th 2007, 11:37 pm
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Default Re: *Vent* shackled by circumstance

Originally Posted by Mallory
You are in a difficult situation for sure, but the most important person in this "is your child." Would you move your child 5,000 miles away, so that dad and child could not see each other? That would be heart-wrenching for all of you.

I came to the USA with a 5-month-old, and then had another. This was in the days before "forums." Certainly we had our arguments, and there were tears. If we had got divorced, I would never have taken my children away from their father. I would have divorced, and got on with it in the US. Kids don't care if their dad isn't the best dad in the world, but they do want to know him.

You came here looking for opinions, and that's mine.
Actually, with respect, I did not ask for your opinion. You state that you have never been in this particular position and make rather naive assumptions about what you think you would do if you were. All very nice, but you do not have a clue what you are talking about. Perhaps it would have been wiser not to sit in judgement without the experience to back you up......
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