Inselaffen

From my recent personal experience they definitely have to do something about labour laws here, and I can imagine the situation is far worse for labourers.

I quit my job because my company changed my working conditions in a major way after I arrived here, but they have made things so difficult after I resigned that I really didnt want to go on with life! luckily Ive had the support of family back in the UK.

I am hoping to make a real go at living in Dubai once my current problems are resolved but I dont think I can ever relax and be comfortable here after this!

Eeyore

Indeed they are. But in the UK, and indeed most other developed countries, that exploitation is (rightly) illegal, and it's stamped out where possible. Here, the exploitation is not only legal, it's the entire basis of the economy.

You're quite right that globalisation has made it impossible *not* to buy goods made under slave conditions. That's exactly why so many people are campaigning to improve the lives of the people forced to make them.

Like I said, Chris, I was brought up to be a thinking, questioning human being with a social conscience. I can't just turn that off. If people like twistopher can, then maybe that's an advantage... but to be honest, it's an advantage that I'm glad I don't have.

So we should just accept it? Maybe just shake our heads every so often and say "That's terrible", but basically just accept it as some immutable law of the universe than can never be changed?

Sorry Chris, but that's bollocks. If everyone thought that way, then the UK would still be full of peasants toiling away with no legal rights and no social mobility, at the bottom of a non-democratic feudal system presided over by an all-powerful monarch who was accountable to no-one and could change the law on a whim (hmmm, sounds familiar).

Everything that's worth having about modern society was only obtained because people saw injustices and stood up to fight them - hence why I said previously that dissent and criticism are absolutely necessary for the healthy development of any society.

Er - no. If you haven't been a victim, then you're in the majority. The idea that crime lurks around every street corner in the UK is tabloid nonsense.

Yes, some parts of the UK have high crime rates... but they're highly localised and easily avoided with a bit of common sense. For example, where we used to live in the UK, the nearest big town was Romford, which has a terrible reputation for crime, mostly personal violence.

Thing is, it was perfectly safe to walk around Romford in the day and the evening... the only dangerous period was at 3am, when the clubs kicked out the boozed-up chavs looking for a fight. *That* was what gave Romford its high crime figures and bad reputation - but people only want to look at the topline figure and be shocked by it, they don't want to look at the analysis which reveals that actually, Romford is a perfectly safe place to be as long as you're not in the High Street at club-kicking-out time.

Blue Cat

correct, the inflation of rents has been down to the influx of 'new' people into Dubai - why is that?? not cos of their greed but because of the greed of the companies who brought them here. They were after the 'slave' labour and the tax free benefits. About two years or so ago 7days did an article about the new dubai and it's trailer trash mentality (I am not referring to you Gareth) but I do meet a hell of alot of people in my line of work. The ones that moan aint the ones that have been here ten years or more, no they are all as happy as larry!, it is the ones who have been here less than two years or so. It's a shame the didn't see the Dubai some of lived in years ago. I remember walking my dog on the vast expanse of sand that I probably now live on! What's the point in dwelling the past, we live for our future not our past

Shiva - Newcastle or Dubai??? I had two cars nicked in Newcastle

shiva

ok so i lived in a nice area but when the crime came to me, car stolen 3 times and house broken into that was my fault cos obviously i could have avoided it. Why should you have to stay away from a city centre at night, if your out with your friends you have the right to expect to not be assaulted, say what you like but crime in the Uk and the justice system is a joke.

i too was brought up as a thinker however that doesnt mean i cant see the all too harsh reality that massive global financial differences are here to stay, frankly when it comes down to joe blogs losing out so that sajit,abdul, etc can learn to read and eat meat more than once in a blue moon, forget about it, people are all for equality until you tell them their next tellie will cost £500 instead of £100 and fruit now costs triple. thats not to mention that he may lose his job and own lifestyle so that others can share his wealth.
yes its a load of bollocks and it should change, but sadly it wont and frankly too many people with too much invested in the situation will ensure that it doesnt. over throwing feudal monarchys was easy, the might of global industrialisation, forget about it it aint happening.

Eeyore

Of course they are, because they're the ones most likely to have been brought here under the old-style feather-bed expat packages - villa paid, school fees paid, possibly car and petrol paid, etc.

It's easy to be happy as Larry under those circumstances...

shiva

shes right and it goes deeper than mere salary and package, its a mentality

Eeyore

Come on Chris, that's not what I was saying, and you know it.

Indeed. But what's easier - reasoning with a pissed-up chav, or just staying away from the High Street at 3am?

The justice system indeed needs reform. But the idea that crime is rife everywhere in the UK is nonsense. Whenever I go back to the UK, I feel just as safe as I do here... and I feel a lot safer on UK roads!

So does that mean that people shouldn't speak out against it? Shouldn't do what they can to *try* and change it?

jvr20

Would you elaborate please? Seriously, I'd like to know what you mean by a difference in mentality between those who arrived 'back in the day' when the 'Trade Centre was all there was and there was desert between Dubia and Sharjah' and more recent arrivals... Is it that the early arrivals were pleasantly surprised with the package they got and what they found out here whereas subsequently people started expecting it as a 'right', for example? And how does this difference in outlook manifest itself (apart from a difference - possibly perceived - in a propensity to 'moan'?) Again, a genuine request to know, not a confrontational challenge! I'm still new here and haven't really experienced this delta in the outlooks of different 'vintages' of Western expat

Eeyore

And that mentality is intrinsically linked to salary and package.

If those people suddenly had all their benefits withdrawn and had to start paying for their rent and school fees out of their own pockets, you'd see a rapid change in outlook.

FACT.

(I've wanted to do a "FACT" for ages)

W10

Just out of interest, what about the people who are here - don't like it but realise we are here for a certain reason.

What about the people who are here and do try to make a difference during their time here, by changing the system or by smaller means - helping charities, giving their time to help others or even just tipping people (I'm amazed how many people begrudge paying a Dh10 tip...its 1.50 people!!) and paying people a reasonable amount of money (you know, you CAN pay you maid more if you want to)

I don't like Dubai that much. It has some good points, but more bad points at the moment. It's certainly not a place I'd want to bring up a family (a point re-enforced by most of my long term expat-brat friends who told me how much they struggled when they went to study in the UK)

I also leave Dubai a lot to actually go and see the wider-region, which is wonderful and endlessly fascinating.

I like the UK, but I also like the world. I will live in the UK and I will leave the UK, because quite simply. There are great life experiences all over the place. When I'm old and grey. I doubt that Dubai will feature highly on my scale of happiness.

When I've made enough money I will leave, I won't miss it particularly and it's unlikely I'll come back.

shiva

people are welcome to try but it will be a wasted effort, if you want to enrichen lives just give some random labourer/low salary individual a few thousand bucks it will achieve far more

shiva

its not just salary but people who were willing to move somewhere extremely different and who dont expect here to be the same as home. in fact the more alike they get the more they will want to move again

W10

The odd thing is that I've been involved in more aggressive situations in Dubai than I have in the UK, be it some guy in a Landcruiser trying to deliberately slam me into a barrier at 140kmh (true) to a pissed up expat trying to start fights in clubs and bars.

Also, crime depends on where you are here. It's just that we are at the top end. Go and check out the murder rate here. You'll be shocked. It's just that the murders are all involving those low paid guys we don't care about.

Quick scan of the GN archive indicates 10 murder cases in the last 5 weeks

Eeyore

I would guess that it breaks down something like this :

10 years ago, Dubai was still largely considered a hardship posting; there was much less to do, far fewer leisure options. Staff had to be enticed to come here, which meant big packages with everything paid for. If you were on an expat package 10 years ago, even a relatively modest one, you could live like a king and still shovel money into a savings account. It was a *great* time to be an expat.

Fast-forward 10 years, and thanks to Dubai's expansion and slick marketing, it's not a hardship posting any more. Because the cost of living has risen so dramatically, companies are doing their best to lowball new staff, and they're not offering them the old-style expat packages. Dubai is now an expensive place to live, and without the large financial cushion still enjoyed by the expats who got here 10 years ago, incomers are finding that, despite what the marketing promised, the streets *aren't* paved with gold.

Inevitably, they're going to voice their feelings about this state of affairs

W10

Are you talking about old or new expats - I don't see much differnce in those respects (in fact I'd say old expats are more 'Brit' than the new ones - how many long termers can speak arabic, or read it or have been to all of the countries in the Middle East, or can talk about Middle Eastern geopolitics - the good old days always seems to revolve around drinking in expat bars)