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-   -   UK to Riyadh salary advice (https://britishexpats.com/forum/middle-east-60/uk-riyadh-salary-advice-916618/)

Azzab13 Aug 28th 2018 9:06 pm

UK to Riyadh salary advice
 
Hi,

i have been been offered a job in the financial services industry in KSA and I just wanted to get peoples viewpoints on what is a good salary.

A bit bit of background I currently earn gbp 68000 with all benefits in the uk and I will be moving my wife and two kids with me. I have 6 years of specialised expereince. They have stated that salary is negiotable and asked me to come up with a figure. I have in mind about SAR 50000 a month baring in mind the accommodation, cost of living, travel, etc. Crunching through the numbers does doesn’t sound too outrageous however I wanted to get peoples viewpoint.

they also said to come up with 9ne salary figure that includes all the costs mentioned above. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Also in terms of negiotating the salary does anyone have any tips on this?

kindest regards
aaron

FriendlyExpat Sep 2nd 2018 2:19 pm

Re: UK to Riyadh salary advice
 
Lot of variability but I have seen people from UK getting UK salary + 25% uplift + accommodation allowance (between £30k - £50k for Riyadh compounds) + schooling + some extras (like additional flights, medical insurance, family visa costs taken care of) but no car. I heard rumours that some companies do "tax equalisation" so they reduce your salary to account for the fact that it's tax free, but I've never seen that myself. Also make sure you + family will get continuous entry/exit visas paid for by the employer, and an iqama (residence permit), not a business visit visa in a category that will allow you to bring out your family. If you're on solid ground maybe ask what their nitaqat (percentage of Saudi employees) rating is (if too low they cannot issue any more expat visas, which is a problem). They should also cover your family's visa medical test costs and initial transport out, plus maybe a relocation allowance at start and end (maybe cash + a crate shipped to KSA plus initial hotel + rental car for a few weeks while you find somewhere to stay) plus cost of annual UK tax return filing and initial tax advice from a decent firm. Beware that it'll take (at best) a few weeks after you arrive before your family can come. If you get a UK bonus discuss how that will be assessed - on same basis as at present? Also, there is now a monthly charge on expat family members, which might be paid by you or perhaps by the employer (relatively negligible at present e.g. something like £700/year per family member, but due to increase significantly over the next few years and may eventually become a full on expat tax).

As for negotiating, try to get them to make the first offer (they might surprise you - unless you are pretty sure they'll low-ball you, in which case get in first) and then pick one item to negotiate on. Also check how much vacation you get - 30 days a year is normal plus 2 week long holidays each year to account for Eid and Ramadan - and that the working week is 5 days a week.

This is assuming your skill is in demand in KSA. If you work in an area where other nationalities can be easily hired more cheaply (e.g. potentially some back office financial service functions) you may have significantly less leverage and thus not able to ask for quite so much.

Note also that this is (I believe) better than equivalent positions pay in e.g. the UAE as it's much harder to get people to move to KSA and the market here is doing (relatively) well unlike most of the rest of the GCC.

nonthaburi Sep 2nd 2018 7:02 pm

Re: UK to Riyadh salary advice
 

Originally Posted by Azzab13 (Post 12555713)
Hi,

i have been been offered a job in the financial services industry in KSA and I just wanted to get peoples viewpoints on what is a good salary.

A bit bit of background I currently earn gbp 68000 with all benefits in the uk and I will be moving my wife and two kids with me. I have 6 years of specialised expereince. They have stated that salary is negiotable and asked me to come up with a figure. I have in mind about SAR 50000 a month baring in mind the accommodation, cost of living, travel, etc. Crunching through the numbers does doesn’t sound too outrageous however I wanted to get peoples viewpoint.

they also said to come up with 9ne salary figure that includes all the costs mentioned above. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Also in terms of negiotating the salary does anyone have any tips on this?

kindest regards
aaron

Not exactly related I know but worth mentioning.

NEVER UNDERESTIMATE the strain or problems that you MAY encounter with your wife as a result of living in KSA. There will be moments over the course of your stay that could possibly be testing.

You can find out an awful lot about someone in KSA.

The last thing you want is to be in a bad working environment, going home to an even worse home environment.

sicklyman Sep 3rd 2018 9:54 am

Re: UK to Riyadh salary advice
 

Originally Posted by nonthaburi (Post 12557711)
NEVER UNDERESTIMATE the strain or problems that you MAY encounter

IOW, do not reduce your salary beyond the point where it does not compensate you for this even if the resulting figure seems extravagant. Coming here for less than you are (all) happy with is not to be contemplated.

And he's right BTW.

Me 2.0 Sep 4th 2018 5:25 pm

Re: UK to Riyadh salary advice
 
If your total package for doing job X in Dubai is, say, $100, is there a rule of thumb that tells you what you’d get for the same job in Riyadh?

omega7 Sep 4th 2018 7:29 pm

Re: UK to Riyadh salary advice
 

Originally Posted by Me 2.0 (Post 12558538)
If your total package for doing job X in Dubai is, say, $100, is there a rule of thumb that tells you what you’d get for the same job in Riyadh?

It'll vary as people have different preferences. Some would never go to KSA (or at least that's what they say) for any amount. A minimum increase could be 30% (arbitrary, true, but want to try to help). If it was Eastern Province (e.g. Khobar) it could drop to 20%, because of Bahrain.

Me 2.0 Sep 5th 2018 3:10 am

Re: UK to Riyadh salary advice
 
Is 30% what people actually ask for and get? Trying to find out what’s market.

Charl01 Sep 5th 2018 7:10 am

Re: UK to Riyadh salary advice
 
It's not an easy place....but it gets better. But I agree 100% with what was said here. The financial compensation is what draw us all here, unless of course you are Muslim, then the tipping point is purely religion, but for us other infidels it is all about the money.

Don't hesitate to ask more, if the company feels you are worth it, they will be willing to negotiate. Sadly the Saudi market is down a bit so many companies cannot negotiate that much anymore (unlike the past), without killing their bottom line

Scamp Sep 5th 2018 11:50 am

Re: UK to Riyadh salary advice
 

Originally Posted by Me 2.0 (Post 12558702)
Is 30% what people actually ask for and get? Trying to find out what’s market.

Not across the board, no.

10% is probably realistic.

Me 2.0 Sep 5th 2018 3:54 pm

Re: UK to Riyadh salary advice
 
Only a 10% uplift on Dubai? Surprising and disappointing if true.

omega7 Sep 5th 2018 4:53 pm

Re: UK to Riyadh salary advice
 
I think there are two kinds of uplifts in our discussion.

1. What one should choose if two offers are extended, one in Dubai and one in KSA. In such case the 30% differential is a reasonable uplift. But it is up to one's preference.

2. The second is about what an employer would pay for the same job in dubai and in KSA. I cant talk for many sectors or functions, but in senior planning, strategy jobs in oil and gas or consumer goods, KSA would certainly pay the 30% uplift vs. Dubai. But for example this may not hold true in teaching positions in schools or academia.

The OP was about what uplift to expect vs. Dubai. I dont see how/why one would move from dxb to ksa for 10%, hence the employer would not extend an offer at such low level. Now of course if you get a ridiculous high salary in dxb, an employer in ksa will not be able beat it, but in such case why would anyone want to move to ksa to begin with. He can happily stay with his generous salary in dxb.

Generally it is a common practice in ksa for employers to beat salaries by a factor so as to attract individuals, as they are aware that ksa is not anyone's first choice.

Scamp Sep 6th 2018 7:00 am

Re: UK to Riyadh salary advice
 

Originally Posted by Me 2.0 (Post 12558981)
Only a 10% uplift on Dubai? Surprising and disappointing if true.

Every sector and business is different but we're not paying much more than 10%. More often it's a case of, do you want to continue to be employed?

When Dubai is flooded with opportunities the number will increase. When things are slow like they are now, the uplift plummets.


Originally Posted by omega7 (Post 12559001)
The OP was about what uplift to expect vs. Dubai. I dont see how/why one would move from dxb to ksa for 10%, hence the employer would not extend an offer at such low level.

I see lots of people move for the same money.

I also see lots of people coming from KSA to Dubai and not wanting to accept a pay cut of 10%+.....the very same people who demand shit loads more to go to KSA in the first place. :rofl:

Me 2.0 Sep 6th 2018 7:23 am

Re: UK to Riyadh salary advice
 
All noted. The scenario here is a good job in Dubai that pays fine and seems as secure as any. No need to move unless for a material benefit, money being the one that interests me. Is asking for 30% more overall likely to be dismissed as off-market?

weasel decentral Sep 6th 2018 7:52 am

Re: UK to Riyadh salary advice
 

Originally Posted by Me 2.0 (Post 12559247)
All noted. The scenario here is a good job in Dubai that pays fine and seems as secure as any. No need to move unless for a material benefit, money being the one that interests me. Is asking for 30% more overall likely to be dismissed as off-market?

It's hard to tell without knowing the specifics of any role. But if you are not too bothered about waiting or can continue in your current role, then why not apply 30% uplift as your minimum requirement eventually someone in KSA might take a bite.

Scamp Sep 6th 2018 8:20 am

Re: UK to Riyadh salary advice
 

Originally Posted by weasel decentral (Post 12559252)
It's hard to tell without knowing the specifics of any role. But if you are not too bothered about waiting or can continue in your current role, then why not apply 30% uplift as your minimum requirement eventually someone in KSA might take a bite.

What he said.

Me 2.0 Sep 6th 2018 10:33 am

Re: UK to Riyadh salary advice
 
Seems there’s no rule then. Or if there is then no one knows what it is.

Scamp Sep 6th 2018 10:41 am

Re: UK to Riyadh salary advice
 

Originally Posted by Me 2.0 (Post 12559294)
Seems there’s no rule then. Or if there is then no one knows what it is.

Depends, there are 'rules of thumb' but you're asking on the internet where everyone pretends to be really important and says "I wouldn't even say Saudi Arabia unless I was given 50% more money" and all that shit, when in reality, a lot would go if it meant remaining employed in a tax free environment.

Every situation, industry, position and person provides multiple paths to go down.

Unless I knew a lot more about your situation I wouldn't want to tell you what to expect to go to KSA. I can tell you that I know we'll pay about 10% premium....that's as helpful as anyone can be I think.

Millhouse Sep 6th 2018 10:41 am

Re: UK to Riyadh salary advice
 

Originally Posted by Me 2.0 (Post 12559294)
Seems there’s no rule then. Or if there is then no one knows what it is.

why would there be a rule?

I know people who earn less in KSA vs UAE for the same job... cost of living is much lower and they save more. It's all about the bottom line.

Me 2.0 Sep 6th 2018 10:51 am

Re: UK to Riyadh salary advice
 

Originally Posted by Millhouse (Post 12559300)
why would there be a rule?

I know people who earn less in KSA vs UAE for the same job... cost of living is much lower and they save more. It's all about the bottom line.

I didn’t say there would be a rule. I asked whether there is one.

littlejimmy Sep 6th 2018 12:53 pm

Re: UK to Riyadh salary advice
 
What's Jubail like as a location? I see on google maps that it's only 2 hours' drive from Bahrain. Asking for a friend...

omega7 Sep 6th 2018 2:30 pm

Re: UK to Riyadh salary advice
 

Originally Posted by Scamp (Post 12559240)
Every sector and business is different but we're not paying much more than 10%. More often it's a case of, do you want to continue to be employed?

When Dubai is flooded with opportunities the number will increase. When things are slow like they are now, the uplift plummets.



I see lots of people move for the same money.

I also see lots of people coming from KSA to Dubai and not wanting to accept a pay cut of 10%+.....the very same people who demand shit loads more to go to KSA in the first place. :rofl:

I can see the logic of people who have settled in ksa, especially in eastern province close to bahrain, who wouldnt be ready to have a pay cut to move to Dubai. After all, any such cut would only get worse when living expenses were factored in.

But is there truly someone who would go to ksa JUST for the 10% rise (i.e everything else being equal)? I cant think of anyone...again on the understanding that the sole driver is the pay rise.

Re the OP...irrespective of the location, changing jobs for just 10% makes little sense (again assuming that the next job is perceived to be equally attractive with the current). This is because the current job has a factual value that you know for certain, whereas the new job's value can only be perceived. And you can get it wrong. So for 10%, why risk it?

So 10% doesnt sound as a reasonable incentive to begin with, even for the same location. If one factors in the location basis, then inevitably the premium should be higher (my thinking at least, and others might feel otherwise).

omega7 Sep 6th 2018 2:32 pm

Re: UK to Riyadh salary advice
 

Originally Posted by littlejimmy (Post 12559339)
What's Jubail like as a location? I see on google maps that it's only 2 hours' drive from Bahrain. Asking for a friend...

Terrible location, and the 2h drive that you saw is misleading...it could easily take 3 to 4 hours from Jubail, precisely around the times/days that your friend would want to visit bahrain.

littlejimmy Sep 6th 2018 3:22 pm

Re: UK to Riyadh salary advice
 

Originally Posted by omega7 (Post 12559385)
Terrible location, and the 2h drive that you saw is misleading...it could easily take 3 to 4 hours from Jubail, precisely around the times/days that your friend would want to visit bahrain.

OK, thanks. What is so terrible about it? I've heard it's quite a polluted place.

omega7 Sep 6th 2018 5:26 pm

Re: UK to Riyadh salary advice
 

Originally Posted by littlejimmy (Post 12559407)
OK, thanks. What is so terrible about it? I've heard it's quite a polluted place.

pollution is key...it is also far away from khobar, let alone bahrain, and lacks real diversity in its crowd. Now are there worse places in ksa...? I guess. But it is not a place one goes for a 10% salary increase.

nonthaburi Sep 6th 2018 8:27 pm

Re: UK to Riyadh salary advice
 
Worth mentioning but IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT THE MONEY!!!
I'm fairly sure from time spent here that people in UAE work way harder and for far longer hours.

​​​​​​Personally speaking, I have:
a one minute drive to work
sign in at 7am and leave at 12:45pm....every day
three day weekend every four weeks
three weeks for Ramadan
two for the other Eid
plus my thirty days
normally get another bonus few weeks given extra.
live next door to the airport, ten minute walk to check-in

I'm an extreme example, but personally I'd want more cash to go the other way to compensate me for all the stuff I'd be giving up.

Me 2.0 Sep 7th 2018 2:59 am

Re: UK to Riyadh salary advice
 
You’re cabin crew?

omega7 Sep 7th 2018 4:41 am

Re: UK to Riyadh salary advice
 

Originally Posted by nonthaburi (Post 12559558)
Worth mentioning but IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT THE MONEY!!!
I'm fairly sure from time spent here that people in UAE work way harder and for far longer hours.

​​​​​​Personally speaking, I have:
a one minute drive to work
sign in at 7am and leave at 12:45pm....every day
three day weekend every four weeks
three weeks for Ramadan
two for the other Eid
plus my thirty days
normally get another bonus few weeks given extra.
live next door to the airport, ten minute walk to check-in

I'm an extreme example, but personally I'd want more cash to go the other way to compensate me for all the stuff I'd be giving up.

Which is why it was empasized that these uplifts can only apply for a like to like job (which of course is arbitrary as such qualification isnt really possible).

So of course it is not just about the money but the OP was focused on trading off location for an uplift. If you add more criteria then you cant really consult a forum as it becomes more of a personal choice and less of a data-driven decision, and in such case concrete advice cannot be offered through a brief text, bur rather through a friendly chat.

nonthaburi Sep 7th 2018 5:26 am

Re: UK to Riyadh salary advice
 

Originally Posted by Me 2.0 (Post 12559694)
You’re cabin crew?

errr no.

nonthaburi Sep 7th 2018 5:29 am

Re: UK to Riyadh salary advice
 

Originally Posted by omega7 (Post 12559719)
Which is why it was empasized that these uplifts can only apply for a like to like job (which of course is arbitrary as such qualification isnt really possible).

So of course it is not just about the money but the OP was focused on trading off location for an uplift. If you add more criteria then you cant really consult a forum as it becomes more of a personal choice and less of a data-driven decision, and in such case concrete advice cannot be offered through a brief text, bur rather through a friendly chat.

which kind of makes the whole thing pointless.

weasel decentral Sep 7th 2018 5:38 am

Re: UK to Riyadh salary advice
 

Originally Posted by nonthaburi (Post 12559723)
errr no.

No shame in wheeling a trolley at 30,000 feet mate :)

Me 2.0 Sep 7th 2018 5:48 am

Re: UK to Riyadh salary advice
 
Don’t think there’s anything pointless in asking whether doing a particular job in Riyadh would command an X% premium to doing the same job in Dubai.

weasel decentral Sep 7th 2018 6:17 am

Re: UK to Riyadh salary advice
 

Originally Posted by Me 2.0 (Post 12559731)
Don’t think there’s anything pointless in asking whether doing a particular job in Riyadh would command an X% premium to doing the same job in Dubai.

So what is the particular job?

Me 2.0 Sep 7th 2018 6:22 am

Re: UK to Riyadh salary advice
 
I’d rather not give details but in London terms it pays in the hundreds of thousands.

weasel decentral Sep 7th 2018 6:27 am

Re: UK to Riyadh salary advice
 

Originally Posted by Me 2.0 (Post 12559737)
I’d rather not give details but in London terms it pays in the hundreds of thousands.

The job field or the role description, not the actual company name or title. I'm assuming a certain level of intelligence is required for the job? :lol:

Me 2.0 Sep 7th 2018 6:37 am

Re: UK to Riyadh salary advice
 
Yes, a certain level.

weasel decentral Sep 7th 2018 7:21 am

Re: UK to Riyadh salary advice
 

Originally Posted by Me 2.0 (Post 12559744)
Yes, a certain level.

Would you say a level 30% higher if employed in KSA? :)

Millhouse Sep 7th 2018 7:55 am

Re: UK to Riyadh salary advice
 

Originally Posted by weasel decentral (Post 12559748)
Would you say a level 30% higher if employed in KSA? :)

Well that depends if others are getting that 😁

Millhouse Sep 7th 2018 7:56 am

Re: UK to Riyadh salary advice
 

Originally Posted by nonthaburi (Post 12559558)
Worth mentioning but IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT THE MONEY!!!
I'm fairly sure from time spent here that people in UAE work way harder and for far longer hours.

​​​​​​Personally speaking, I have:
a one minute drive to work
sign in at 7am and leave at 12:45pm....every day
three day weekend every four weeks
three weeks for Ramadan
two for the other Eid
plus my thirty days
normally get another bonus few weeks given extra.
live next door to the airport, ten minute walk to check-in

I'm an extreme example, but personally I'd want more cash to go the other way to compensate me for all the stuff I'd be giving up.

do you suffer airplane noise and pollution?

nonthaburi Sep 7th 2018 10:58 am

Re: UK to Riyadh salary advice
 

Originally Posted by Me 2.0 (Post 12559731)
Don’t think there’s anything pointless in asking whether doing a particular job in Riyadh would command an X% premium to doing the same job in Dubai.

but as others have said, there are so many other factors to compare that you shouldn't just be looking at the money.

And presumably different companies have different practices that may or may not change over time, and with the individual. How much they like that person, or need that person. You could go on forever about variables.

money saved is more important than money offered, and living conditions etc too.

nonthaburi Sep 7th 2018 11:12 am

Re: UK to Riyadh salary advice
 

Originally Posted by Millhouse (Post 12559758)


do you suffer airplane noise and pollution?

from the airport, no. I live on the military base next to the airport. We're parallel to the flightpath so hardly notice it. The mosques are louder.

it's a very local airport so not too many planes.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Nayef_bin_Abdulaziz_International_Airport?w prov=sfla1

pollution I've no idea about. The air seems to be quite good. Clear blue skies and so on. Get some terrible sandstorms sometimes though, but that's nothing to do with the actual airport.

the worst noise would be the army helicopters which fly right over my house at very low altitude. They make the house shake. That doesn't happen that frequently though.

it's actually a very peaceful place to live on the whole. If anything, it's too quiet.


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