Millhouse

This is exactly my point. Which is why the limit should be zero - I have felt completly fine after 2 pints in the past, other times I have felt pissed. It depends on so many factors.

Eva

I don't think calibration -that's what you mean isn't it ? is what I am saying.
If there is a zero tolerence rate, does it mean the guy who brushes his teeth and rinses three times with an alcohol infused mouthwash is as
drunkenly driving as the guy who had a glass of chablis 72 hours ago...

The Dean

Isn't that why you have to blow a whole lungful into the device? Alcoholic fumes in the mouth shouldn't register a reading.

Eva

When I was in Scotland-diff from Eng-the 'intoxicted' person could be
taken to the office on a visual contra RTA 1972- 5 OR 6.

The Dean

Could you translate that from Scottish to English please sweetpants?

Eva

No
Learn the superlative.

seven seas

Eva- good point about the 72 hours.I had forgotten about that.It would suck ass to get imprisoned because of a random check, and found to have a tiny amount of alcohol in my system from 2 days ago.Agree on zero limit, based on a set margin of error, and calibrate all devices the same way. Install them in all cars, so drivers can be sure..

Jeeper

Correct - it's the equivalent of saying it's illegal to drive at more than 120kph, and then not have speedometers in cars!
How would you know?

The only speed you can be certain of (without a source of measurement) is ZERO.
Same for alcohol.

Norm_uk

I see the point raised here.

But my response would what about people who know their limits. For example, I would need more than four pints before I would even get tipsy. I never drink an drive but if I had one pint then got in a car barely affected am I being irresponsible and should there be laws to stop me doing so?

Also, for the record I've been driving for a decade and only had one accident - someone came into the back of me while I was sat at a traffic light.

N.

Jeeper

No one would say you are being irresponsible for driving with one beer in you but what's the point in protesting to be able to have a beer?
It's a beer - who cares? Is it really that much to do without?

Millhouse

This is the problem. Your driving is already impaired by this stage and you still think you are ok.

so let's go for the middle ground - 2.5 pints, might you start to feel tired? of course.

Jeeper

I couldn't be a.rsed getting into the difference between 'feeling tipsy' and the brain being impaired to make reactions, decision etc. It's so boring and done to death over the years.
Still people will think they can handle more than others and perform the same.

When you start feeling tipsy you're way gone for driving....but 1 beer short of tipsy doesn't make you much better.

Patsy Stoned

I never drink and drive anymore...The last time I did it I spilt my drink!!!

seven seas

Irrelevant, and illogical. It's like trying to measure the effects of something with a device that's been exposed to the same force. Not a very elegant or meaningful sentence I guess.... Hey, my sentence is irrelevant and illogical!

OK, second try. There's no such thing as people's own limits. You don't know when you've had too much because the device being used to judge how sober you are is itself impaired (OK just a tiny bit) by the tiniest amount of alcohol. Obviously you can tell when you've had wayyy too much, and you can tell when you haven't had anything at all. But in the middle... There's no way anyone can say with accuracy "I've got a blood alcohol concentration of 0.056". There are so many factors to take into account that you cannot tell if you're "OK to drive".

Would you want your surgeon to self-certify he's "OK to start cutting"?
Or a pilot?
So what's the difference?



If you were the victim of an accident where the other driver admitted that he was kinda distracted because he was masturbating while driving- a totally needless act that could have been carried out at any time , just like drinking- how would you feel?


Irresponsible?
Are we not allowed to do anything that may impair our ability to drive? Driving while thinking about your debts? Driving while worried about your job? There are peopple whose normal mental capacity only slightly exceeds that of a gnat, and whose attentiveness would be dwarfed by my own even after 2 pints. They are still driving- are they irresponsible? Good question.

Jeeper

Good post aside from the last paragraph.......you lost me there.
Unless you are implying that humans can be unreliable in any state in which case i'd agree. There is no such thing as an accident....if there is a crash...a human has failed at some point.