quicksand

Hi
I’m in the process of negotiating a job in Riyadh for one of the major Saudi construction companies. If it pans out i would be coming over with my pregnant wife and therefore would be looking to get a place on a compound etc.

I have read a lot of blogs and posting and read most of the recent postings on this site which have been really useful. I was however looking for a bit more specific advice on my situation. The deal on the table at the moment seems to be:
Basic 280000 SAR pa
Housing allowance (3 months of basic) 70000 SAR pa
Car allowance (1 month of basic) 25000 SAR pa

This basic is a bit less than my UK wage at present but the agent keeping reminding me that it is tax free and that Saudi is very very cheap to live. When i take into account the loss of earning that my wife will have (even reduced for mat leave etc) it is even more of a pay decrease like for like.
I have stated that I don’t want to look for accommodation myself as I’m aware of the massive shortage and would expect the company to sort this out; however the agent still seems to be talking about the allowance but has said that the company has a great HR department and they might be able to help. So nothing concrete at the moment.

They have said that it will take 6 months for my wife to be able to come out (by which time she hopefully will be just about to pop). This could be a rough 6 months? They have also told me that it is a 6 day week and i’ll be working 10 hours a day. So even when she is there it would seem i won’t be around much? I’ve seen a lot of postings about the mental traffic so do i need to add a couple of hours commute onto that? (i’ll be working near the new KAFD).

I’m worried that my wife may feel very alone when we are there. Assuming we get into a compound will there be a good support network there for her?
In truth I’m thinking that what’s on offer is not worth it and from reading the various posts whatever is agreed with the company i will probably have a lot of surprises with getting everything sorted from work permit to accommodation. The agent has told me that the company will likely talk money in my final interview and will offer something really low but i should go back with the figures outlined above. Should I be going in for a lot more or I’m i just pricing myself out of the job?

Any advice would be great.

Meow

I can't comment on KSA, but why would you take a job that pays worse than your current one? The income may be tax-free (don't assume it's automatic as soon as you leave the UK by the way - there are rules), but that is one of the few upsides of moving to a medieval country. Why on earth would you choose to live there unless you were making very good money indeed?

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The Dean

"... construction company..." "... nothing concrete at the moment..."

Anyway................ your wife will make friends on a compound very easily, but you MUST ensure that your employer has a place on one for you before coming out here. Accomodation is hard to come by - don't assume you can just turn up, stay in a hotel for a few days, then find somewhere - you won't.

Salary could be higher (although Riyadh salaries are much lower than they used to be, compared to UK equivalents), but it's not bad. Still, as Meow says, why take less than your UK figure? The tax-free aspect may not always be there, and if KSA ever introduce it, employers will NOT compensate you.

Anyway - sort that compound out NOW.

Good luck.

Millhouse

So let's put the facts down on (sort of) paper:

- less money
- longer hours
- 6 days a week
- don't get to see the wife for 6 months (this may or may not be a good thing)
- live in the most draconian country on earth

now let's think this through... no!

Sorry, mate, but I just don't get it. People move here for the money, or in my case to spend more time at home with the family. Doesn't seem like you are ticking those boxes!

typical

Agree with the others, where's the upside? Is your job in the UK at risk?

Also, most airlines won't carry women after 36 weeks of pregnancy - and would she really want to give birth in Saudi Arabia anyway... - so what happens if she decides to stay until afterwards? Will your new employer give you permission (maybe) and time off (hmm) to go and see her and your new child?

coffindodger

Hi your basic wage is a little on the average side its not brilliant by any means for out here in the costa del sand pit.
The housing allowance is rather low any decent compound will be charging you at least 100k plus
Car allowance well you can get a decent second hand one for that very easy.
i do have a couple of web sites for second hand stuff here in the sand pit.
You say about 6 months before your wife / family will be able to join you!! please bear in mind that most airlines will not take her if she is in the later stages.

Then of course we have the ramajam war starting in mid august for 4 weeks then eid, so nothing will happen here over the 7-8 week period.

kittycat1

Trust your gut instinct, I would say a big fat no, your poor wife will be at home with a bran new baby without her network of friends and family, feeling very alone with a screaming baby while your at work for long days, no matter how quickly she makes friends its not the same as having old friends and family for support. AND your not making more money than you currently are- Personally I think you'd be mad!

I'm in Duabi and an feel very isolated let alone when your hormones are all over the place and your tired- sounds like a recipe for disaster to me!

soukie

I hate agents who bang on about the tax free element - cheapskate employers like to play this card too! Tell the agent to stick it especially if your job is OK in UK. Don't forget that agents get commision so it's in their interest to take the job. Don't sell yourself short as others have done - they then find themselves here for nothing. Don't expect an automatic payrise every year if you are in construction - some here have taken 10 and 20 % pay cuts - this hasn't happened to us but if they tried it we would leave. ME is expensive.

Millhouse

Ok, so we have 6 NOs now... case dismissed?

Jeeper

I'd say no as well....the whole question read like a list of reasons NOT to go.

norsk

Definitely a big fat NO, but not because of the salary as you can't really compare basic salary here with net salary in UK since here you won't have some of the regular outgoings you have to pay in the UK.

The reason why you'd be a complete (sorry nothing personal) moron to consider it is your pregnant wife!! Firstly she'll spend the bulk of the pregnancy on her own (she'll hate you for it) and secondly she won't be flying out if she's about to pop so baby will be delivered in the UK (probably without you as your lovely employer who is proposing 10 hours a day 6 days a week might not let you go). And when she finally arrives you'll never be home to see your new baby (so she'll hate you even more).

By the way, when agents say the company has a good HR department that is just a way for them to get out of the dilemma of your demand.

I think I can say with hand on my heart that all HR departments in Saudi are absolutely rubbish. Why? Because HR is one of the departments where most companies employ their Saudi quota....

Dilmun

I totally agree with the other posts. You seem already very reluctant and in that case, I would follow the intuition.
We moved to Saudi because of money. The salary has to be at least double to what you can earn back home (i call it pretium doloris or compensation for suffering ). And if that compensation can't bring a big fat smile on your face at the end of the month, than moving here is definetely not worth it.
You have also to consider, that health care is by far not on European standards. And with a small one coming soon, I would always want to be on the safe side. Your wife wouldn't like to go to a gynecologist here.

So if you still decide to come here, than make sure ! that you get housing in a decent western compound. How many homeflights do you get? And listen to norsk, what he has to say about the quality of HR departments.......

Hello.Kitty

another "no" from me, I'm afraid.

If ever there was a recipe for post-natal depression, it's the one that the agent's trying to convince you would be a good scenario!

The Dean

OK OK....... I think it's clear.

Now can we all agree not to post anything further until we hear from the original poster - I'm worried he'll be so depressed we might never hear from him again.......

Quicksand?? Talk to us... please...

quicksand

Thanks for all the replies

I guess my posting might be slightly on the negative side because my gut feeling was that there is a lot of hassle for no clear reward and now that I’ve slept on the unanimous advice from the forum I think that I will turn the job down on two accounts; my wife’s pregnancy and the cash not being good.

As everyone has pointed out that my wife cannot travel after 36 weeks. We have literally just found out so it is early days yet. She will be about 5.5 months by the time Ramadan happens and if nothing is going to get processed visa wise for those 7/8 weeks then she will be just less than the 36 weeks by the end of the Eid holidays. It would be cutting it rather fine, a yes I would be divorced if I was not here for the birth and even if she is in KSA when it happens Dilmun’s statement about Saudi health/gyne care seems to suggest it will not be good.

My wife’s parents were expats in Kuala Lumpur for many years and she has expressed a desire to move abroad but I think she is lukewarm about Saudi due to the cultural situation (very different from Malaysia I imagine), but is chilled enough not to get too wound up about not driving and having to wear the abaya.

I had kind of hoped that the advice would have been that the visa process will be quicker than expected (2 months etc), hospital care would be as good as or better than the UK (which in a lot of countries is the case especially if someone has a good private healthcare policy) and that there are lots of new mothers about so support etc would not be problem. I have read that you can get 3 month visit visas for wife parents in such situations so between her mum and then my mum (this would be just to make sure she realises that things could be worse) there would be people about in my absence.

As for the job front my job in the UK seems secure enough for the foreseeable given the state of the UK construction market but as my current project is finishing I’m getting posted to another project in which it will be 1. In my opinion a career step backwards, 2. A min three hour daily commute, 3. Bad line manager; 4.my office will be a windowless, unheated/cooled shed in the most deprived inner London suburb (this is the glamorous world of construction). So needless to say the Saudi move (i.e from working in an urban jungle to a literal and cultural desert) would be to work on something more interesting.

One other posting I read suggested that someone getting £50K would be able to bank £40k savings (minus all the housing costs etc) which is not going to happen in the UK, but the money seems poor (with all things considered even excluding the pregnant wife situation) from what you guys and girls are saying. To paraphrase Dilmun the pay should be ‘double bubble or nufink’ (as they will no doubt be saying to me in my new posting in that inner London suburb). If my wife wasn’t pregnant I think I would be considering going in to negotiate more basic and guaranteed compound place as part of the deal. They might say no, but they need someone (or actually loads of people really quickly) to build their massive project.

What I fail to understand is if they are not offering really good money, the stifling bureaucracy (I’m think the 1985 film Brazil only in Keffiyeh’s) preventing anything happening quickly for these big companies (i.e getting peoples family out there ASAP so that they have happy workers) and the reputation of the cultural and political climate being what it is, then how to they get the people to work on these colossal schemes (take 3 or 4 of the UK’s biggest contractors combined total forward order books and this is one project which is planned to be completed in about a third of the time of what would be possible in the west)? Is there a massive influx of people who are willing to work for this kind of money/situation?

Once again thank for the replies this website and all you combined knowledge has been invaluable.