smilingcamel

Not sure about business visa. Sorry. I have only dealt with residence visa based on employment contracts. I left KSA last year and was offered a new contract with another company. The problem arose only then as it became a new requirement by the U.K. KSA embassy to provide an ACRO certificate for the visa processing. I don't think all Gulf countries request this but I am sure it will only be a short time before they follow suit. ACRO state on their website that a police certificate should not be used for employment reasons. Of course in the Gulf, employment is directly related to successful residence visa approval. It seems our own UK government want us to bring up minor issues from the past which before (under basic disclosures didn't appear if spent). The Police Certificate which is not the same as a normal criminal record check lists everything unspent and if you unfortunately stole the "farmers apples as a youth" 99 years ago, it will show as No Living Trace. Records are retained until your 100th birthday. Anything on the Police National computer will be listed if you are requested to provide. You have to declare to embassy officials if this is the case. I can understand protection for vulnerables but this rule seems to exclude professional people that want to move on and want to put a minor mistake behind them. There are over 11m people in the U.K with something written against them on the Police National Computer .Many countries would not be able to provide such data but due to the UK paranoia, we can stop professional people from working abroad or emigrating although we don't seem to have the ability to stop serious criminals coming to the UK.

Pollyana

I don't honestly see how you can blame the UK government when its a Saudi requirement. As you say, ACRO clearly state that their police checks are not for employment purposes. Its the Saudi government you should be ranting against, not the UK, they didn't make the rule and they don't want to stop your employment abroad.

smilingcamel

Totally disagree. For many years the records checks carried out by Scotland for U.K. Citizens were sufficient for this purpose and took into account the rehabilitation periods and spent sentence periods as specified by the rehabilitation of offenders act. This to avoid discrimination against people that want to move on. Then the National Police commission came along in 2006 and set up the ACRO service for issuing such certificates. They are pushing embassy's to use as the main source of records checks meaning everything will be made available if requested. So even for a very minor issue. You will need to disclose. They do of course make a lot of money in the process as there is a fee for each certificate. My main issue is that the UK government introduced the rehabilitation of offenders act 1974 to permit people to move on and not have to bear the pain of having a minor black mark against them for life (unless it's a major crime which will never be deleted). By encouraging foreign embassy's to use Police Certificates instead of Normal disclosures basically means expats or future expats will never have any rehabilitation and will always be considered criminals regardless. I had a minor conviction which involved a 75 pounds fine 36 years ago. I hold the UK government fully responsible that I am forced to bring up garbage (yes, my one and only fault at the time) and end my career in the Middle East.

Busylizzy

It's very unfair to people like yourselves and my wife who have long ago spent their minor convictions and have gone on to have very successful careers.

The acro site states that this shouldn't be used for employment purposes but it does directly impact employment if you can't get a visa to work abroad. People like itself who will now suffer loss of earnings ... it's awful.

To be honest someone who is impacted like yourself will at some point need to sue the organisation for damages and loss of earning so that the law and policy in what shows up can be changed. Like the 2013 case where the guy sued the criminal records bureau because a conviction of sweet stealing from age 12 prevented him from obtaining a job so the judge ruled some convictions can be filtered out of crb and disclosure Scotland checks.

The same tact should be applied to acro.

Hopefully this happens so so that my wife can come on my sponsorship and live in Saudi with me. I'm pretty sure her family residency application will be denied.

mission

I gotta say reading all this is depressing....if you've done the time for the crime (minor offences) going back decades....it should be wiped off your records. I thought any minor crime (ie no jail time, but a monetary fine) were cleared off your records after 6 years?

Busylizzy

Not anymore. They will always stay on your record but if you seek employment in U.K. Then minor convictions come off crb checks after 10 years but for emigration purposes minor convictions which are spent will show up as no live trace. Which means that anyone reading it will know u have a spent criminal conviction.

Sucks.

Other countries don't do this. Seems like just uk policy to do this.

mission

I was wondering what you guys meant when a couple of you mentioned 'no live trace'
I'm feel for you folks, that sucks big time.

Busylizzy

Police certificate comesback as either No Trace or No Live Trace

No Trace means no criminal record info is held about you and No live trace means old criminal record information is held but it is deemed as no longer relevant

Mine came back as no trace which is correct

However, my wife has an old conviction she got when she was in uni and i think it will come back as no live trace, which means she prob wont be allowed to come and live with me in saudi. sucks.. wouldnt have accepted the job if I knew this would happen.

mission

I am not sure how Saudi's visa process works, but over here, if you are working you can sponsor your spouse under your own resident's visa and hence no need for any police checks etc

Busylizzy

Yeah it seems like it's more strict in Saudi. Hopefully the laws change soon so good people can once again move on with their life. My wife does so much charitable and volunteer work on top of her day job but this aspect of her good character will never be known as she is tainted by a silly mistake she made 17 years ago. Sad.