girlinterrupted

I had heard that the residence visa sponsored by the builders (called the investor's visa), in case of joint ownership is only offered to the principal or first named owner. But has anyone heard that in case any of the joint owners already is in possession of a valid uae residence visa in such a case none of the co owners is eligible for a residence visa i.e. if I own a property with my father and if I am sponsored by my company and therefore have a residence visa through employment then my father who is principal owner can't get a residence visa. What kind of logic is that? Does anyone know about this rule? Is this rule property builder specific or do nakheel and emaar have different rules for sponsoring. Anyone?

captainflack

I assume you mean Dubai?

Emaar and Nakheel would pimp their own grandmothers if there was a few quid in it, not only that but they'd tell you she was a 25 year old supermodel stunner and you'd only find out the truth after handing over the cash.

What I am trying to say is do not ask Emaar or Nakheel these questions because these guys will say what they need to say to sell property and won't let the truth get in the way.

And even if there are rules they are often vague, no one really knows what they are, they change every week and even from day to day as the legal system interprets them. So even if you get a visa, be prepared that it could be taken away tomorrow.

It's unlikely the visa would allow working either.

If you want your dad to come over, the best way is setup a company in a freezone like RAK, this is much cheaper than buying a rabbit hutch in the marina (maybe 2-3k GBP) and you have a tax free investment vehicle to trade with. With the RAK free zone visas, you don't need to take offices with them and you can live in Dubai.

girlinterrupted

thank you so much for your post. I really appreciate it. The trouble though is that I have already bought the property. Actually my father wanted each sister to own one flat here. We are two siblings. And in each property we have joint ownership with my father. The problem is that I have a valid uae residence visa due to which my father can not become a resident or so they say, can you believe it? What logic is that? Secondly the reason why we became joint owners was to tackle the inheritance issues that may arise in future. Now we also know that being a joint owner doesn't mean that the other half of the property will be transferred to you if you are the surviving owner but instead will be divided according to sharia law.
Could you tell me if setting up a company in RAK is a one time cost or a recurring one and how can I get more information on this. Also I hope there is no age restriction.

captainflack

I talked to the guys at RAK about setting up a company as I got fed up with waiting for offices at DIC (which we did finally get after nearly 2 years). The office situation in RAK was also a problem so I did not proceed with it, but they were offering 2-person company setup with work visa for both (who must be company owners). I was not aware of any age limit although they might not have brought it up as I'm in my 30s so it did not seem relevant.

They have an office in the business centre part of the Fairmont Hotel near trade centre roundabout. You should be able to wander in and talk to someone. There are yearly license fees but they're reasonable from what I recall, maybe 1-2k. You also need to show some share capital of about 8k GBP but once you have shown this in a bank account they never check your accounts or anything (which is the best thing about doing business in Dubai and the only reason I haven't gone somewhere that's a bit less 'wild west').

It's a bit of hoop jumping you need to get various documents signed and legalized but if the plan is for your father to stay in Dubai for years, then it's worth the effort.

I heard somewhere that they cancel residence visas for anyone over 60 but I'm not sure if this is true or not.

Not sure I fancy being here when I'm over 60 though, but that's a little way off. By then the oil will have run out and we'll all drive electric cars, they'll have no money left to keep dredging the palm and it will have long since disappeared back into the sea taking the fortunes of various russian gangsters with it.

Blue Cat

Girl, this is complicated I agree but I am a bit lost. Are you and your Father on the paperwork for the property??? if so then he should be able to get a visa.

My friend here is co habitating (dodgy!) and has bought a house with her partner. They CANNOT get a visa until they get married, which is understandable cos of the Islamic implications etc.

But you are not cohabitating with a man! he is your Father. My friend has done a load of investigating into this and I think she may well be able to help you. Get your post count up to 5 and then send me a PM- I will give you her phone number. She has been here over 30 years and has some great contacts in immigration

Border Reiver

The rules for visas are indeed complicated but the developers say they will only give you a visa if you have no other way of getting one- and clearly you do. I think this is where you are coming up against a problem.

However, it is not up to the developers to decide who gets a visa, it is up to the immigration department. (Hence, the developers are not in a position to guarantee a visa to anybody, whatever they say.) I would talk to them and ask the question, IF the developer was prepared to sponsor your Dad, would the immigration department be prepared to issue a visa. You could then go back to the developer and try again.

Alternatively, it is possible for you to sponsor your parent(s) subject to certain conditions so you could look into that.

And the developers visas definitely do not allow working, so don't even think it.

Border Reiver

ROFL, so true, so true.

girlinterrupted

I would like to know if someone has processed a visa through a finished property and whether they faced a similar problem. The solution they offer is that I take my name out of the contract and then he becomes eligible for a residence visa.

Eeyore

There probably aren't any people in that position on the board, because we all work here and hence have our own sponsorship, usually from our company or a freezone.

That would seem to make sense. Of course, what they mean is that he becomes eligible to *apply* for a residence visa. He'll almost certainly get it (unless he's HIV+ or has TB or hepatitis), but you're aware that he'll have to reapply every three years like everyone else?

girlinterrupted

Yes I am aware that he will have to re apply every three years and that he will have to make an entry every six months like the rest of us. This particular rule i.e. where any of the joint owners has a valid visa ( I have one because I am working is the reason why my dad can't get it) seems stupid to me that if i have a visa i will not apply for another visa so what does it have to do with the other investor who clearly has no other means of being sponsored. Of course the solution is always there that I take my name out but then I loose my right to the property. Btw not all developers have same rules.

captainflack

Just out of interest are you suggesting he won't actually be living here the bulk of the time? You can stay (i think) 60 days on visit visa you get at airport, and probably do that 2-3 times a year without any worries. Having a residence visa is not enough to avoid tax in the UK, you cannot spend more than 90 days average per year in the UK or you are not non-resident for tax purposes (otherwise let's face it we'd all be back in blighty and just spend a couple of months in the winter here).

I think part of the reason for the caution is probably because only a few % of freehold foreign property in Dubai is owner occupier. Most western expats and major corporate real estate investors have concerns about the legal system and general business ethics here that probably do not inspire confidence (which is why the vast majority of investors are Indians who think Dubai is the world capital of integrity and order, which compared to India it is). So the rules could be to stop these landlords making a few quid extra by effectively selling the visa rights for multiple properties that they don't need themselves.

That said, i think my previous point about the integrity of the real estate industry in general is also a factor. They are the masters of 'bait and switch'. Now you've already bought the place, what's in it for them to get your dad a visa? They've got your wonga already. Why do they want the cost and hassle of sponsoring your dad if they don't have to? If you tried to sue them you'd find out how badly the legal system sucks and that you have no leg to stand on against these guys.

I've run a company here for two years but I'd honestly not invest more than 10% of my net worth here. The longer I stay the more I can funnel out to my European bank accounts and then if the balloon goes up, the revolution comes or the legal system dumps on me from a great height I can cut and run and still make a tidy profit.

jvr20

That surprises me on both counts.

captainflack

Imagine you purchased a house in a nice development and 3 months later bulldozers turned up and started building a new 7 lane motorway 10 metres from your front door.

Now in the UK it would not happen of course. Even if it did, you'd know all about it because your solicitor would have found it when he did a search and the road scheme would probably have gone through at least 5 years of public inquiry and so on. And if your solicitor did not find it in the search, you'd sue the pants of him and the law society would probably strike the guy off for incompetence. You are legally covered by the law society against any losses as a result of a solicitor making a mistake like this. And you know that if it did go to court, you'd have a legal system that will not discriminate against you even if you're a foreigner and the lawyer was the friend/relative of a senior politician or civil servant.

Now consider the likelihood of a similar situation occurring in Dubai and how you might fare if it did.

The case for the prosecution rests M'Lord.

IndieG

lol

that's bull$hit........

jvr20

No that's not what I meant.

I meant that I was surprised by your assertions that:
1. Many/most investors are from India
2. Governance (shocking in Dubai) is better than it is in India.

point 1 because the Indian middle class AFAIK couldn't afford it
and 2 because for all India's problems, the legal system though slow is generally pretty good. Except in rare party-politicising of issues (e.g. Godhra, Nandigram...) there is good separation between the government and the courts, institutions like insurance, the courts, a free press - all work. That's the assertion I was challenging; not that Dubai is like the Wild West.