renew the UK driving licence
#47
This is the response from the DVLA to another forum member who queried the residency requirement - "Changes to British legislation resulting in the implementation of the Second EC Directive on Driving Licences (91/439/EEC) since 1 January 1997, have required that driving licences are granted only to drivers who are resident in this country."
So you could look up that EC Directive for a bit of light reading on the subject!
HTH.
Last edited by christmasoompa; Jan 30th 2018 at 1:48 pm.
#48
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2013
Location: where I currently am
Posts: 454
Re: renew the UK driving licence
waaaaaait a minute... let's all hang fire until after March 19th 2019 and the EC Directive won't apply to us.
As has been mentioned, "residency" varies in its definition and it's likely that as we on here are probably most familiar with the HMRC definition we are assuming that this is how DVLA also define it.
Perhaps someone should write to them and ask what qualifies as residency e.g. bank account, passport, home ownership, domicile etc. We may well find that they are happy with people who have those are in fact resident as far as DVLA are concerned.
As has been mentioned, "residency" varies in its definition and it's likely that as we on here are probably most familiar with the HMRC definition we are assuming that this is how DVLA also define it.
Perhaps someone should write to them and ask what qualifies as residency e.g. bank account, passport, home ownership, domicile etc. We may well find that they are happy with people who have those are in fact resident as far as DVLA are concerned.
#50
Re: renew the UK driving licence
waaaaaait a minute... let's all hang fire until after March 19th 2019 and the EC Directive won't apply to us.
As has been mentioned, "residency" varies in its definition and it's likely that as we on here are probably most familiar with the HMRC definition we are assuming that this is how DVLA also define it.
Perhaps someone should write to them and ask what qualifies as residency e.g. bank account, passport, home ownership, domicile etc. We may well find that they are happy with people who have those are in fact resident as far as DVLA are concerned.
As has been mentioned, "residency" varies in its definition and it's likely that as we on here are probably most familiar with the HMRC definition we are assuming that this is how DVLA also define it.
Perhaps someone should write to them and ask what qualifies as residency e.g. bank account, passport, home ownership, domicile etc. We may well find that they are happy with people who have those are in fact resident as far as DVLA are concerned.
Article 7
Issue, validity and renewal
1. Driving licences shall be issued only to those applicants:
...
(e) who have their normal residence in the territory of the Member State issuing the licence, or can produce evidence that they have been studying there for at least six months.
Issue, validity and renewal
1. Driving licences shall be issued only to those applicants:
...
(e) who have their normal residence in the territory of the Member State issuing the licence, or can produce evidence that they have been studying there for at least six months.
Article 12
Normal residence
For the purpose of this Directive, ‘normal residence’ means the place where a person usually lives, that is for at least 185 days in each calendar year, because of personal and occupational ties, or, in the case of a person with no occupational ties, because of personal ties which show close links between that person and the place where he is living.
However, the normal residence of a person whose occupational ties are in a different place from his personal ties and who consequently lives in turn in different places situated in two or more Member States shall be regarded as being the place of his personal ties, provided that such person returns there regularly. This last condition need not be met where the person is living in a Member State in order to carry out a task of a definite duration. Attendance at a university or school shall not imply transfer of normal residence.
Normal residence
For the purpose of this Directive, ‘normal residence’ means the place where a person usually lives, that is for at least 185 days in each calendar year, because of personal and occupational ties, or, in the case of a person with no occupational ties, because of personal ties which show close links between that person and the place where he is living.
However, the normal residence of a person whose occupational ties are in a different place from his personal ties and who consequently lives in turn in different places situated in two or more Member States shall be regarded as being the place of his personal ties, provided that such person returns there regularly. This last condition need not be met where the person is living in a Member State in order to carry out a task of a definite duration. Attendance at a university or school shall not imply transfer of normal residence.
#51
Forum Regular
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 278
Re: renew the UK driving licence
No, you are fine, provided your paper license remains valid! The advice above only applies to photo card licenses.
Last edited by FriendlyExpat; Jan 31st 2018 at 10:22 pm.
#52
Forum Regular
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 278
Re: renew the UK driving licence
The offence of not updating your photo card every 10 years derives from Section 99 paragraphs 2(a), 3 and 5 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/99).
This says in a roundabout way that unless a photo card license is surrendered, it must be updated every 10 years.
Also note paragraph (4) which provides that it is mandatory to update the photo card licence if the address ceases to be correct.
In both cases, failing to comply with the obligation to surrender or update the card (without reasonable cause) is an offence. There is no exemption for stopping driving or leaving the UK.
I suppose you could argue that stopping driving or leaving the UK is "reasonable cause" for not renewing / surrendering the card, but that seems a risky angle to me. Is that what you were relying on? Or something else?
Last edited by FriendlyExpat; Jan 31st 2018 at 9:09 pm.
#53
Forum Regular
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 278
Re: renew the UK driving licence
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga...52/section/97A
To paraphrase the test:
"[DVLA] may not grant a new licence [following surrender of an outdated photo card] ... unless, [when the new photo card is issued], the [licence holder] is [in the UK and not an illegal immigrant] and is also normally resident in Great Britain (or (ii) [has been lawfully studying in] Great Britain [for the previous 6 months].)"
Last edited by FriendlyExpat; Jan 31st 2018 at 9:39 pm.
#54
Re: renew the UK driving licence
I'm very interested - please explain further.
The offence of not updating your photo card every 10 years derives from Section 99 paragraphs 2(a), 3 and 5 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/99).
This says in a roundabout way that unless a photo card license is surrendered, it must be updated every 10 years.
Also note paragraph (4) which provides that it is mandatory to update the photo card licence if the address ceases to be correct.
In both cases, failing to comply with the obligation to surrender or update the card (without reasonable cause) is an offence. There is no exemption for stopping driving or leaving the UK.
I suppose you could argue that stopping driving or leaving the UK is "reasonable cause" for not renewing / surrendering the card, but that seems a risky angle to me. Is that what you were relying on? Or something else?
The offence of not updating your photo card every 10 years derives from Section 99 paragraphs 2(a), 3 and 5 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/99).
This says in a roundabout way that unless a photo card license is surrendered, it must be updated every 10 years.
Also note paragraph (4) which provides that it is mandatory to update the photo card licence if the address ceases to be correct.
In both cases, failing to comply with the obligation to surrender or update the card (without reasonable cause) is an offence. There is no exemption for stopping driving or leaving the UK.
I suppose you could argue that stopping driving or leaving the UK is "reasonable cause" for not renewing / surrendering the card, but that seems a risky angle to me. Is that what you were relying on? Or something else?
Part III of the RTA 1988 refers to the granting of licences authorising a person to drive a particular class of motor vehicle on the road. If you do not drive then ergo it will not apply to you. You cannot be fined for not holding a licence if you do not drive. Likewise the police cannot pull you over and fine £1,000 for not updating your driving licence address if you do not drive.
That link is to an EU directive which (since it is not a regulation) is not directly effective in the UK. The applicable residency test when renewing your license is set out in section 97A of the 1988 Road Traffic Act (but it's basically the same):
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga...52/section/97A
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga...52/section/97A
#55
Forum Regular
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 278
Re: renew the UK driving licence
You say:
But I was querying:
Separately:
Yes and no. You could obviously still get a fine for not renewing your licence while outside the UK. If this happened (admittedly unlikely) you could safely ignore it while outside the UK because no-one is going to try and extradite you. But if you ever *do* come back to the UK, it's still valid.
But I was querying:
Yes and no. You could obviously still get a fine for not renewing your licence while outside the UK. If this happened (admittedly unlikely) you could safely ignore it while outside the UK because no-one is going to try and extradite you. But if you ever *do* come back to the UK, it's still valid.
Last edited by FriendlyExpat; Jan 31st 2018 at 10:18 pm.
#58
Forum Regular
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 278
Re: renew the UK driving licence
You mean this?
Your interpretation is not correct.
The relevant paragraphs in section 99 refer to the "licence holder". Whether you are actually using the licence is irrelevant. See for example Section 99(4) RTA 1988:
"Where the name or address of the licence holder as specified in a licence ceases to be correct, its holder must forthwith surrender the licence ..."
The relevant paragraphs in section 99 refer to the "licence holder". Whether you are actually using the licence is irrelevant. See for example Section 99(4) RTA 1988:
"Where the name or address of the licence holder as specified in a licence ceases to be correct, its holder must forthwith surrender the licence ..."
#59
Forum Regular
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 278
Re: renew the UK driving licence
In relation to your point about the HMRC and the DVLA link ..... the purpose of this sharing of data is to identify assets ie. expensive cars purchased for cash, or multiple cars owned by the same individual, in a similar fashion to Land Registry data. As far as I know it’s not to seek out overseas residents renewing a driving licence from a UK address ! that’s not from google it’s from professional experience.
And has happened.
Yes to the second. As to the first, I like being anonymous on here and there are not that many lawyers in the region...so...draw your own conclusions based on the quality (or not ) of my comments.
Last edited by FriendlyExpat; Jan 31st 2018 at 10:43 pm.
#60
Re: renew the UK driving licence
Yes and no. You could obviously still get a fine for not renewing your licence while outside the UK. If this happened (admittedly unlikely) you could safely ignore it while outside the UK because no-one is going to try and extradite you. But if you ever *do* come back to the UK, it's still valid.
Your interpretation is not correct.
The relevant paragraphs in section 99 refer to the "licence holder". Whether you are actually using the licence is irrelevant. See for example Section 99(4) RTA 1988:
"Where the name or address of the licence holder as specified in a licence ceases to be correct, its holder must forthwith surrender the licence ..."
The relevant paragraphs in section 99 refer to the "licence holder". Whether you are actually using the licence is irrelevant. See for example Section 99(4) RTA 1988:
"Where the name or address of the licence holder as specified in a licence ceases to be correct, its holder must forthwith surrender the licence ..."