Ramadan greetings

Old Jul 4th 2014, 11:55 am
  #16  
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Default Re: Ramadan greetings

I've just seen this thread and am chuckling that poor little redminnow is so friendless and unloved that he regards the phrase 'thank you' as a compliment.


I'd suggest that Cameron and his ilk do this kind of thing to keep a certain aggressive and prone to 'offence' bunch onside, nothing more.
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Old Jul 4th 2014, 7:15 pm
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Default Re: Ramadan greetings

Originally Posted by Bahtatboy
My mother is nearing the end of her life, and last week we were discussing religion. She terms herself a "seeker", in that she is seeking meaning to life. She was indoctrinated at a Church of England school, but lost her faith when she was about 18 after seeing the irrationality of it. She says she envies people who have faith, and is of the opinion that many intelligent people are religious. I put it to her that religious people should be pitited, not envied: put a Jew, a Christian and a Muslim next to one another, and the only possible conclusions are that a) two of them are going to be sadly disappointed when they die, because the third one was right and therefore their beliefs won't materialise, or b) (the more likely scenario) all three are going to be sadly disappointed.

I suppose there is a third possibility, in that there are mulitiple spiritual universes, but that itsn't consistent with any mainstream religion.

And as to her view that many intelligent people are religious: many otherwise intelligent people are religious.

Attachment 118156

What your mother meant to say is that she envy’s the people who are in possession of the faith that matches rationality and logic, otherwise millions of people around the world do actually have faiths but the problem is that they are scared to subject their faiths to logic.

People can claim what they like to claim but the truth remains always one. The fact that there are too many religions does not mean that all are wrong. You wouldn't lose faith in healing just because a doctor from Harley street as well as a voodoo healer in Africa are both claiming to have a cure to your health problem, would you? You would rather use your logic to figure out the truth from the false! . If a disease is a problem to a humans body, not knowing the creator is a problem to his soul and equally well demands healing
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Old Jul 4th 2014, 8:01 pm
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Default Re: Ramadan greetings

Originally Posted by redShark
What your mother meant to say is that she envy’s the people who are in possession of the faith that matches rationality and logic, otherwise millions of people around the world do actually have faiths but the problem is that they are scared to subject their faiths to logic.

People can claim what they like to claim but the truth remains always one. The fact that there are too many religions does not mean that all are wrong. You wouldn't lose faith in healing just because a doctor from Harley street as well as a voodoo healer in Africa are both claiming to have a cure to your health problem, would you? You would rather use your logic to figure out the truth from the false! . If a disease is a problem to a humans body, not knowing the creator is a problem to his soul and equally well demands healing
I think you are being a bit presumptious about what Bahtatboy's mother may or may not have meant.
And if you think faith healers have any merit other than entertainment value, then you are even more deluded than I gave you credit for.
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Old Jul 5th 2014, 3:36 am
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Default Re: Ramadan greetings

Originally Posted by redShark
I wouldn’t call you guys infidels nor crusaders (though some of your leaders do qualify for this title) because these words contain a meaning of hostility which I don’t think is the case. On the other hand I can’t seem to find an English word that can properly describe you. I want a descriptive word that describes a person who is godless, misguided, short-sighted, illogical, and last but not least, a loser in the life after!!
Having not met me, they are some pretty bold statements.

I know this is not something you are likely to be able to do, but just try to imagine you are wrong. Current estimates are that there are more Christians globally than Muslims. If they are all right and you are wrong, maybe you are going to be the loser?
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Old Jul 5th 2014, 8:28 am
  #20  
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Default Re: Ramadan greetings

Originally Posted by redShark

the faith that matches rationality and logic,
These are utterly incompatible in anyone of sane mind. Rationality and Logic have been shown for 10,000 years to destroy faith completely

otherwise millions of people around the world do actually have faiths but the problem is that they are scared to subject their faiths to logic.
Of course they are scared, see above

People can claim what they like to claim but the truth remains always one.
Exactly, see above

The fact that there are too many religions does not mean that all are wrong.
Given any and even a cursory study of faith, its origins and development throughout history the common origins of nearly all faiths are undeniable, the fact that they have been relabeled to fit different times and ostensibly "markets" shows that there is pretty much one origin myth and one faith. Conceived at a time when man lacked the understanding to explain things in any other way this was a convenient answer that also provided power to those in the know. This is also why religion and faith are dead and dying among any but the most willfully ignorant and ill informed.
All faiths are wrong and demonstrably so when subjected to any kind of serious investigation and intellectual rigor.


You wouldn't lose faith in healing just because a doctor from Harley street as well as a voodoo healer in Africa are both claiming to have a cure to your health problem, would you? You would rather use your logic to figure out the truth from the false! . If a disease is a problem to a humans body, not knowing the creator is a problem to his soul and equally well demands healing
Here a tip for you.

Faith and logic don't mean what you think they do. I'd suggest starting by looking both up.

as a second tip i'd suggest reading the epic of gilgamesh

Last edited by shiva; Jul 5th 2014 at 8:30 am.
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Old Jul 5th 2014, 12:05 pm
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Old Jul 5th 2014, 2:36 pm
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Default Re: Ramadan greetings

I wonder why, with redminnow it is the staightest questions that get the most serpentine responses. With his level of waffle, he should be in Politics. Local government always appears to have a great number of people like him, who when questioned, doesn't reply, but says "That's an interesting question! Now let me ask YOU a question..." i.e. if you don't like a question, change the subject. Jeremy Paxman and Michael Howard springs to mind every time I see one of redminnow's postings. Sometimes amusing in the way they are off-the-wall and irrelevant, and ultimately hollow.
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Old Jul 5th 2014, 6:03 pm
  #23  
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Default Re: Ramadan greetings

Originally Posted by shiva
Here a tip for you.

Faith and logic don't mean what you think they do. I'd suggest starting by looking both up.

as a second tip i'd suggest reading the epic of gilgamesh


Yes faiths do have a common origin. All faiths around the world (except for one) are mutations from the original pure revelations from the creator. So yes, the origin of divine faiths is one.

As for ‘religion and faith are dead and dying’ I wonder Where you got that idea from!! Linen had that idea before you and did his best to prove it by brutal force before the Russian people later on proved him that he was horribly wrong. Religions have always been around since time immoral. Two things were actually born when man first appeared on this earth, religion and wars, they are integral parts of human life.

And what is the point of bringing Gilgamesh into discussion? But since you seem to be a big fan of his let me tell you what he wrote in his epic then. He actually mentioned the big flood event and that was much, much earlier than the Bible did. His epic was the first human documented laws in history.
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Old Jul 5th 2014, 6:08 pm
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Default Re: Ramadan greetings

Originally Posted by OleJanx
I wonder why, with redminnow it is the staightest questions that get the most serpentine responses. With his level of waffle, he should be in Politics. Local government always appears to have a great number of people like him, who when questioned, doesn't reply, but says "That's an interesting question! Now let me ask YOU a question..." i.e. if you don't like a question, change the subject. Jeremy Paxman and Michael Howard springs to mind every time I see one of redminnow's postings. Sometimes amusing in the way they are off-the-wall and irrelevant, and ultimately hollow.
can’t recall a time when you put a question to me that scared off!!
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Old Jul 5th 2014, 6:18 pm
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Default Re: Ramadan greetings

Originally Posted by redShark
Yes faiths do have a common origin. All faiths around the world (except for one) are mutations from the original pure revelations from the creator. So yes, the origin of divine faiths is one.

As for ‘religion and faith are dead and dying’ I wonder Where you got that idea from!! Linen had that idea before you and did his best to prove it by brutal force before the Russian people later on proved him that he was horribly wrong. Religions have always been around since time immoral. Two things were actually born when man first appeared on this earth, religion and wars, they are integral parts of human life.

And what is the point of bringing Gilgamesh into discussion? But since you seem to be a big fan of his let me tell you what he wrote in his epic then. He actually mentioned the big flood event and that was much, much earlier than the Bible did. His epic was the first human documented laws in history.

I think Christians generally believe that Genesis, although compiled by Moses, is based on writings by various earlier writers including Adam. So parts of Genesis pre-date the flood by a considerable margin. For instance, Genesis 5:1 mentions the 'Book of Adam'. So it is incorrect that the book of Gilgamesh pre dates the bible, although it could well have been based on the same ancient texts that comprise parts of Genesis.
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Old Jul 5th 2014, 6:57 pm
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Default Re: Ramadan greetings

Originally Posted by redShark
Two things were actually born when man first appeared on this earth, religion and wars, they are integral parts of human life.
And in any moral, intelligent and rational society, both would be banned. They're not integral parts of human life, they're the inevitable results of egomaniacs, the deluded and the easily-led.
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Old Jul 5th 2014, 9:05 pm
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Default Re: Ramadan greetings

Originally Posted by Fossildog
I think Christians generally believe that Genesis, although compiled by Moses, is based on writings by various earlier writers including Adam. So parts of Genesis pre-date the flood by a considerable margin. For instance, Genesis 5:1 mentions the 'Book of Adam'. So it is incorrect that the book of Gilgamesh pre dates the bible, although it could well have been based on the same ancient texts that comprise parts of Genesis.
I totally agree with you, Gilgamesh did not invent that story himself, he must have heard it from people before him. Given that human writing was not yet invented before his time and that that event happened many thousands of years before him, the story therefore couldn’t have been passed down by way of narrations. I could only think of revelations to the prophets as the means that kept that incident fresh in peoples memory.
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Old Jul 5th 2014, 9:07 pm
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Default Re: Ramadan greetings

Originally Posted by Bahtatboy
And in any moral, intelligent and rational society, both would be banned. They're not integral parts of human life, they're the inevitable results of egomaniacs, the deluded and the easily-led.
This discussion reminds me of a long discussion I once had with a learned person who was a perfectionist over the top. The topic was will there be any time in the future when wars around the globe will seize to exist, even for a short lull of time. He believed that such a thing is possible to have, but my view was it’s impossible for such a thing to happen because it simply not how Mother nature made the world (by the will of the creator). Had there been no natural disasters, calamities, and indeed wars, human race would have continued to exist in a form akin to that of the Amazonian tribes. Disasters on big scales produce mass migration of human population over different lands which entails intermixing and cross breeding of the human races to produce stronger, more intelligent breeds of human beings capable of improving the quality of their lives. And as a devote I can further add that intelligence was indeed one of the intended end result of those events because more intelligence means more easy to believe in God, something your mother would second.
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Old Jul 6th 2014, 2:45 am
  #29  
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Default Re: Ramadan greetings

Originally Posted by redShark
..... because more intelligence means more easy to believe in God....
Rubbish. The more we learn, the more questions we ask. People like yourself who have been brainwashed are unable to think with an open mind.

I pity you.
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Old Jul 6th 2014, 3:21 am
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Default Re: Ramadan greetings

Originally Posted by redShark
Had there been no natural disasters, calamities, and indeed wars, human race would have continued to exist in a form akin to that of the Amazonian tribes. Disasters on big scales produce mass migration of human population over different lands which entails intermixing and cross breeding of the human races to produce stronger, more intelligent breeds of human beings capable of improving the quality of their lives.
You really are clueless about evolution. It is not some goal driven process to bigger, better, stronger. It is adapting to fit a niche and stay alive for longer than other species without your adaptation(s).
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