CasaNova

I just want to know from you, as a British do you think that all these people from Chine/Hong Kong should be given British Passporys?


Do they have the same right to live their way of life in Britain as you live your way of life in britain as a British?


And what if it doesn;t works?

CasaNova

I remeber the Islamic scholar "Al Tantawi" of egypt, declared that Muslims have no right to protest the French headscarf ban law. Its not a muslim country.


But on the other quarter, the North-Africa dismissed the calls of Tantawi by saying that Tantawi has no right of saying that! Its a French internal matter and the French must solve it out!



Now this makes me confuse

Jammy_Dodgers

I agree.
However, there are many different interpretations of Islam, why can it not be left to the individual on how they wish to interpret the texts, rather than be forced to follow someones interpretation ??

I was told that the koran only says that women should cover their hair when praying.??

CasaNova

You must understand that Religion and Culture is two different entity! many people take the culture of Arabia and brand the Religion to it. Which is tottally wrong

Not just Holy Qu'ran but also its said in the Bible that women should dress in modesty till the end of times. even if we see the pictures of Holy Mary and she is dressed in modesty, same as you see a Muslim.

if you see a Muslim women from Europe and Africa, you will see that they are not as same as what you see here in Arabia.


Holy Qu'ran has one interpretation, but the path chosen by the Individual is based on the knowledge he posses.


The hair must be covered while praying to avoid distraction but to cover once face depends on the Individual.


It's like I ask you for your heart but you wanna give me your life. So basically these women or people think they will be holier by covering up than what is asked for.

Sid2

Point #1. Large-scale immigration to European countries stopped in the late 60's after the imposition of restrictive laws. The young people protesting in the streets are *not* "immigrants", they are citizens! Certainly, they are the sons and daughters of migrants, but they themselves were born in Europe and the citizenship they hold is of Britain or France. Hence, if you're asking them to "go home" then "home" for them is not Pakistan or Morrocco ... it is Bradford or one of the Paris "banlieues".

Point #2. The Western European countries were not "secular states" from the day when the first Caucasian decided to migrate Westwards. These countries were originally theocracies, just like Iran or Saudi Arabia. The separation of Church and State in Europe only came about starting in the 18th century after efforts by secular thinkers to change the system.

Now ... why is it that the secular thinkers had a right to demand a change in the system of their country, but a person with a religious outlook must accept secularism, or "leave the country"?

I thought the whole point of "liberal democracy" is that *any* citizen, irrespective of his or her ethnic origin, has the right to disagree with the way things are run, and to work towards changing the system.

It is not just certain Muslims who disagree with secularism ... in the US, there is a very strong Christian Fundamentalist lobby who want to convert the country to a Christian theocracy. Some of these Christians pursue the path through peaceful & democratic means. Others take the path of violence, such as the Fundamentalists who bombed abortion clinics.

So ... why is it that when a European Muslim with brown skin demands change, he is immediately labelled a "traitor" and asked to "go home" but when a Caucasian Christian bombs a clinic, there are no accusations of treachery or demands for "exile" (because "exile" is what it would be if a British or French Muslim is removed from the country)?!

barsha barbie

Both my grandfathers were posted to Bahrain in the 60's (RAF, Merchant Marines), my parents grew up in Bahrain, I was born in Bahrain and obviously given a british passport - certainly couldn't get a Bahraini passport! I've lived in Dubai for 25 years, if someone tells me to 'go home' I have to assume they mean England!!! Although I've never lived there! I agree with CN that the UAE has it residency/citizen laws correct. You don't see any riots here!

NooNoo

Our family have been in the ME for 46 years (maybe more by now) and my father (a muslim) has always told us that a 'TRUE' muslim would actually prefer you to eat and drink in front of him as it reminds him of his stregth and will power and the reason he is fasting. Times have changed, no longer are the fasting muslims walking through deserts with camels but people are operating heavy machinery, driving cars and labouring - the fasting applies to all religions in UAE no matter what. Quite dangerous as we have seen in the huge increase of accidents/incidents during Ramadan. I am happy to abide by the laws of the UAE - I have all my life, i know I going to cop a barrage for what I have just said but it has bothered me more this year than any other - simply because of the accidents and mayhem it seemed to have caused - one that is not seen in other muslim countries during the holy month of Ramadan....

MJC

Except at closing time at DD, Longs, Fibbers, the list is endless!!

NooNoo

PMSL - you know her too well!!!

Jammy_Dodgers

Yet to try DD yet, but i will do soon !!

Sid2

Ah, yes! Bahrain .....

Here's what Amnesty had to say about the place a few years back:

http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/ENGMDE110181996

I don't know about you, but this looks like a "riot" to me.

'Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars.' - Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr

barsha barbie

Morning Sid - unfortunately, you've taken parts of my post to make it sound like it was referring to bahrain. 'you don't see many riots here' was actually a throw away comment, i've read the link you attached (not all, but i will) not much referrence to expats though - my main gripe was the fact that having spent my whole life here (3rd generation british expat) i'm forced to see england as 'home'. from memory your post read 'when you say 'go home' to a pakistani in france you're talking about paris....' correct me if i'm wrong.

all i really wanted was to agree with CN that they have the resident laws here right!

Norm_uk

Unlike the UAE, we tried to understand other cultures and religions and believed we could live quite happily alongside other peoples to the point of making them fellow citizens.

The UAE succeeds in racial and religious harmony because it does not recognise all cultures as equal to the native culture in their homeland. Expats here have boundries and those who cross them are punished and/or ejected. These are simple rules that have allowed Emiratis to be the rulers of their own country even when they form the minority of the population.

Taking the UK as an example, we have failed because we are at the point where anything too 'traditional' (even petty stuff like dressing 'properly' for certain occassions, waving the odd flag or admitting to being even slightly patriotic - especially for the English) is considered the domain of the racist idiot. Today we are desperate not to be seen as racist (which is of course a good thing) but we do it at the expense of not loving our own people and culture before others in our own land.

There is simply no way anyone can integrate into a society that hates itself...

My radical solution would be to strip citizenship of all people who do not culturally identify with any of the native populations of the UK (English, Irish, Scottish, Welsh etc) and instead give life residences for people who wish to stay and work or marry UK citizens. In order to get citizenship I would ask people to renounce their original culture, take up a name of British origin and swear to put British culture before any other...

In short I'd do exactly what the Japanese do.

NooNoo

WOW!!!! :scared: lost for words (in a good way!)

barsha barbie

wow indeed - very well written!