weasel decentral

Yeah, I guess if you are against vaccines, it's possible to misrepresent numbers to suit your own opinion.

weasel decentral

It's a mixture of fear, ignorance and a few other factors - I wouldn't describe it all as wilful non compliance. But as the country opened up a spike was expected due to the increased contacts in any case, that spike now seems to be receding based on the last couple of days numbers.

scrubbedexpat141

Apparently, with a booster, the % of whatever it is, goes up to high 90's.

I, personally, see that 98/99% chance of not being hospitalised or dying as a excellent odds in my favour. Especially when compared to the who-the-****-knows percent chance I have at the moment, having never had it and no test existing to see how my body would cope with it.

Still, everyone has every right to choose. Every private business has every right to choose who they serve or allow to travel or host. Being awkward and experience awkward treatment and being butthurt about it to me, is fantastically funny.

UKMS

exactly how many people have been jailed for refusing the vaccine ? And what other ‘rights’ are they being denied ?

scrubbedexpat141

Those who choose not to be vaccinated have been denied the right to a fully functioning brain. It's disgusting really, the poor things.

DXBtoDOH

I daresay the difference between you and me is that I really don't care what other people do or don't do as a result of their own decisions. Forcing, culturally or politically, people to take vaccines against their free-will is a dubious thing to do, methinks. People are attached to their own bodies and not everyone has your opinions. They do have the argument that for the vast, vast majority, COVID vaccines really aren't necessary. You might get sick, but the odds are still incredibly low that you'd need hospitalization if you are outside certain demographics. I did get vaccinated for various reasons, namely why not, and to reassure my parents, but I don't judge others. It's possible if I was fat and a heavy smoker, I might be more fearful of what other people don't do, but then the problem becomes just as much the fat smoker's problem. Ultimately, I've decided the risk of unvaccinated people isn't big enough of a threat to me based on the data I see. If COVID was much more lethal to healthier people, I'd naturally feel differently, which does illustrate how the fine line between social good and individual freedom is always a flexible and ever changing one, which is also another reason I don't judge or mock people for feeling differently from the official consensus.

It is all a big experiment. We've never had this kind of mass vaccination programmes in modern history that was applied across all demographics regardless of the sharply differing impacts. It will be interesting to see what happens as both COVID and people's outlooks evolve across time. New variants will always keep popping up. The Swedes seem to be having the last laugh after all, which doesn't surprise me given they took the most pragmatic, realistic, and balanced approach rather than enforcing a one size fits all policy on everyone.

UKMS

Interested to know on what you base your theory that for the vast vast majority vaccine is unnecessary ? …. If it was as simple as that why do so many scientists the WHO etc not share your view ?

Regarding forcing vaccines I think that’s been blown out of proportion from what is happening in a couple of countries. I largely agree that vaccines shouldn’t be forced but don’t have any sympathy with anyone complaining about being denied a service here and there.

shiraz1

Nobody is being forced to get vaccinated though are they, as the death rates among the unvaccinated show.

csdf

Unvaccinated people are somewhere between 3 and 15 times more likely to end up in hospital than the vaccinated (depending on age). Putting heavy pressure on people to vaccinate seems like a sensible thing to do then, to stop your hospitals being full of unvaccinated sick people taking up bed space from others who had no choice about being sick (cancer sufferers etc). I was chatting to a doctor friend the other day - he pointed out that you've now developing a 2-year gap in new doctors, all of whom have been forced to spend most of their time on covid wards (now mostly caring for unvaccinated people) rather than training in their specialisms. But old doctors are still continuing to retire, meaning that the UK is heading for a bleak place with large gaps in the more junior doctor end.

Norm_uk

I am not against vaccines at all. I have had many vaccines in my life and support properly tested vaccines with decades of date of effectiveness and clear side-effect data.

It does seem that asking questions about a specific set of vaccines these days is automatically 'anti-vax'. We are apparently to trust blindly every corporation and government now and throw informed consent and individual sovereignty out the window. Many of us are now quite happy to implement vaccine apartheid across populations...I'm still waiting to know why my vaccine needs other people to take theirs in order to work well enough for me to travel and move around as before.

N.

Norm_uk

I was replying to the statement that " The hospitals are reporting 50 to 60% of patients presenting with Covid are unvaccinated, so the vaccinated are hugely under represented."

How does that equate to 90% protection when between 40% and 50% of hospitalised people are vaccinated?

Norm_uk

Politicians get to hold the country to ransom. They are the ones making policies not a small number of people who for various reasons haven't had their jab....

csdf

It's fairly simple: the vaccinated people who are in hospital are only 10% of the total number of cases amongst vaccinated people. Hence 90% protection against hospitalisation.

UKMS

As mentioned before …..you are focusing only on YOU to suit your agenda rather than the wider picture

Maxima

A lot of seemingly innocent statements will get you labelled as anti vax these days

1) Pointing out that Moderna causes heart issues in many younger males
2) Mentioning the blood clot problems with AZ
3) Wondering why Pfizer's submission to the FDA will take till 2076 to be fully disclosed

Any of these points are enough for some people to label you, permanently, as anti-vax