OK So we did a runner......
Aug 22nd 2009, 3:40 am
#166
Just Joined
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 13
Re: OK So we did a runner......
Please do not be so sure. You may visit USA section of this forum and read about difficulties of people to get immigration visas or naturalization because of simple traffic fines (speeding etc...). It would be very interesting to overcome such difficulties while having pending prison sentence in foreign country.
You should also bear in mind that visa waiver system to many countries is possible only if you do not have any conviction in the past, not to mention the pending case... People are being detained on the airports only because unusual sounding name. You think you will have a pleasant trip without knowing how the information is shared among authorities. Yes, you can claim you are right. But you end up at the secondary inspection and it can take days to clear your situation..
You should also bear in mind that visa waiver system to many countries is possible only if you do not have any conviction in the past, not to mention the pending case... People are being detained on the airports only because unusual sounding name. You think you will have a pleasant trip without knowing how the information is shared among authorities. Yes, you can claim you are right. But you end up at the secondary inspection and it can take days to clear your situation..
Now, if you want me to sod off, I will. I'll leave you all to speculate on what the next two years look like after you run. But, if you want actual information about that 24 months after a runner, I'm the person to talk to. I did it, I know.
I'm not posting this to inflame public opinion or to have this become a referendum on my fitness as a parent. I'm trying to impart experience and knowledge to you. If you want to go back to speculation and flame wars, godspeed. I've got wine to drink and the kids are crying.
Aug 22nd 2009, 4:19 am
#167
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 13
Re: OK So we did a runner......
Please, do not be so self confident and avoid flying to India. Very often the airplanes have emergency landing in one of the GCC. Some false alarm or some crazy or sick passanger on board and you will be welcome to local prison as soon as they check your data. They will not forget you even 20 AED not to mention higher amounts.
Another setback is that you will be confined to your home country (I assume it is USA). If you like to immigrate or take a job in any other country they will ask you for the police report of the countries where you lived earlier.
If you are not an US citizen, but merely a permanent resident, you will have a trouble to be naturalized. The only option would be to 'forget' your offence in the UAE, but it can reemerge anytime. Besides that, you can expect that UAE and USA will exchange all information relevant to security of travel. And you will be not so confident each time you travel back to US and face the immigration officer.
Can you immagine you get a nice job in a nice company... And suddenly there is a business trip to one of the GCC countries. What are you going to tell your new boss???
So, this issue is not at all naive as your US lawyer thinks.
Another setback is that you will be confined to your home country (I assume it is USA). If you like to immigrate or take a job in any other country they will ask you for the police report of the countries where you lived earlier.
If you are not an US citizen, but merely a permanent resident, you will have a trouble to be naturalized. The only option would be to 'forget' your offence in the UAE, but it can reemerge anytime. Besides that, you can expect that UAE and USA will exchange all information relevant to security of travel. And you will be not so confident each time you travel back to US and face the immigration officer.
Can you immagine you get a nice job in a nice company... And suddenly there is a business trip to one of the GCC countries. What are you going to tell your new boss???
So, this issue is not at all naive as your US lawyer thinks.
I live on the west coast so we fly over Hong Kong, not Dubai, when we go to Karala. I try to avoid flying anywhere near the UAE lest my plane have mechanical difficulties, but in my nearly 40 years of flying I've never, ever had a plane be diverted anywhere for any reason. I've flown literally thousands of times and it has NEVER happened. And, if it does, I'll deal with it then. I'm not going to hide. Going to prison when my kids are old enough to fend for themselves and going to prison when they are toddlers are worlds apart.
I am not confined to the USA, I travel for work and it has never been an issue for me.
I wrote a book about the whole affair, so my "boss" knows I can't ever go back to the UAE. I work, fortunately, in a field that rewards outrageous stories and absolutely insane adventures.
I can expect the USA and the UAE to exchange all kinds of information, but the one thing I KNOW to be true is that I will never go to prison for a debt I incur anywhere in the world. I'm a US citizen. I don't need to worry about debtors prisons. And, I don't.
I travel to the UK at least twice a year to see my family there. Never had a passport officer so much as blink at me. If they run my name they will find a well-respected journalist. Contrary to what people would have you believe, there is no international database of people who owe money to somebody and didn't pay it off. That database doesn't exist. Interpol has a really hard time catching actual criminals.
I can "immigrate" to any country I want except the UAE. And, I don't really want to go back to the UAE so it works out for everybody.
So, this issue is not at all naive as your US lawyer thinks.
Finally, to people who are in the UAE and are considering running:
So far, my life has worked out fine. The UAE bank tried to collect the first year and I told them to sod off. They know exactly where I live, where I work and what I do. They know where my family lives and works. They know my spouse's name, my kids' names and my current bank's name. They know because I told them. It hasn't been a problem so far. I travel when and where I want, save the UAE, and don't worry about being stopped.
If you are suck in the UAE, in debt and facing prison my advice to you is to get out now, while you still can. In my particular case, the midnight flight out of DXB provided a great ending to a story. Two years down the road, all's well.
Aug 22nd 2009, 7:10 am
#169
Forum Regular
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 182
Re: OK So we did a runner......
May be, as an US citizen living on West Coast who probably does not intend to take a long term position abroad you may never ever face the trouble. But, this does not apply to everybody. Someone else may want one day to become naturalized citizen or permanent resident in some other country (not necessarily USA) and would need police report from the counties where he lived earlier.
I already mentioned that it is better to escape Dubai than to sit in prison. And there is no need that you raise this argument in your favour. The most important part is to check all future possible risks and decide to pay the UAE debts later or not. So you need to foresee if 'monkeys WOULD fly out of your butt one day' or not. You need to foresee whether UAE would put you on trial and what the outcome of the court decision would be. You need to foresee whether UAE would ask for international help countries like Thailand, Malaysia, and who knows which else...
However, with the US passport you may consider you safe. But, you can have some unrelated accident in Malaysia where you would be routinely checked... And, I do not know how they may react if unpaid debt in that country is also considered as a crime.
The life is full of surprises and you may count on it that UAE will never forgive you the money you owe.... So, everybody needs to make its own risk assessment after he/she escapes Dubai and decide to pay UAE debts or not. This is the most important issue and it is wrong to claim from your position that everybody else has nothing to lose.
Last edited by kazic; Aug 22nd 2009 at 7:34 am.
Aug 22nd 2009, 7:48 am
#170
Just Joined
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 13
Re: OK So we did a runner......
Not bad indeed... You are paying your mortgage because you would lose your home. You are paying your US debts because you will lose your credit score. But you are not paying your UAE debts because you believe you have nothing to lose.
May be, as an US citizen living on West Coast who probably does not intend to take a long term position abroad you may never ever face the trouble. But, this does not apply to everybody.
I already mentioned that it is better to escape Dubai than to sit in prison. And there is no need that you raise this argument in your favour. The most important part is to check all future possible risks and decide to pay the UAE debts later or not. So you need to foresee if 'monkeys WOULD fly out of your butt one day' or not. You need to foresee whether UAE would put you on trial and what the outcome of the court decision would be. You need to foresee whether UAE would ask for international help countries like Thailand, Malaysia, and who knows which else...
However, with the US passport you may consider you safe. But, you can have some unrelated accident in Malaysia where you would be routinely checked... And, I do not know how they may react if unpaid debt in that country is also considered as a crime.
The life is full of surprises and you may count on it that UAE will never forgive you the money you owe.... So, everybody needs to make its own risk assessment after he/she escapes Dubai and decide to pay UAE debts or not. This is the most important issue and it is wrong to claim from your position that everybody else has nothing to lose. May be, someone will want one day to become naturalized citizen or permanent resident in some other country and would need police report from the counties he lived earlier.
May be, as an US citizen living on West Coast who probably does not intend to take a long term position abroad you may never ever face the trouble. But, this does not apply to everybody.
I already mentioned that it is better to escape Dubai than to sit in prison. And there is no need that you raise this argument in your favour. The most important part is to check all future possible risks and decide to pay the UAE debts later or not. So you need to foresee if 'monkeys WOULD fly out of your butt one day' or not. You need to foresee whether UAE would put you on trial and what the outcome of the court decision would be. You need to foresee whether UAE would ask for international help countries like Thailand, Malaysia, and who knows which else...
However, with the US passport you may consider you safe. But, you can have some unrelated accident in Malaysia where you would be routinely checked... And, I do not know how they may react if unpaid debt in that country is also considered as a crime.
The life is full of surprises and you may count on it that UAE will never forgive you the money you owe.... So, everybody needs to make its own risk assessment after he/she escapes Dubai and decide to pay UAE debts or not. This is the most important issue and it is wrong to claim from your position that everybody else has nothing to lose. May be, someone will want one day to become naturalized citizen or permanent resident in some other country and would need police report from the counties he lived earlier.
People like kazic made me crazy when I was trying to get actual information about possible repercussions. They mix outright lies with possible half-truths and then try to convince you it might happen. Well, yes, it might happen. The sun might stop shining. The earth might get hit with a huge meteor. Is it likely? No.
Don't listen to people like this. I HAVE TRAVELED TO THAILAND. I HAVE worked abroad since I left the UAE. I DID get a new job. I DID get to keep my home in the States. I haven't had any real problems since I did a runner. Kazic is a moron who can't spell "maybe." Don't take advice from people like this. They are trained their whole lives to be afraid. If you've lived in Dubai you know these people well. They follow all of the rules without thinking about them because they are told to. They have no concept of critical thinking. These are the people who drive you nuts when you are trying to substitute a side item of food at a restaurant.
The reason they put you in jail in Dubai for not paying your debts is because they can't do anything to you if you leave. Why else would they spend all that money for a debtor?
I repeat: there is no international database of debtors. It does not exist. Even if "they" "found" me in Thailand, I could bribe my way out of trouble for less than Dhs150k— a lot less. As far as practical advice goes: always carry some bribe money in your shoe when you travel. It's gotten me out of scrapes in Mexico, Moroco, Indonesia and India.
In order for you to realistically evaluate your options I am telling you what actually happened to me when I did a runner. I am tolerating all manner of insult and idiotic thinking to bring you actual information. Kazic wants you to think about possible future risks. I am telling you what those risks are.
I remember the bubble of Dubai. Because of how crazy Dubai is, you tend to think the rest of the world is also that crazy. It's only when you get at a safe remove that you can see clearly. You'll read a message from a guy named Kazic the Misspeller and start to think he might have a point. He doesn't. He's a moron.
Aug 22nd 2009, 8:02 am
#171
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,869
Re: OK So we did a runner......
In order for you to realistically evaluate your options I am telling you what actually happened to me when I did a runner. I am tolerating all manner of insult and idiotic thinking to bring you actual information. Kazic wants you to think about possible future risks. I am telling you what those risks are.
Aug 22nd 2009, 8:20 am
#173
Forum Regular
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 182
Re: OK So we did a runner......
In my case I can not simply afford to have any possible trouble in any part of the world. Contrary to your case, my boss would not be amused to hear that I have whatever conviction anywhere and that I, for example, can not travel to GCC. I can not afford to try any bribing because I do not like to risk even bigger troubles of encountering someone who hates bribing. I have 5 small children and I can not simply risk causing any harm to them by my wrong decision making. I like to go to bed without bearing in mind that someone wants to do me a harm because I owe him money or because anything else.. I do not like to be in any database of convicted people.
From my posting you can conlude that I want to pay all my debts, no matter to whom I owe money. If I am in trouble today I will do my best to overcome these troubles and pay my debts later.
At the same time I do not like people (and clients) who do not pay their debts and especially do not like people who do their best to convince other how great it is not to pay their debts.
I tried to illustrate several arguments why it is good to pay your UAE debts. There will be for sure people who prefere my approach than yours.
Last edited by kazic; Aug 22nd 2009 at 8:31 am.
Aug 22nd 2009, 8:32 am
#174
Forum Regular
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 197
Re: OK So we did a runner......
a good write up - just a few comments as below as it appears that being an american and taking the moral viewpoint you have gives you the confidence to take the course of action taken....
a viewpoint which is undoubtedly a trait within the
american society - cue the global financial crisis meltdown the world is still experiencing....
another viewpoint synonymous with the american psyche to debt...
an angle which again is synonmous with the american psyche
some would say that both go hand in hand 
which supports the argument on how the operation of the american banks has been the catalyst for the financial global meltdown of recent times...
american society - cue the global financial crisis meltdown the world is still experiencing....
which supports the argument on how the operation of the american banks has been the catalyst for the financial global meltdown of recent times...
Last edited by Foxes; Aug 22nd 2009 at 8:33 am. Reason: sp.
Aug 22nd 2009, 8:47 am
#175
Just Joined
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 13
Re: OK So we did a runner......
a good write up - just a few comments as below as it appears that being an american and taking the moral viewpoint you have gives you the confidence to take the course of action taken....
a viewpoint which is undoubtedly a trait within the
american society - cue the global financial crisis meltdown the world is still experiencing....
another viewpoint synonymous with the american psyche to debt...
an angle which again is synonmous with the american psyche
some would say that both go hand in hand
which supports the argument on how the operation of the american banks has been the catalyst for the financial global meltdown of recent times...
a viewpoint which is undoubtedly a trait within the
american society - cue the global financial crisis meltdown the world is still experiencing....
another viewpoint synonymous with the american psyche to debt...
an angle which again is synonmous with the american psyche
some would say that both go hand in hand
which supports the argument on how the operation of the american banks has been the catalyst for the financial global meltdown of recent times...
I'm not going to keep posting my experiences if this devolves into a series of ad hominem attacks on me for being a Yank. I would like to point out that I hold a US and UK passport by virtue of having a parent of English birth and one of American, was born in the UK and have lived my life in many, many countries.
As for the global financial meltdown... lots of people were complicit in that, from all backgrounds and nationalities. In any case I don't see how's it's material to the discussion at hand.
I'll let you all tear me down now. For those of you who want actual advice about what to expect when you flee the UAE just email me at [email protected].
Soldier on moral warriors...
Aug 22nd 2009, 9:06 am
#176
Just Joined
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 13
Re: OK So we did a runner......
Well, you should avoid being aggressive. First of all, my native language is Spanish and this explains my poor english. But, I have highest degrees from two top Universities and, due to my manager job, have lived in 10 countries. I have a personal experience with the difficulties of sorting out immigration paperwork in all these countries and I know what I am taking about. You argument that I am moron is very difficult to maintain.
In my case I can not simply afford to have any possible trouble in any part of the world. Contrary to your case, my boss would not be amused to hear that I have whatever conviction anywhere and that I, for example, can not travel to GCC. I can not afford to try any bribing because I do not like to risk even bigger troubles of encountering someone who hates bribing. I have 5 small children and I can not simply risk causing any harm to them by my wrong decision making. I like to go to bed without bearing in mind that someone wants to do me a harm because I owe him money or because anything else.. I do not like to be in any database of convicted people.
From my posting you can conlude that I want to pay all my debts, no matter to whom I owe money. If I am in trouble today I will do my best to overcome these troubles and pay my debts later.
At the same time I do not like people (and clients) who do not pay their debts and especially do not like people who do their best to convince other how great it is not to pay their debts.
I tried to illustrate several arguments why it is good to pay your UAE debts. There will be for sure people who prefere my approach than yours.
In my case I can not simply afford to have any possible trouble in any part of the world. Contrary to your case, my boss would not be amused to hear that I have whatever conviction anywhere and that I, for example, can not travel to GCC. I can not afford to try any bribing because I do not like to risk even bigger troubles of encountering someone who hates bribing. I have 5 small children and I can not simply risk causing any harm to them by my wrong decision making. I like to go to bed without bearing in mind that someone wants to do me a harm because I owe him money or because anything else.. I do not like to be in any database of convicted people.
From my posting you can conlude that I want to pay all my debts, no matter to whom I owe money. If I am in trouble today I will do my best to overcome these troubles and pay my debts later.
At the same time I do not like people (and clients) who do not pay their debts and especially do not like people who do their best to convince other how great it is not to pay their debts.
I tried to illustrate several arguments why it is good to pay your UAE debts. There will be for sure people who prefere my approach than yours.
There is no database of international debtors. That is a fact.
I have run out on debt in the UAE. Fact.
I have suffered no ill effects yet. Fact.
I have traveled to many other countries since I left. Fact.
I have had my passport check by many officials. Fact.
Being a rapist and not paying your debts are legal equivalents in the UAE. Fact.
Being raped in the UAE might result in a prison sentence for the victim. Fact.
Now subjective reasoning and moral rationalization:
Running out on a debt is immoral. Not a fact.
Doing things your way is the best way. Not a fact.
Doing thing your way is the only moral way to do things. Not a fact.
Your moral framework is the only one which will suffice. Not a fact.
Aug 22nd 2009, 9:36 am
#177
Forum Regular
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 182
Re: OK So we did a runner......
I was not talking about database of debtors. I was talking about database of court convictions and database of people sought by UAE. You said that rapist are being treated the same way as debtors. So, you must be completely sure that Malaysia does not get any agreement with UAE about such database. Not now, but 10 or 20 years in the future... Otherwise the rapists would have easy life...
If Malaysia request info from the countries you lived before, you can face serious sentence. There are cases where bribing simply does not help. I mentioned Malaysia but it can be any other country. It is a rule that the conviction for the new problem will depend upon your history of previous convictions. The people with clean records have advantage when facing a court for the first time. For you, in Malayisa (or any other country) it would be your 2nd court case.
Example 2: You get a great job in Russia (or in India, or in China). You need to settle down for 1-5 year and need UAE police report in order to get your long-term visa. How are you going to sort this out? You do not need this job now, but let say you get it in 10 years. If not Russia, than some other country.... Most of them want the police reports before they issue you a long term visa (immigrant or non-immigrant).
Example 3: You have South African passport and want to apply for American greencard. How are you going to convince Americans that your court conviction is just a joke? Do you really believe you will get a greencard?
Example 4: You have an UK passport and want to travel to USA. The visa waiver program is only available to people without court convictions. So, you need to apply to visa explaining how that issue is not a big deal. Of course you may missuse American rules and hope there will be no information telling anything against you... Even Indian movie stars get detained at US airport because of some minor issue related to their family name.
Example 5: You travel to one of the GCC? Would you dare to take a trip to Qatar or Saudi Arabia? Now? What about in 10 years?
Example 6: You usually need job references when applying for the future positions. How are you going to get them from your UAE employer?
There are too many examples which may convince other people that it is advantageous to pay your UAE debts, and keep their doors open to you. Having UAE work experience is a big advantage. Why should someone just throw it away and stay without references.
Last edited by kazic; Aug 22nd 2009 at 9:45 am.
Aug 22nd 2009, 9:46 am
#178
Go on.. Pull my finger..
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: Dubai
Posts: 5,726
Re: OK So we did a runner......
For me, a non-native US Citizen, it was never a question of where I came from, but where I might be going if I didn't pay Standard. Going to jail and having my children be sent into state care because I got caught between a rock and a hard place was too unthinkable. I, unfortunately, don't have people who can pay off my debts back in the States, so it was a question of going to jail forever, or getting myself and my children out when I could.
Falling on hard times and not being able to pay back debt isn't a question of morality. Woe be the man or woman who doesn't ever face redundancies or layoffs in their field—you stay a working adult long enough and it will come around your way. Hopefully your high-minded morality will get you out of your troubles.
Not paying back a debt is NOT tantamount to theft. Walking into the bank and removing cash at gunpoint is theft. Not paying a debt isn't even a crime in my mind. It doesn't even rise to the level of speeding or littering. It's a non-issue where I'm concerned.
As for travel and moving about the world: it hasn't affected it in the least. I travel to the EU all of the time, have been to Thailand once since I left, the Caribbean regularly. My experience with moving around the world is that they don't do credit checks on you at passport control.
I'm trying to talk about the realities of what happens when you do what I did, not some idealized society where...I don't even know. I have a hard time understanding what world some of you live in. It isn't the same world I live in where I need to worry about: health insurance for a child who has chronic asthma; debt from my school loans lest the government garnish my wages; putting my children through college in a few short years; paying off a mortgage so we have a roof over our head; paying the government 40% of everything I earn. And you say I need to start, now, losing sleep over a BANKER. Eff you. I have real, adult problems to worry about.
It amazes me that some people would consider it a question of morality. I'll bet you sleep with prostitutes and justify their imprisonment by claiming they are just operating on the free market. Cognitive dissonance.
Grow up. This isn't a question of me being an American, or lacking moral fiber. I was presented with two options: one was terrible, the other was palatable. Imagine which one I took. If you get off your high horse for a bit and stop preaching about what a terrible person I am you would be able to think critically about a perverse incentive system that forces people to take on Dhs150k and then presents them with a choice like going to jail or running out on obligations.
As for not paying back a debt now that I can: I apply the same cost/benefit analysis the banks do when they evaluate me as a risk. It isn't personal, I'm not thumbing my nose at them for the sake of feeling smug. I'll say it again: it's a business decision. If it costs less to fight it, I will. Otherwise I'll pay it back. The money I save will be going to a different bank in the form of a mortgage payment.
I drive 15 year-old Toyota, live in a modest house and work 50 weeks a year. Try to hold onto that outrage for a banker who jacks a family's interest rates up to usurist levels and then puts them out when they can't pay off a manipulated loan—a banker, mind you, who got a bonus for doing it.
Children, please be quiet. The adult are talking.
Falling on hard times and not being able to pay back debt isn't a question of morality. Woe be the man or woman who doesn't ever face redundancies or layoffs in their field—you stay a working adult long enough and it will come around your way. Hopefully your high-minded morality will get you out of your troubles.
Not paying back a debt is NOT tantamount to theft. Walking into the bank and removing cash at gunpoint is theft. Not paying a debt isn't even a crime in my mind. It doesn't even rise to the level of speeding or littering. It's a non-issue where I'm concerned.
As for travel and moving about the world: it hasn't affected it in the least. I travel to the EU all of the time, have been to Thailand once since I left, the Caribbean regularly. My experience with moving around the world is that they don't do credit checks on you at passport control.
I'm trying to talk about the realities of what happens when you do what I did, not some idealized society where...I don't even know. I have a hard time understanding what world some of you live in. It isn't the same world I live in where I need to worry about: health insurance for a child who has chronic asthma; debt from my school loans lest the government garnish my wages; putting my children through college in a few short years; paying off a mortgage so we have a roof over our head; paying the government 40% of everything I earn. And you say I need to start, now, losing sleep over a BANKER. Eff you. I have real, adult problems to worry about.
It amazes me that some people would consider it a question of morality. I'll bet you sleep with prostitutes and justify their imprisonment by claiming they are just operating on the free market. Cognitive dissonance.
Grow up. This isn't a question of me being an American, or lacking moral fiber. I was presented with two options: one was terrible, the other was palatable. Imagine which one I took. If you get off your high horse for a bit and stop preaching about what a terrible person I am you would be able to think critically about a perverse incentive system that forces people to take on Dhs150k and then presents them with a choice like going to jail or running out on obligations.
As for not paying back a debt now that I can: I apply the same cost/benefit analysis the banks do when they evaluate me as a risk. It isn't personal, I'm not thumbing my nose at them for the sake of feeling smug. I'll say it again: it's a business decision. If it costs less to fight it, I will. Otherwise I'll pay it back. The money I save will be going to a different bank in the form of a mortgage payment.
I drive 15 year-old Toyota, live in a modest house and work 50 weeks a year. Try to hold onto that outrage for a banker who jacks a family's interest rates up to usurist levels and then puts them out when they can't pay off a manipulated loan—a banker, mind you, who got a bonus for doing it.
Children, please be quiet. The adult are talking.
And people wonder how it was that the US managed to f*&k up the world for the past 12 months....
Aug 22nd 2009, 9:47 am
#179
Just Joined
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 13
Re: OK So we did a runner......
I did not say that. I said you may get some accident in Malayisa (for example) unrelated to your issue in Dubai. You may end up at court because of some traffic accident oe who knows why...
I was not talking about database of debtors. I was talking about database of court convictions and database of people sought by UAE. You said that rapist are being treated the same way as debtors. So, you must be completely sure that Malaysia does not get any agreement with UAE about such database. Not now, but 10 or 20 years in the future... Otherwise the rapist would have easy life...
If Malaysia request info from the countries you lived before, you can face serious sentence. There are cases where bribing simply does not help. I mentioned Malaysia but it can be any other country.
Example 2: You get a great job in Russia (or in India, or in China). You need to settle down for 1-5 year and need UAE police report in order to get your long-term visa. How are you going to sort this out? You do not need this job now, but let say you get it in 10 years. If not Russia, than some other country.... Most of them want the police reports before they issue you a long term visa (immigrant or non-immigrant).
Example 3: You have South African passport and want to apply for American greencard. How are you going to convince Americans that your court conviction is just a joke? Do you really believe you will get a greencard?
Example 4: You have an UK passport and want to travel to USA. The visa waiver program is only available to people without court convictions. So, you need to apply to visa explaining how that issue is not a big deal. Of course you may missuse American rules and hope there will be no information telling anything against you... Even Indian movie stars get detained at US airport because of some minor issue related to their family name.
Example 5: You travel to one of the GCC? Would you dare to take a trip to Qatar or Saudi Arabia? Now? What about in 10 years?
There are too many examples which may convince other people that it is advantageous to pay your debts.
I was not talking about database of debtors. I was talking about database of court convictions and database of people sought by UAE. You said that rapist are being treated the same way as debtors. So, you must be completely sure that Malaysia does not get any agreement with UAE about such database. Not now, but 10 or 20 years in the future... Otherwise the rapist would have easy life...
If Malaysia request info from the countries you lived before, you can face serious sentence. There are cases where bribing simply does not help. I mentioned Malaysia but it can be any other country.
Example 2: You get a great job in Russia (or in India, or in China). You need to settle down for 1-5 year and need UAE police report in order to get your long-term visa. How are you going to sort this out? You do not need this job now, but let say you get it in 10 years. If not Russia, than some other country.... Most of them want the police reports before they issue you a long term visa (immigrant or non-immigrant).
Example 3: You have South African passport and want to apply for American greencard. How are you going to convince Americans that your court conviction is just a joke? Do you really believe you will get a greencard?
Example 4: You have an UK passport and want to travel to USA. The visa waiver program is only available to people without court convictions. So, you need to apply to visa explaining how that issue is not a big deal. Of course you may missuse American rules and hope there will be no information telling anything against you... Even Indian movie stars get detained at US airport because of some minor issue related to their family name.
Example 5: You travel to one of the GCC? Would you dare to take a trip to Qatar or Saudi Arabia? Now? What about in 10 years?
There are too many examples which may convince other people that it is advantageous to pay your debts.
I am trying to tell people what my life has been like since I took option two. When I was trying to decide how to deal with my troubles all I could find on this forum were messages from people like you. Wild speculation. What I am offering, if you will listen, are the facts of what happened to me after I left.
You can agree with my choice, not agree, think I'm immoral, think I did the right thing. I don't care. I had adult responsibilities to think about. I know there are other people in the UAE who are going through what I went through and I am speaking to them.
Kazic, I'm proud of you for living a moral irreproachable life. You should have it carved on your tombstone. I, however, screwed up while I was in Dubai. I got into debt, got made redundant and had to choose between jail for me, which carried the special punishment of my children going to state care, and leaving the country.
If you want to hear what might happen someday, listen to Kazic. If you want to hear what did happen to me... oh, nevermind.
Aug 22nd 2009, 9:55 am
#180
Go on.. Pull my finger..
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: Dubai
Posts: 5,726
Re: OK So we did a runner......
I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. Here is your choice if you get into debt you cannot pay in the UAE: 1) go to jail, or 2)do a runner.
I am trying to tell people what my life has been like since I took option two. When I was trying to decide how to deal with my troubles all I could find on this forum were messages from people like you. Wild speculation. What I am offering, if you will listen, are the facts of what happened to me after I left.
You can agree with my choice, not agree, think I'm immoral, think I did the right thing. I don't care. I had adult responsibilities to think about. I know there are other people in the UAE who are going through what I went through and I am speaking to them.
Kazic, I'm proud of you for living a moral irreproachable life. You should have it carved on your tombstone. I, however, screwed up while I was in Dubai. I got into debt, got made redundant and had to choose between jail for me, which carried the special punishment of my children going to state care, and leaving the country.
If you want to hear what might happen someday, listen to Kazic. If you want to hear what did happen to me... oh, nevermind.
I am trying to tell people what my life has been like since I took option two. When I was trying to decide how to deal with my troubles all I could find on this forum were messages from people like you. Wild speculation. What I am offering, if you will listen, are the facts of what happened to me after I left.
You can agree with my choice, not agree, think I'm immoral, think I did the right thing. I don't care. I had adult responsibilities to think about. I know there are other people in the UAE who are going through what I went through and I am speaking to them.
Kazic, I'm proud of you for living a moral irreproachable life. You should have it carved on your tombstone. I, however, screwed up while I was in Dubai. I got into debt, got made redundant and had to choose between jail for me, which carried the special punishment of my children going to state care, and leaving the country.
If you want to hear what might happen someday, listen to Kazic. If you want to hear what did happen to me... oh, nevermind.
I admit to not having read most of what you have typed for one reason....
To state that non-payment of debt is not a crime completely nullifies any other point you may have.