johnyzee

This is my first time posting here - great forum.

I am a software engineer planning a relocation to Saudi Arabia and I am wondering how much of a problem I will have with not being able to read/speak Arabic?

I know other places in the Middle East (e.g. Dubai) are very international, but how about Saudi Arabia proper? Will I be able to talk to recruitment agencies and potential employers? Will I be able to conduct a relatively normal life in the Kingdom without being able to speak the language? I have a vague idea that English is not very common in Saudi Arabia, is this true?

I should mention that I will be moving there with my wife and 8-months old son, neither of who speak Arabic (my son is excused).

Any advice is greatly appreciated!

Face81

hi johnzee. welcome to the forum!

Not being able to speak arabic shud not prove to be a hinderance in Saudi as there are plenty of expats in the kingdom. I have never bee, so I cant give u proper feedback, but some of the other forumer will be able to enlighten u.

Do a search on the site for Saudi threads if u want more info on Saudi.

Enjoy the site and I am sure sum1 will help u out soon.

Tami2

Don't take this the wrong way....but...
ARE YOU NUTS! Why in the world would you even consider moving to Saudi Arabia, let alone take your wife and baby there. Please take the time to read through some of the previous threads about Saudi Arabia before you decide to take that step. There are many of us who post here that have lived in KSA and are just happy that we got out in one piece. I lived there for four years while my husband worked for the national chemical company. Our children attended a private American school and life was wonderful until the bombings started in May 2003. We finally got out in June 2004 and I wouldn't go back for any amount of money. Another poster here, Jammy_Dodgers, feels the same way.

For the sake of your family, just check it out more thoroughly. The financial advantages of working in the Kingdom are not worth your safety or ultimately, your life. And even the quality of life, living in a barbed-wire covered compound guarded by machine-gun toting 18 year old Saudi boys, half of whom are Al Qeda sympathizers, has deteriorated so much in the last two years, it's just not worth it.

End of rant. Sorry, but I feel so strongly about this. Good Luck, Tami

Face81

talk about letting him doen gently!

I didnt say anything cos he sounded so keen on the place....... good that u sounded him off though.

bad Saudi, Bad!!!!!

johnyzee

I did a search on "saudi" after posting and learned that some of you feel very strongly about the security situation in KSA.

I was surprised by this, not because I have any experience or evidence to suggest you are wrong, but because I have never encountered such strong criticism of the working environment of KSA before. I have several friends who have been working there, most, however, are of Middle Eastern descent, so obviously their experience with regards to the problems you are describing have limited validity for me, being a white European. Frankly after reading your accounts I am having second thoughts, and I most certainly will investigate further.

My reason for choosing KSA was our wish to experience a more traditional Middle Eastern environment. Dubai being the more obvious choice seems really cool and an excellent place to live and work, but also quite westernized. I was hoping to find a more traditional environment while still sustaining the kind of job I am qualified for and KSA seemed to fit the bill (although "a tad" conservative and politically questionable).

Tami2

Thank you, thank you very much! (With an Elvis accent)
Good Face! Good boy!

Tami2

As you said, some of us do feel very strongly about KSA. I truely LOVED it my first three years there and it was a Wonderful place to raise our kids (4 of them, LOL), but when everything exploded on May 12, 2003, it was no longer the wonderful Magic Kingdom we loved. My (Saudi) employer was killed that night along with a lot of other innocent people. The ensuing bombings, kidnappings, hostage-takings, you name it, made it really SCARY to live there. Espcially with children. What kind of life is it for a child to pass tanks and machine guns several times a day just walking around their compound or going to the grocery store. Some people will tell you that it's still OK as long as you keep a low profile and vary you transportation routes and check under your vehicle each time you come back to it (looking for bombs), but do you really want to live that way? We didn't, so that's why we've made the move to Dubai. I agree that Dubai is not the "traditional" old-world atmosphere and if that's what you are looking for, I would suggest Muscat, Oman or perhaps Qatar. I have several friends who left Riyadh and went to Muscat and they absolutely Love it there. Still old world but growing infrastructure...just not growing as fast or as far as Dubai.

Of course, it's all up to you, but I'm glad that you are having second thoughts. And by the way, my husband IS middle eastern (Iranian) and he was beaten up by 5 Saudis at a stop-light for absolutely no reason. The police told us that these gangs of young Saudis are often drunk or high and this is their form of entertainment!

Let me know if you have any other questions.
Tami

Frans Wind

High Johnyzee,

As an (ex) employer, and as an employee for several companies in Saudi Arabia, not being able to speak Arabic isn't a major problem. Most business men will understand it and switch over to English. The only place I ever encountered problems not speaking Arabic was Riyahd, the capitol. But with what's going on in Saudi at the moment? Riyadh is a place to avoid if possible. Cities like Jubail, Dammam, Al Khobar en Jeddah are business orientated, and English is often used.

Please do keep in mind that Saudi Arabia is (on paper) a strickt Muslin country where alcohol and a social life as we know it doesn't excist. But once you get known in the expat comunity? Hell everything is available. I can even recogmend some (off the record, highly illegal) bars in Al Khobar if you want them. One advise I would give you, demand a multiple excit / re-entry visa in your passport. And... demand that you are allowed to keep your own passport with you.

Frans

Frans Wind

And yes, saleries are tax free. The banking system in Saudi Arabia works resonably well. What I would do is get a good (world wide) medical insurrance. If possible avoid Saudi hospitals as they aren't really good.

Learn to bargin, even in a supermarket. Demanding discount is a way of life in Saudi Arabia. Food and cars are dirt cheap. Most employers pay for the accommodation and a car, and will refund you the ticket costs of flying into Saudi Arabia.

If you need to travel alot within Saudi Arabia? A good tip. When buying a car, or when your employer buys one for you? Buy two spare wheels, two jerry cans, one for engine water, one for petrol. And yes, buy a big box of drinking water and keep it in the back of your car. Do not drink local water, not even from the desalination plants.

Never ever stop for an accident or offer first aid help, unless the person(s) are European / Americans. The Saudi's still apply the so called blood laws, meaning you can be held responsible. (Which for a none muslim is not hard to achieve there) I know it requires some addapting to. It happened to me twice, I mean saw car accidents with families involved in it. I just closed my eye's and thought "Ooooo God forgive me and stepped on the gas petal".

Prayer times? Means shops close. Get out on time or you might be hit by a "Mutauwa" (Religious fanatics). Although since the US Special forces have been there during Dessert Storm? These idiots did learn to respect white meat.

Frans

Frans Wind

All together what I wrote might sound scary Johnyzee, but Saudi Arabia really isn't that bad once you adapt to the basic rules there. I've seen more of that country then the average none muslim has. Mecca ofcourse (officially) is off limits to none muslims. But beleave me you won't miss much not seeing it.

As a result, Saudi Arabia in general pays the highest saleries in the Middle East. If you know the system? And your way around in the various black markets? Everything is available, including reasonable quality joints. (Cannabis). I've seen and yes, actively got involved in some of the wildest parties ever while staying there.

Have fun overthere Habibi (Arabic for friend) and enjoy it okay? Say hi to all the "Airline Hotels" in Al Khobar when you find out how to get into them. Yeah... Those girls can be pretty wild.

Frans

Tami2

Good Grief, Frans, what are you going on about! Read this poor guys post again and you'll see he's simply asking about work, languages and bringing his WIFE AND BABY to KSA. Where do you get off telling him to look for booze, bars, drugs and hookers? Maybe you're the one that's on something tonight!! Get a grip, man, not everyone is a degenerate drunken addict looking to score an easy lay! If that's your style, keep it to yourself!

Frans Wind

Hey Tami,

As for what you call "an easy lay"? You might have a point there. As for the booze and drugs? Sorry to say it, but I've seen married couples go way out of line on that one. So do me a favour okay? Breng your body temp down to below boiling point okay? We are living in 2005 where very libberal attitutes in many countries are considered normal. (Not all countries.)

Frans

Tami2

The point is, this guy is just a newbie asking a simple question about language in KSA. He didn't ask or even imply anything about the drugs, booze and women, in fact, he said he'd be bringing his wife and baby. I just think it's rude to throw remarks like that at him. He didn't ask for it and it's enough to scare him away! I know you've been a nice guy in other threads, I'm just shocked at your responses here. And just FYI, there are plenty of us married couples out there who are monogomous and don't drink to excess. The drug issue is just totally rediculous. What kind of example is someone who would do that setting for their children?

Please just think about how your response will be interpreted and what the OP has asked before you reply.

Frans Wind

Point taken, let's leave it at that.

Frans Wind

Johnyzee,

Al to gether I spent 11+ years in Saudi Arabia, still visit it on a regular basis for business. As per my personal experience Riyadh is a hot spot you would want to avoid. In cities like Al Jubail, Dammam, Al Khobar and Jeddah things are totally different. I still have many European / American friends there that wouldn't want to leave Saudi Arabia. Tami's views and experiences? I respect them. Compounds, which Tami is refering to, where places I always tended to avoid. I rented villa's in residential area's. Always lived in perfect harmony with the average Saudi. The only time I was really scared in Saudi Arabia was juring the final pre Desert Storm days when gas masks where handed out. Once again, as per my personal views? If you use your common sence? Trouble can be avoided and Saudi Arabia can be a reasonable place to live.

Frans