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A new world order!

A new world order!

Old May 5th 2012, 10:50 am
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Thumbs down A new world order!

Has anyone else noticed the changing hierarchy of nationalities in Saudi lately? It used to be a very clear pecking order - Americans at the top then us Brits then various nationalities with some of the Asian countries faring the worst. Now, Saudi attitudes seemed to have become somewhat nuanced. The new top dogs are the Saudi co-religionist Muslims who have been born and raised in Western countries. I'm not saying this to offend the Muslims here in Saudi (I'm not suggesting they are being privileged solely on non-merit factors but there are other issues going on too perhaps) or on this forum but I think you increasingly need to tread carefully as a Westerner from a traditional Christian or secular background.

Gone are the days when brown skin meant you were Indian or Sudanese and, therefore, to be looked down on by those who harboured (and sadly still do harbour) prejudicial views about race over here. In fact, just minutes ago, this very computer was being used to post on this forum by a UK-born Muslim who just arrived at our company! Some of the things are quite subtle e.g. the igaamahs get processed more quickly, less workload is piled on at the start and there is a lot of accommodation of personal needs. I can't confirm this but housing seems better catered for and salaries might even be higher for these guys. Westerners can still get packed up and sent home at the drop of hat here and we probably all know of these cases. We are not the pampered breed we sometimes like to think ourselves to be.

I'm not having a go or moaning about this. From the Saudi perspective, I suppose they see these Muslim guys coming in with UK or US education, holding the same level of expertise formerly monopolised by non-Islamic Westerners and on top of this, they have the cultural and often language similarities which they (saudis) probably feel more comfortable with so no wonder they want them to feel at home. And just to be clear, I'm not just talking about Muslims who stayed in the UK for a few years and picked up a British passport then off they went. These people still get classed as Pakistani or Indian although they get better packages because of their UK passports. It is the ones born and raised in the UK and US who speak English as their first language who are the new elite in my opinion. Just my humble observations!
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Old May 5th 2012, 10:53 am
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Default Re: A new world order!

Sorry about the thumbs down icon in the thread title. I don't know why that appeared. As I said, I wasn't bemoaning the situation - just making an observation. I'm just glad to be here at a time when life back home is getting increasingly difficult.
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Old May 5th 2012, 11:19 am
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Default Re: A new world order!

I think you are right here, the tables seem to be turning.
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Old May 5th 2012, 2:06 pm
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Default Re: A new world order!

that was the official aim from the start. They publicly said it and we have been saying the gravy train is slowing down for years.

Next stop- Qatar!
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Old May 5th 2012, 2:39 pm
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Default Re: A new world order!

I agree that this has been gradually happening for some time in Saudi, and to be honest it makes perfect sense as well. If they can get the same expertise as before, but don't have to even pretend to like us infidels then all is well as far as they are concerned.

I'm happy to just leave them to it to be honest, and will be quite content if I never have to go back to Saudi again. However when you work in this region it is kind of difficult for companies to avoid the biggest market so sooner or later I guess a business trip comes on the agenda. I personally dread the day....
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Old May 6th 2012, 11:33 am
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Default Re: A new world order!

Originally Posted by norsk View Post
I agree that this has been gradually happening for some time in Saudi
There is also a recent trend in trying to retain expats by offering well educated (Masters degree or above) western muslim expats to become nationals, provided they give up their existing passports and show a willingness to become Saudified in order to retain customs and traditions. This is particularly true with Bahrain and Qatar. The catch I guess is you have to have similar features of the locals of the country.

Last edited by Desert Shaikh; May 6th 2012 at 11:36 am.
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Old May 7th 2012, 4:47 am
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Default Re: A new world order!

If the British/ US Muslims have the same level of education and expertise then where is the problem? Is it the fact that they are not white? Yes most of the Arabs had the “white man syndrome” for some time and some still suffering from it i.e. where they think the “expert” is white, HE must be good!
However with the rise of well educated, well spoken, good Muslims coming from the West with Western mentality and work ethics, the ME Arabs started to experience something different coming out of the West which is in line with their religious beliefs and culture and they do like it. There is still plenty of work in the ME for white, black, yellow and mixed-race Muslim, Christians, Hindus and Buddhist Westerners and if this new trend by the Saudis is upsetting some people, then they can try other countries where the white man still maintains his rightful status!
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Old May 7th 2012, 4:58 am
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Default Re: A new world order!

Originally Posted by Toon_army View Post
If the British/ US Muslims have the same level of education and expertise then where is the problem? Is it the fact that they are not white? Yes most of the Arabs had the “white man syndrome” for some time and some still suffering from it i.e. where they think the “expert” is white, HE must be good!
However with the rise of well educated, well spoken, good Muslims coming from the West with Western mentality and work ethics, the ME Arabs started to experience something different coming out of the West which is in line with their religious beliefs and culture and they do like it. There is still plenty of work in the ME for white, black, yellow and mixed-race Muslim, Christians, Hindus and Buddhist Westerners and if this new trend by the Saudis is upsetting some people, then they can try other countries where the white man still maintains his rightful status!
As far as I am aware nobody is saying it is a problem. Seems to have hit a nerve with you for some reason though. They are more than welcome to hire whoever they want (of course), and the only people who will be sad are the ones who would have once upon a time have made good money there on expat packages but are no longer wanted...So what? The world moves on..
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Old May 7th 2012, 6:01 am
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Lightbulb Re: A new world order!

Originally Posted by norsk View Post
As far as I am aware nobody is saying it is a problem. Seems to have hit a nerve with you for some reason though. They are more than welcome to hire whoever they want (of course), and the only people who will be sad are the ones who would have once upon a time have made good money there on expat packages but are no longer wanted...So what? The world moves on..
I was wondering what the moral of the post that’s all. Everyone agree (KKK, EDL & BNF excluded) that the world HAS to move on. Discrimination in the work place on basis of race, colour, gender , orientation or creed is outdated and must stop in the ME and elsewhere including the UK. This also applies to those “Indians &Sudanese” mentioned above if they have the required expertise and education level. Bottom line is; if you have what it takes then you should take the job no matter where you come from.
If the Saudis are employing these folks just because they are Muslims this is also wrong and will have a negative impact. Yes as you mentioned, this tendency creates a bigger market pool for employers to choose from not to mention the varieties of candidates on offer and in turn the big packages will shrink as the level of the competition rises so one needs to up one’s game and keep ahead of the rest. On the flipside, Saudization, Qatarization & the whole Arabisation trend where jobs are Nationalises on basis other than competency is also out of order.
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Old May 7th 2012, 9:15 am
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Default Re: A new world order!

Originally Posted by Toon_army View Post
I was wondering what the moral of the post that’s all. Everyone agree (KKK, EDL & BNF excluded) that the world HAS to move on. Discrimination in the work place on basis of race, colour, gender , orientation or creed is outdated and must stop in the ME and elsewhere including the UK. This also applies to those “Indians &Sudanese” mentioned above if they have the required expertise and education level. Bottom line is; if you have what it takes then you should take the job no matter where you come from.
If the Saudis are employing these folks just because they are Muslims this is also wrong and will have a negative impact. Yes as you mentioned, this tendency creates a bigger market pool for employers to choose from not to mention the varieties of candidates on offer and in turn the big packages will shrink as the level of the competition rises so one needs to up one’s game and keep ahead of the rest. On the flipside, Saudization, Qatarization & the whole Arabisation trend where jobs are Nationalises on basis other than competency is also out of order.
Would I be right in thinking that you haven't been in the ME very long?
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Old May 7th 2012, 4:50 pm
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Default Re: A new world order!

Originally Posted by Toon_army View Post
I was wondering what the moral of the post that’s all. Everyone agree (KKK, EDL & BNF excluded) that the world HAS to move on. Discrimination in the work place on basis of race, colour, gender , orientation or creed is outdated and must stop in the ME and elsewhere including the UK. This also applies to those “Indians &Sudanese” mentioned above if they have the required expertise and education level. Bottom line is; if you have what it takes then you should take the job no matter where you come from.
If the Saudis are employing these folks just because they are Muslims this is also wrong and will have a negative impact. Yes as you mentioned, this tendency creates a bigger market pool for employers to choose from not to mention the varieties of candidates on offer and in turn the big packages will shrink as the level of the competition rises so one needs to up one’s game and keep ahead of the rest. On the flipside, Saudization, Qatarization & the whole Arabisation trend where jobs are Nationalises on basis other than competency is also out of order.
Have you heard the term 'ethnic nepotism' before?
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Old May 8th 2012, 5:12 am
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Default Re: A new world order!

The ones i know who got such offers (give up your western passport for a GCC one), did not take it up, only because of the first bit, i.e. they didnt want to give up their present passports
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Old May 8th 2012, 10:42 am
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Default Re: A new world order!

I wasn't trying to create badfeeling by starting this thread but what prompted me to finally post something in this forum was an incident I witnessed very recently. A British guy I know was working in a company in Saudi for years with mostly Arabs and Asian nationalities; he never really got on with them, constantly rubbed them up the wrong way, intentionally or unintentionally I don't know but he was top dog with the Saudi bosses and noone could touch him. Finally, he gets in a spat with a British Muslim guy. Within one week, the man's history. I also mentioned a newly arrived Western Muslim in my company. He's a nice person and I have no issues there but the Saudis hang off his every word and it's as if the sun shines! This is an interesting development and who knows where it's going to end up but I can't say I'm sad to see the Americans getting knocked off their perch!
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Old May 9th 2012, 6:43 am
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Default Re: A new world order!

Originally Posted by Meow View Post
Would I be right in thinking that you haven't been in the ME very long?
Nearly 3 years and counting!
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Old May 9th 2012, 10:04 am
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Default Re: A new world order!

What's the big deal? Brits have been doing this for years with their colonial history where non-whites used to hang on to their every word. Complaining now are we that you are on the receiving end?

Now that a western educated Muslim, who is as intelligent if not more, speaks a bit of Arabic and genuinely gets along with the locals, the Brits panic and complain that they no longer are 'worshipped'

Get over it Brits, you'll be licking up to the Chinese soon...

There was a program about the Mandarin language boom which may eclipse the learning of English in the future too... Now THAT would be a new world order...
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